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iamlamad

Much disagreement with this passage

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1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

There is a point about your view (Lamad) that is being ignored.   One of the 24 elders recognized that the LAMB was entitled to open the book AND read its contents,  and not just remove the seals,  BEFORE he actually took the book from the one sitting on the throne.   But it wasn't UNTIL he actually took the book from his hand that the elders proclaimed that he is worthy to open the book.   

The PuP 

Hi Pup,

In Rev 4:11, the four living creatures and the twenty four elders all worship the ONE on the throne saying:

Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they [fn]existed, and were created.”
The elders proclaimed right here that the ONE sitting on the throne is WORTHY.
 

 

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15 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Pup,

In Rev 4:11, the four living creatures and the twenty four elders all worship the ONE on the throne saying:

Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they [fn]existed, and were created.”
The elders proclaimed right here that the ONE sitting on the throne is WORTHY.
 

 

*[[Rev 5:12]] KJV* Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain TO RECEIVE power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

 

 Joe,  I am not sure of your point.  But this discourse is not simply about finding someone WORTHY.  Nor is it about being worthy to OPEN the book.   But opening the book and loosing the seals is all about ENTITLEMENT TO RECEIVE the purtenances and privileges that came with Jesus's resurrection from the dead.   

*[[Act 17:31]] KJV* Because he [GOD THE FATHER]  hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Jesus is the instrument of the forthcoming day of judgment.   But the FATHER is the one who will orchestrate when and what that day will encompass.   A general of the highest ranking, though he is thoroughly qualified to execute his office,  is still subject to the wishes of the commander -in- chief.   Until the Father issues the command to execute (THAT DAY) Jesus awaits with full qualifications (he arose from the dead) of worthiness to execute the Father's wishes.   That worthiness pertaining to the rights and purtenances IS attached to opening the book that is held in the Father's possession. 

Be Blessed, 

The PuP 

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18 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

You have emphatically stated in the past that there is ONLY ONE WORTHY to open the scroll. And that is JESUS!

Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they [fn]existed, and were created.”
If there is only ONE WORTHY to open the scroll, then this is Jesus on the throne.

If you follow John's narrative, He was on earth while the Father was on the throne. The strong angel cried out "who is worthy" and John wrote "no man was found..." showing is that AT THAT POINT IN TIME Jesus had not yet risen from the dead to become the Redeemer. But TIME PASSES ON. Jesus rose from the dead, and either was found worthy or declared Himself worthy. In any case He "prevailed" over death by rising and then becoming the Redeemer of mankind.  Jesus was NOT ON the throne. He was NOT in the throne room just after He rose from the Dead. Remember, He talked with Mary.  It is God the FATHER on the throne.

But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
 
Since no one was seen at the Father's right hand, it was the Father on the throne; and since "no man was found" Jesus at that time was still under the earth. However, after Jesus sent Mary away, He ascended. John got to see that moment that He arrived back in heaven after sending Mary away.  By the way, God our Father was NOT worthy to open the seals. He did not die on the cross and raise from the dead.   It is kind of a moot point because they are ONE being. 

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2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

If you follow John's narrative, He was on earth while the Father was on the throne. The strong angel cried out "who is worthy" and John wrote "no man was found..." showing is that AT THAT POINT IN TIME Jesus had not yet risen from the dead to become the Redeemer. But TIME PASSES ON. Jesus rose from the dead, and either was found worthy or declared Himself worthy. In any case He "prevailed" over death by rising and then becoming the Redeemer of mankind.  Jesus was NOT ON the throne. He was NOT in the throne room just after He rose from the Dead. Remember, He talked with Mary.  It is God the FATHER on the throne.

But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
 
Since no one was seen at the Father's right hand, it was the Father on the throne; and since "no man was found" Jesus at that time was still under the earth. However, after Jesus sent Mary away, He ascended. John got to see that moment that He arrived back in heaven after sending Mary away.  By the way, God our Father was NOT worthy to open the seals. He did not die on the cross and raise from the dead.   It is kind of a moot point because they are ONE being. 
"If you follow John's narrative, He was on earth while the Father was on the throne."
 
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
 
"The strong angel cried out "who is worthy" and John wrote "no man was found..."
 
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

"Jesus rose from the dead, and either was found worthy or declared Himself worthy"

Psalms 89:19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

 

"Jesus was NOT ON the throne. He was NOT in the throne room just after He rose from the Dead. Remember, He talked with Mary.  It is God the FATHER on the throne."

God gave the testimony and sent it by His angel to show unto His servants. Jesus Christ sent His angel to testify these things to us.

