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Drafido

Repentance and effort

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Perhaps I missed understood something here. When I struggled with certain is isues. smoking pot and stop drinking was was immediate with me when I wanted to find God in my Life. However I had picked up painpill addiction. aside from that I was addicted to pornography since I was a young boy. How ever I was delivered from them but they had a hold on me for a very long time. Don't gasp some in this very worthy ministry board would know about pornography. They might not want to admit it. Its the great closet sin. If not for grace none of us would have hope. We cannot except ourselves for these things. There is a great war between the flesh and The Spirit. If you don't understand that war you probably  don't know What it is to come to Christ. 

The lord knows things deeply and interment about us. We are all individuals with different natures and personalities. We are complex beings and only the Lord knows the heart of a man and how to deal with individual failings. We may not want to admit some of them but I am not afraid because I've been freed from them even thought they followed me even after I turned to Jesus. To our poster my neighbor smoked and was an Alcoholic and he was not able to overcome them. They killed him and I was at his unofficial burial of his ashes.  

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10 hours ago, NickyLouse said:

Israel was saved from Egypt not for anything they did. He made a way for them to cross the Red Sea to escape. They believed in their heart by walking across. There was no promise made on their part. They did not do anything righteous except for believing that they could escape Pharaoh. And so they were saved. If they did not believe that God would prevent them from drowning, they would have stayed in Egypt.

Sanctification began at Mount Sinai when they said "We will do all the Lord has commanded."

Israel was saved from Egypt in bodily sense, but not in spiritual sense, they desired to return to Egypt.

The Lord arranged all, hardening the heart of the hearts of the Egyptians, and opening up the way of the red sea for the Hebrews to escape for their lives.

God warned them if they harden their hearts, forgetting what the Lord had done for them,  that they will surely perish. They did harden their hearts..

 

Exodus 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

Deuteronomy 8:14 Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the Lord thy God, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage;

Deuteronomy 8:19 And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the Lord thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.
20 As the nations which the Lord destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the Lord your God.

1 Samuel 6:6 Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?

 

This is why all of this is testified below, unless you feel you can speak something about it NickyLouise? The whole situation is testified for the world to see, no need to give any private ideas, or add or take away anything. In the wilderness the Hebrews of course right away turned back in their hearts to Egypt.  They would not obey, they wanted other gods as we all remember,(it's famous in movies of course also) rejoicing in the work of their hands. Then God gave them up to worship the host of heaven, they took up the tabernacle of their god remphan and molech,  and they would be carried away to Babylon, as even told to them at that time until complete exile. David then moved by Gods Spirit desired to find the tabernacle for the Lord, but had been a bloody man so was not allowed by God..

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
 

1 Chronicles 22:6 Then he called for Solomon his son, and charged him to build an house for the Lord God of Israel.
7 And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the Lord my God:
8 But the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.

11 hours ago, NickyLouse said:

Israel was saved from Egypt not for anything they did. He made a way for them to cross the Red Sea to escape. They believed in their heart by walking across. There was no promise made on their part. They did not do anything righteous except for believing that they could escape Pharaoh. And so they were saved. If they did not believe that God would prevent them from drowning, they would have stayed in Egypt.

Sanctification began at Mount Sinai when they said "We will do all the Lord has commanded."

Exodus 14:17 And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.

Deuteronomy 8:14 Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the Lord thy God, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage;

Deuteronomy 8:19 And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the Lord thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.
20 As the nations which the Lord destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the Lord your God.

1 Samuel 6:6 Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?

Numbers 20:3 And the people chode with Moses, and spake, saying, Would God that we had died when our brethren died before the Lord!
4 And why have ye brought up the congregation of the Lord into this wilderness, that we and our cattle should die there?
5 And wherefore have ye made us to come up out of Egypt, to bring us in unto this evil place? it is no place of seed, or of figs, or of vines, or of pomegranates; neither is there any water to drink.

Exodus 32:23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;
46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.

1 Chronicles 22:6 Then he called for Solomon his son, and charged him to build an house for the Lord God of Israel.
7 And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the Lord my God:
8 But the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.

