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Is it correct to look at salvation this way?


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Is it correct to look at salvation this way? That we've accrued a debt through our sins which must be paid with our death and eventual place in the lake of fire and that Jesus has completely paid our debt with His death and shed blood on the cross and that He was buried and rose again on the third day and that through faith in Him and what He's done (His death and shed blood on the cross, His burial, and His resurrection on the third day) we are saved?

Edited by LeeGreenForest
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Salvation is a deliverance from danger or suffering. To save us is to deliver or protect. We are saved from wrath. Also from God's judgment of sin. 

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3 hours ago, LeeGreenForest said:

Is it correct to look at salvation this way? That we've accrued a debt through our sins which must be paid with our death and eventual place in the lake of fire and that Jesus has completely paid our debt with His death and shed blood on the cross and that He was buried and rose again on the third day and that through faith in Him and what He's done (His death and shed blood on the cross, His burial, and His resurrection) we are saved?

Hi, Lee. Wow, that's a pretty big one sentence post! King David mentions in Psalm 51:5  Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin my mother did conceive me. KJV So he understood the original sin of Adam. But your statement is pretty much right on other wise. I can see you're learning by the past few questions posted on the forums here. Way to go, brother. God bless!

Shalom, 

David/BeauJangles

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2 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

Hi, Lee. Wow, that's a pretty big one sentence post! King David mentions in Psalm 51:5  Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin my mother did conceive me. KJV So he understood the original sin of Adam. But your statement is pretty much right on other wise. I can see you're learning by the past few questions posted on the forums here. Way to go, brother. God bless!

Shalom, 

David/BeauJangles

I might be having trouble believing in my heart what I need to believe in order to be saved due to being unable to effectively understand everything I need to understand (I guess maybe first in my head and then after that believe it with my heart). If people wanted to sum it up for me or explain it it might be helpful.

Edited by LeeGreenForest
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9 hours ago, LeeGreenForest said:

Is it correct to look at salvation this way? That we've accrued a debt through our sins which must be paid with our death and eventual place in the lake of fire and that Jesus has completely paid our debt with His death and shed blood on the cross and that He was buried and rose again on the third day and that through faith in Him and what He's done (His death and shed blood on the cross, His burial, and His resurrection on the third day) we are saved?

It's worse than accrued debt.  

It is our nature to sin and rebel against God.  Genesis 3 is the account of how man fell from life to death.  

IT IS THE NATURE OF MAN TO DIE; physically, mentally and spiritually.   There is no component of the natural man that survives physical death.  None whatsoever.  At the point of death a human being ceases to exist.   It's body begins to decompose and it's spirit is destroyed.   The spiritual process is described in great detail and generally called the Second Death.   At death the human spirit is totally and utterly destroyed.  It is the nature of man to die; physically and spiritually

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; - - Genesis 6:3a

Since time immemorial, humans have tended to comfort themselves with the false notion that some part of their personality survives physical death.  The Bible opposes this notion.  When the church became a legitimate operation, pagan beliefs in the underworld were adopted for the purpose of fear-mongering.   Hell is a fiction adopted by the church to gain and keep members. 

who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light” - 1 Timothy 6:16

Only God possesses immortality.   Which part of "only God" is not understood?

If only God is immortal, then it logically follows that man's spirit dies at physical death.

BUT God has mercifully granted CONDITIONAL immortality to humanity in His death upon the cross for our sins.  Those who accept God's gracious act of mercy will be endowed with immortal life.  The spirit of those who do not accept God's gift will continue in the flesh and be exterminated at the point of physical death.

THIS IS WHY the gospel message is so powerful.   God has demonstrated His love for humanity by providing conditional immortality to those who repent of their sins and accept God's lordship in their lives.

The fiction of hell represents extended life beyond the grave, albeit a very unpleasant one.   This is unBiblical, but popular with the church that would have us believe a membership card is fire-proof and that its leaders alone, not God, determine one's eternal fate.   Yet many sincere Christians as well as unbelievers swallow this poppycock.

IT IS NOT ABOUT ACCRUED DEBT.   IT IS ABOUT HUMAN NATURE.   It is the nature of all things, including humans to die.  It's just that simple.  Twisting the meaning of common words, such as death, subvert truth.   Those who do so have an agenda to rob us of the truth of things.   Words have meanings.  

Truth is that which is consistent with what is.

Look at any cemetery.  What does the sight reveal to you?   It shows us what death means.  In order to begin to arrive at truth we must adhere to the proper meanings of the words we use.   Corrupting these words to other meanings results in misunderstanding, error and death.

Once upon a time, long ago and far away, a man died.   Three days later He returned to life, an event that was perceived by those who knew Him as extraordinary.  It was so unusual and the hope it presented was so powerful that those who witnessed it were willing to risk their lives to tell others about it.   

If eternal life were a matter of human nature, then it would not have been necessary for Christ to die upon the cross or for those who saw it happen to want to risk their lives and fortunes to tell the world about His resurrection.  It would not be necessary to warn people to repent of their sins and escape the Second Death!