 

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
 
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

"it was the Father on the throne"

It is the throne of God and of the Lamb. One throne, one baptism one Lord, one everything. HIS servants shall serve Him. WHOSE?

 

 Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

 

The Son of man(Jesus Christ Lord of Heaven) gave to every one to do their work, and gave authority to HIS SERVANTS, but henceforth He called them not servants, as He made all known of the Father, which is His name too..

Mark 13:34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

"Jesus at that time was still under the earth."

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was NOT POSSIBLE THAT HE SHOULD BE HOLDEN OF IT.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath LIFE IN HIMSELF; so hath he given to the Son to have LIFE IN HIMSELF;

 
"God our Father was NOT worthy to open the seals. He did not die on the cross and raise from the dead"
 
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because HE laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
 
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
 
This is a success story, not one that is not telling the glory, this is the glorious end of this bad world. Why was no man found worthy? Because all men were found to be worthy of death. All men sin and end up in death, worthy of it. Now the Lamb made us kings and priests unto our God, made us worthy when we were not worthy, because only He was found worthy, as He had always the Holy Spirit and spotless blood with the LIFE IN IT, because HE is the LIFE, remember....
 
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: FOR THE BLOOD IS THE LIFE; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
 
Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
Revelation 1:And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
 
Revelation 5:And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

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10 minutes ago, gordon7777 said:
"If you follow John's narrative, He was on earth while the Father was on the throne."
 
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
 
"The strong angel cried out "who is worthy" and John wrote "no man was found..."
 
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

"Jesus rose from the dead, and either was found worthy or declared Himself worthy"

Psalms 89:19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

 

"Jesus was NOT ON the throne. He was NOT in the throne room just after He rose from the Dead. Remember, He talked with Mary.  It is God the FATHER on the throne."

God gave the testimony and sent it by His angel to show unto His servants. Jesus Christ sent His angel to testify these things to us.

 

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
 
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

"it was the Father on the throne"

It is the throne of God and of the Lamb. One throne, one baptism one Lord, one everything. HIS servants shall serve Him. WHOSE?

 

 Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

 

The Son of man(Jesus Christ Lord of Heaven) gave to every one to do their work, and gave authority to HIS SERVANTS, but henceforth He called them not servants, as He made all known of the Father, which is His name too..

Mark 13:34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

"Jesus at that time was still under the earth."

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was NOT POSSIBLE THAT HE SHOULD BE HOLDEN OF IT.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath LIFE IN HIMSELF; so hath he given to the Son to have LIFE IN HIMSELF;

 
"God our Father was NOT worthy to open the seals. He did not die on the cross and raise from the dead"
 
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because HE laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
 
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
 
This is a success story, not one that is not telling the glory, this is the glorious end of this bad world. Why was no man found worthy? Because all men were found to be worthy of death. All men sin and end up in death, worthy of it. Now the Lamb made us kings and priests unto our God, made us worthy when we were not worthy, because only He was found worthy, as He had always the Holy Spirit and spotless blood with the LIFE IN IT, because HE is the LIFE, remember....
 
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: FOR THE BLOOD IS THE LIFE; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
 
Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
Revelation 1:And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
 
Revelation 5:And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

That was a good post with lots of scripture - but was it suppose to answer anything?

I have a question: while Jesus was on the earth - for approx. 32 years, could He have been seen at that same time "at the right hand of the Father" in heaven - OR - did He lay aside His omnipresence when He took on the flesh of man?

Another question: where was the Holy Spirit a moment before Jesus sent Him down? 

Another question: What did Jesus do after He sent Mary away, having told her not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended? 

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14 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

"God our Father was NOT worthy to open the seals. He did not die on the cross and raise from the dead"

Yahuweh (God) SET THE SEALS.    

 

As a King might do as He Pleases,   as there is no one greater to swear by or to set the seals.

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17 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

That was a good post with lots of scripture - but was it suppose to answer anything?

I have a question: while Jesus was on the earth - for approx. 32 years, could He have been seen at that same time "at the right hand of the Father" in heaven - OR - did He lay aside His omnipresence when He took on the flesh of man?

Another question: where was the Holy Spirit a moment before Jesus sent Him down? 

Another question: What did Jesus do after He sent Mary away, having told her not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended? 

I don't think it was a good post.  Too many errors. (not near enough time nor concern at this time to try to address them other than the one just posted a couple minutes ago.

The questions are potentially 'good' questions,   which can ONLY be answered by the Father from Heaven.   (not possible on forums to give nor to receive understanding,   except the Father grant it Himself, as written, from Heaven.

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16 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

That was a good post with lots of scripture - but was it suppose to answer anything?