As for saving and sanctification, they were never saved in the spiritual sense, as is demonstrated clearly. They were saved only in the most superficial of ways, because they did not know the Lord like David did for example, because of being given the Lords Spirit as a prophet of God. For the others who had no Spirit of Christ in them, it is wll told and testified., unless you think you know a different story .

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/6/2019 at 11:40 AM, Drafido said:
On 6/6/2019 at 11:37 AM, NickyLouse said:

2 things... plain and simple.

  1. Romans 10:9 tells how to be saved. 

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

  1. Matthew 6:24, although it is talking about money specifically, it holds true for anything such as drugs that we hold onto more than God.

No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other.

This is very clever, yet it sidesteps almost everything else that was said in between.

I am sorry. I felt the most important thing that you asked about was whether you were saved or not (point number 1).

Blessings to you and may the Spirit guide your heart.

Edited by NickyLouse
soften
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On 6/3/2019 at 8:58 AM, Drafido said:

Thank you for your reply.  To be honest I feel like my question about repentance wasn't answered fully.  I just want to know if repentance comes from God's gift of grace that enables a person to be renewed and made new or whether there is self effort involved.

Hi Drafido.

 

I believe unsaved people prepare their hearts for repentance BY effort on their end, although this in itself does not save you. Only the blood of Jesus saves you.

Rather, the effort in turning away from sin and seeing just how lost you are by your own self--- that is what causes you to reach out to God for salvation. 

So don't be afraid to put in the effort because the way to repentance isn't waiting for God to zap you but to turn away from evil and start doing good. 

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On 6/2/2019 at 7:14 AM, Drafido said:

I think I was born again 5 years ago but my mind wasn't renewed and I didn't change into a new creature. 

Those born again into Christ are already new creatures. That truth is found in 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Just believe. According to 2 Cor.4:13 "It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe and therefore speak."

The Holy Spirit touched me and left. 

The Holy Spirit is dwelling inside you. That truth is found in Romans 5:5; 8:9; Galatians 4:6. In the old and new testament God promises that He will never leave you.

Just believe. According to 2 Cor.4:13 "It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe and therefore speak."

But I struggle with addiction to alcohol and smoking pot.  I have prayed many times for God to come back into my life but nothing has happened yet, I have prayed to be set free from these addictions but no luck yet. 

Jesus said in John 8:22-23 "If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Jesus said in Mark 11:24 "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

The apostle John said in 1 John 5:113-15 "I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14And this is the confidence that we have before Him: If we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we already possess what we have asked of Him."

Just believe. According to 2 Cor.4:13 "It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe and therefore speak."

I honestly cannot change by my own power. 

God isn't requiring you to. The apostle Paul said in Philippians 2:12-13 "Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure."

Just believe. According to 2 Cor.4:13 "It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe and therefore speak."

So when I think of repentance I am immediately struck with the fact that if God will not come into my life and change me then the type of repentance I would try to accomplish by stopping these bad habits would involve only my effort.  Is this what repentance is supposed to be like or does the power to repent come from God?  

Philippians 1:6 says, "..being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

I also often wonder what it will take for me to be truly born again.  I've seen so many times on this forum and elsewhere Christians giving about 12 different answers on how to be saved.  that is, to put it mildly, just downright confusing.  I can't think 12 different thoughts at one and the same time! 

However many variations you've come across.. the bottom line is. Acts 16:31 "Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."

When Jesus walked the earth and preached to the Jews he said to them that if they didn't believe in Him they would die in their sins.  This seems to suggest to me that being saved doesn't even involve believing in the cross and the resurrection. 

But it does include that. As it says in Romans 4:24 "..but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness-for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our LORD from the dead."

And to top it all off, if God is sovereignly in control and determines by his own will who will be saved and who won't, what is the point in my praying?

That is a inaccurate doctrine. It is written in John 3:16 "God so loves the world that He gave of His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall have eternal life."

It said whosoever believes shall be saved.

1 Timothy 2:4 says that God "who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."

That's all, every sinner, not just some chosen out of all.

I've read many testimonies that show that people are converted by God without their having done anything to merit it at all. 