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

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11 hours ago, LeeGreenForest said:

Is it correct to look at salvation this way? That we've accrued a debt through our sins which must be paid with our death and eventual place in the lake of fire and that Jesus has completely paid our debt with His death and shed blood on the cross and that He was buried and rose again on the third day and that through faith in Him and what He's done (His death and shed blood on the cross, His burial, and His resurrection on the third day) we are saved?

Yes, I think you're right. But consider it this way--it will help your witness to others also:

No one disagrees with the gospel’s logic, when presented as perfection vs. imperfection:

1)      Ask someone, “Are you, like me, morally imperfect, because you disobey your inner voice sometimes?”

2)      Say “Since a utopia is a perfect place, if I hurt your feelings or you hurt my feelings, it stops being utopia. Do you know the solution, so we imperfect people can get to Heaven?” People usually respond, “What do you think is the solution?”

3)      Tell them, “The Bible explains that Jesus Christ, being perfect, switched places with us on the cross. He died a horrible death by torture to take our sin, guilt and shame, our imperfection. He then rose from the dead, to prove we can trust Him for eternal life.”

Helpful Verses

·         John 3:16, “God so loved the world He gave His Son, so whoever trusts in Him shall not perish but has everlasting life.” (Trust is clearer than “believe”)

·         2 Corinthians 5:21, “He made Him who was perfect to be imperfect for us, that we might become as perfect as God.” (I cross my hands as I speak, showing Jesus switching places with us)

·         Romans 6:23, “The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

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11 hours ago, LeeGreenForest said:

Is it correct to look at salvation this way? That we've accrued a debt through our sins which must be paid with our death and eventual place in the lake of fire and that Jesus has completely paid our debt with His death and shed blood on the cross and that He was buried and rose again on the third day and that through faith in Him and what He's done (His death and shed blood on the cross, His burial, and His resurrection on the third day) we are saved?

My take: 

It begins with Genesis 3 and a warning that Adam will "surely die". But here's the touchy part: Christianity teaches us that we are a spiritual being occupying an earthly "tent" (the animal meat we call a human being). So when that meat dies, it is not you that dies. YOU die at the second death. It's why it's called "death". 

And starting with Adam, we are doomed to the second death because we are controlled by the desires that come with this body and our willingness to appease its wants. 

But Jesus offers a better way. We may live this life - and live it more abundantly by following his teaching - and enjoy eternal life in the age to come because of his sacrifice. All he asks from us is that we accept this free gift. It's really that simple. 

Whenever you find yourself thinking you are not being good enough to be saved and you need to "get busy" or else. That is known as relying on dead works and violating the one commandment that relates to salvation - believing and accepting that his death is all you need.

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19 hours ago, LeeGreenForest said:

Is it correct to look at salvation this way? That we've accrued a debt through our sins which must be paid with our death and eventual place in the lake of fire and that Jesus has completely paid our debt with His death and shed blood on the cross and that He was buried and rose again on the third day and that through faith in Him and what He's done (His death and shed blood on the cross, His burial, and His resurrection on the third day) we are saved?

With each sin we commit, Satan could torment us forever, but when Jesus was crucified after living a life without sin, we were saved from that. That's how I look at it.

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On 6/4/2019 at 12:12 AM, LeeGreenForest said:

Is it correct to look at salvation this way? That we've accrued a debt through our sins which must be paid with our death and eventual place in the lake of fire and that Jesus has completely paid our debt with His death and shed blood on the cross and that He was buried and rose again on the third day and that through faith in Him and what He's done (His death and shed blood on the cross, His burial, and His resurrection on the third day) we are saved?

 

You have taken 1cor15 1-4 and put it in your own words....believe it, don’t add to it and you are saved.....just like that!

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23 hours ago, LeeGreenForest said:

I might be having trouble believing in my heart what I need to believe in order to be saved due to being unable to effectively understand everything I need to understand (I guess maybe first in my head and then after that believe it with my heart). If people wanted to sum it up for me or explain it it might be helpful.

You believe that Jesus has saved you from your sins by His sacrifice on the cross and believe that He is your Lord: you're saved. Believe it. Know it. God doesn't lie. Jesus said that if you believe in Him: you're saved. Now, as time goes by, God will change your heart and mind in ways that you don't think are even possible right now. You are a new man: a believer. You're a child of The King, a Citizen of Heaven. You're no longer an earthling; you're Heavenly. God lives inside you. He will speak to you and give you everything you need pertaining to life and godliness. He started this work in you and He will finish it. Keep your faith in The God Who lives inside of you, not in the doctrines that you can grasp with your mind but in The Holy Spirit, Who is The Living God by Whom you are sealed unto judgement day. Keep your eyes on Him, not on religion or even your fellow Christians. Focus on Christ and follow Him, everywhere He leads you. He will guide you and direct your steps.

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