I have a question: while Jesus was on the earth - for approx. 32 years, could He have been seen at that same time "at the right hand of the Father" in heaven - OR - did He lay aside His omnipresence when He took on the flesh of man?

Another question: where was the Holy Spirit a moment before Jesus sent Him down? 

Another question: What did Jesus do after He sent Mary away, having told her not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended? 

I was reading what all are struggling with here.


Look at what Jesus reveals here, about the thief, today you will be WITH ME in PARADISE. But the thief did not die that day, his leg was broke as testified for those others crucified with Jesus, because Jesus spoke in Spirit, you are in the Kingdom of Heaven, the same Kingdom Jesus Christ is.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

More confusion over the Son being subject. Subject is one, gathered together in one, those in Heaven and earth subdued to Him, He gathers together in one ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, the WORD who made all things, all things were created by Him(Christ) and for Him( Christ) BY His blood(the Son Jesus Christ) made peace to reconcile ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF, ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN ALSO, at the name of JESUS all bow in HEAVEN, this is the Father in the Son, and the Son in us, all perfect in ONE together. We know Him no more after the flesh, now Spirit, the Spirit of truth who the world cant receive, but He dwelled with the disciples, and was told to be in them soon, and He did come to them.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Other confusion about Jesus standing at the right hand of God. Think spirit then, God is Spirit. satan stood at the right hand to resist, satan is spirit and also is inside man, then you know right hand means Spirit, means inside, right hand shows the strength measurement..

Psalm 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

Zechariah 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

 

Are you sure you have questions to ask ?

 

Jesus Christ was always in Heaven, no man came down, only He did, He cant leave where He always was and always will be.

 

The Holy Spirit is told about in this post.

 

The reason to not touch me as Jesus fulfilled all righteousness, He has to show us He is the full three days until the assension, but this is for man to see, as man blieves with human eyes, not with the heart of the Spirit.

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12 minutes ago, gordon7777 said:

I was reading what all are struggling with here.


Look at what Jesus reveals here, about the thief, today you will be WITH ME in PARADISE. But the thief did not die that day, his leg was broke as testified for those others crucified with Jesus, because Jesus spoke in Spirit, you are in the Kingdom of Heaven, the same Kingdom Jesus Christ is.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

More confusion over the Son being subject. Subject is one, gathered together in one, those in Heaven and earth subdued to Him, He gathers together in one ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, the WORD who made all things, all things were created by Him(Christ) and for Him( Christ) BY His blood(the Son Jesus Christ) made peace to reconcile ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF, ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN ALSO, at the name of JESUS all bow in HEAVEN, this is the Father in the Son, and the Son in us, all perfect in ONE together. We know Him no more after the flesh, now Spirit, the Spirit of truth who the world cant receive, but He dwelled with the disciples, and was told to be in them soon, and He did come to them.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Other confusion about Jesus standing at the right hand of God. Think spirit then, God is Spirit. satan stood at the right hand to resist, satan is spirit and also is inside man, then you know right hand means Spirit, means inside, right hand shows the strength measurement..

Psalm 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

Zechariah 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

 

Are you sure you have questions to ask ?

 

Jesus Christ was always in Heaven, no man came down, only He did, He cant leave where He always was and always will be.

 

The Holy Spirit is told about in this post.

 

The reason to not touch me as Jesus fulfilled all righteousness, He has to show us He is the full three days until the assension, but this is for man to see, as man blieves with human eyes, not with the heart of the Spirit.

Another good sidestep without really addressing the issues at hand.  

Jesus DID leave heaven. He laid aside being omnipresent when He took on flesh. A human baby cannot be everywhere at the same time!  (of course God the Father did not lay that attribute aside.) He DID leave where He had always been and then returned where He had always been 32 years later.  God the Father stayed on the throne while Jesus came to earth. God the Holy Spirit remained everywhere while Jesus came to earth. In other words ONLY the second person of the trinity laid aside His godly attributes.

In chapter 4 the Holy Spirit was seen in the throne room, and in chapter 5 Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down.

The ONLY point I was making about Mary is that Jesus said He had not yet ascended so probably ascended as soon as He sent Mary away. I think for the most part, chapters 4 & 5 are talking about timing and the movement of time - for the purpose of establishing 32 AD as the time the first seal was opened.

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I did answer about worthy also, and others here had answered OK about that, that all men on earth were found to be guilty before God, and then Jesus Christ is not guilty, never was going to be guilty, the Lords word is truth, the Spirit of truth, it just has to be proven to faithless man. But if you want to keep thinking Jesus Christ was only worthy once He died OK, but He was always worthy, the only difference is man is able to believe it when he sees it.

 

John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

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