That's right, the gift of salvation is not based on being worthy of it. It's based on the righteousness of Jesus sacrifice on the behalf of all sinners. For in and of ourselves, none are righteous.

Ephesians 2:8-9 says "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast."

One guy, for example, was simply just sitting in the park and heard a voice ask him, "what is the meaning of life?" and he was led to convert to Christ and became born again etc. 

Testimonies can be encouraging, but no one should base there faith on them. It's the word of God that a person must base their faith.

He didn't believe in Christ or wasn't particularly searching for God.  Yet here I am, praying my heart out every day for over 5 years and there is no sign of God.  

It's good that you ask God in prayer, but there is also the necessity that you exercise your faith, believing in the promises of God that are in the Bible. An effective prayer speaks God's will and promises back to Him in faith.

Otherwise, how can there be an Amen to it. For Amen means "so be it". That is to say "may what I have prayed of God's will, so come to pass."

As it says in 2 Corinthians 1:19-20 "For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us-by me and Silas and Timothy-was not "Yes" and "No," but in him it has always been "Yes." For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God."

Just believe. According to 2 Cor.4:13 "It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe and therefore speak."

This sounds whiny I know but it's just my situation in a nutshell.  Christians say to me "patience patience. 

Patience is being steadfast. But in what? Patience is steadfastly persevering in faith. And, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ.

The word translated "word" in that verse, which in the Greek is rhema which means "spoken". Which means that you can get your faith battery recharged by hearing God's word preached and taught. But it also means that you can speak God's word yourself and get recharged. As Proverbs 4:21 said "Keep God's word in the midst of your heart."

Proverbs 22:17-19 Incline your ear and hear the words of the wise, And apply your mind to my knowledge; For it will be pleasant if you keep them within you, That they may be ready on your lips. So that your trust may be in the LORD."

God works in his own good timing".  But over 5 years??  Something isn't right.

Yes, something isn't right. God has given His word for us to work our faith with him. The Sower has sown the seed of His word on the soil. What kind of soil that each persons heart is, will determine the yield of the crop. It will benefit each of us to determine to be "the good soil" (Luke 8:15).

 

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8 hours ago, naominash said:

Hi Drafido.

 

I believe unsaved people prepare their hearts for repentance BY effort on their end, although this in itself does not save you. Only the blood of Jesus saves you.

Rather, the effort in turning away from sin and seeing just how lost you are by your own self--- that is what causes you to reach out to God for salvation. 

So don't be afraid to put in the effort because the way to repentance isn't waiting for God to zap you but to turn away from evil and start doing good. 

 

Turning from evil and doing good is a wise thing to do,but it won’t save you.

Turning to God as a lost sinner and trusting Jesus to save you will.

i can’t speak for others, but God “ zapped” me. I went from trusting in MY performance, to trusting only in HIS performance.It  changed my life. It was like being “ born again”, one could say.

 

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6 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Turning from evil and doing good is a wise thing to do,but it won’t save you.

Turning to God as a lost sinner and trusting Jesus to save you will.

i can’t speak for others, but God “ zapped” me. I went from trusting in MY performance, to trusting only in HIS performance.It  changed my life. It was like being “ born again”, one could say.

 

After God "zapped" you,  then did you STOP DOING GOOD ?    Or rather,  hopefully, do even more good !?!

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So is it right that repentance requires effort or does God do all the work of salvation?  I can't help but identify with the reformed theological position, though this has some issues.  

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3 hours ago, Drafido said:

So is it right that repentance requires effort or does God do all the work of salvation?  I can't help but identify with the reformed theological position, though this has some issues.  

Faith has to be strong, not weak, and if we want our loved ones to have life and not die, we do effort to study and learn the right ways of the Lord, as this increases faith, and it also increases our love care and concern, as we are giving our heart to something good, not to vanity. That is why we are told not to use our liberty as a cloke of deceit, because all is in our hands, and we have faith to either trust in evil man or in the good Lord God, this is the whole message of the scriptures, from the garden of Eden, death comes by hearing satan, satan says you can do as you please and wont die, God says His judgement are true from the beginning, He said you will surely die, now give the rest of the sentence and outcome as it is clear..

 

Psalm 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
 
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
 
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
 
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

 

1 Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Proverbs 15:28 The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
 
1 Timothy 4:For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.11 These things command and teach.12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/2/2019 at 6:14 AM, Drafido said:

I think I was born again 5 years ago but my mind wasn't renewed and I didn't change into a new creature.  The Holy Spirit touched me and left.  But I struggle with addiction to alcohol and smoking pot.  I have prayed many times for God to come back into my life but nothing has happened yet, I have prayed to be set free from these addictions but no luck yet.  I honestly cannot change by my own power.  So when I think of repentance I am immediately struck with the fact that if God will not come into my life and change me then the type of repentance I would try to accomplish by stopping these bad habits would involve only my effort.  Is this what repentance is supposed to be like or does the power to repent come from God?  

I also often wonder what it will take for me to be truly born again.  I've seen so many times on this forum and elsewhere Christians giving about 12 different answers on how to be saved.  that is, to put it mildly, just downright confusing.  I can't think 12 different thoughts at one and the same time!  When Jesus walked the earth and preached to the Jews he said to them that if they didn't believe in Him they would die in their sins.  This seems to suggest to me that being saved doesn't even involve believing in the cross and the resurrection.  And to top it all off, if God is sovereignly in control and determines by his own will who will be saved and who won't, what is the point in my praying?

I've read many testimonies that show that people are converted by God without their having done anything to merit it at all.  One guy, for example, was simply just sitting in the park and heard a voice ask him, "what is the meaning of life?" and he was led to convert to Christ and became born again etc.  He didn't believe in Christ or wasn't particularly searching for God.  Yet here I am, praying my heart out every day for over 5 years and there is no sign of God.  

This sounds whiny I know but it's just my situation in a nutshell.  Christians say to me "patience patience.  God works in his own good timing".  But over 5 years??  Something isn't right.

I think you are fine:) You have confessed and we can pray for you to be completely healed and restored. I'll put you on my pray list and pray for you and I'm sure others will. It depends on his purposes for you in Christ and the gifts you are given to serve the body of Christ. He walked with and taught his diciples 3.5 years to prepare them, Peter needed extra time to be prepared so he let Satan sift him and then He knocked Paul straight to his knees on the road to damascus, in a right her, right now way.

Look at your thumb print. You are a one of a kind multi facided creation made to display some aspect of his character and Glory. It takes millions of us to display a true image of his attributes, character and Glory.

My Sister was an iv meth addict, she used heroine to come down when she really needed sleep, she was prostituting for drugs and from that moment she called out to Jesus to save her until she was able to stay drug free was 13 years.

She is totally free now for 15 years and has an ammazing testimony and works at a womans abuse shelter, she once stayed in. The Lord did a lot of changing and healing  in that 13 years , dealt with her self worth, helped her see how valuable and precious she was. He Wooed her till she knew she was loved, delt with the wounds from sexual assults, bitterness, self loathing, shame, guilt, all the should of, would of, could of, regrets, restored her relationships with her kids when she was still struggling with drugs allowed her to stop the lieing and be honest with herself and them about her struggle and the abandonment of her kids, unforgiveness, hatred, that 13 years just didn't free her from that addiction which was what she needed him the most to help with she thought the addiction was causing all the other problems she has. But, the addiction was a symptom of those other problems. It was what she thought was the obvious she needed fixed first. Jesus had a different list.

 I have heard it said that he leaves a standard so when we look back we can see all he has done. In a sand pit they leave a pillar that marks ground level when they start. Without that pillar sticking out like a sore thumb, no one would ever realize how much digging and work they have done.

The Lord often walks us through these things and the path out of sin can be as long as the path into sin. So we can see the path and be an encouragement and extend to others the mercy we ourself received. And be good at turning people around before they go as far as we went or encouraging those we see walking home to the fathers house.

The whole idea that you know he will and can and need His Spirit for the everlasting work not just a show is what makes me confident you are fine. I'd rather have those obvious ones instead of hidden ones that let me pretend in front of others he is completing a work in me, I never let him start.

 

Edited by Reinitin

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