R. Hartono Posted June 10, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 772 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 16 hours ago, Last Daze said: According to scripture, keeping the word of His patience is refusing to worship the beast and his image That is the hour of temptation which shall be kept from the Philadelphian church for their patient to wait for the Lord. Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. But for the people who refuse to worship the beast they shall be called tribulation saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted June 10, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 772 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 16 hours ago, Last Daze said: If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints. Revelation 13:10 How could those already taken alive to the cloud to be with the Lord forever, be subject to captivity or be killed by sword ? Those are the foolish virgins left. 1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 10, 2019 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Hi R. Hartono, just reiterating, that I hope to respond probably tomorrow, maybe the next day, doing this as much to remind myself, as for any other reason, talk to you soon, Lord willing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 10, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2019 I don't know how our world will work during the 7 Year Tribulation. Of course those who get the MOB will be able to buy and sell. But they will be guaranteed a seat at the White Throne Judgment. Those who come to Christ during the tribulation will be harassed and tortured. Somewhat like the Jews in the Second World War but worse. The world will go through many disasters and rather rapidly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted June 10, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) On 6/5/2019 at 8:01 AM, R. Hartono said: Luke 17:26-30 "26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." Let's add in Matt. 24's version to better get the gist of the timing. Matt. 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. So it's the Coming of the Son of man {Jesus}, the only question is what's the timing right ? Right all ? Well as my brother hints, there will be no partying, drinking or normalcy going on during the Seals, Trumpets or especially the Vials which happen just before the Second Coming of Jesus, so all of these things must happen at the Rapture, one is taken and one is left. Those left will indeed go through hell on earth, no matter who you are, your plight is determined at that very moment, whether you know it or not those left will be killed or cower in fear at the hands of the Anti-Christ in about 3.5 years time, and many will take the Mark of the Beast. So when the Rapture happens, though they don't know it, the "rains" have started. Those Children of the Light {Church} will not go through the Darkness because we are of the Light {Christ} not of Darkness {Satan}. We will be Raptured to Heaven to Marry the Lamb. That is the only moment in time it could be talking about, it can't be talking about the Second Coming. It's either the Rapture {Pre trib} or nothing. Edited June 10, 2019 by Revelation Man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 11, 2019 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 11, 2019 On 6/9/2019 at 10:48 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said: Hi R. Hartono, just reiterating, that I hope to respond probably tomorrow, maybe the next day, doing this as much to remind myself, as for any other reason, talk to you soon, Lord willing! Well, I was not able to get to that today, hopefully on Wednesday, I am planning to be overly thorough, more detail that needed, but I find I really sympathize with translators!. However, if anyone wants to whet their appetite, the can always check out a video I made many years ago: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 772 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 23 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: Thanks for the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Just now, R. Hartono said: Thanks for the video. Oh sure, that is a short take on it, done a few years back, your inquiry into the topic, has motivated me to reinvestigate, it, spent several hours on it today, it is amazing, and interesting, when you study something out, and find things you were not looking for. I suspect this will end up in a paper of sorts, but will be to large for this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted June 15, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,625 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Online Share Posted June 15, 2019 On 6/8/2019 at 11:43 PM, R. Hartono said: Would both of you be so kind as to explain why Jesus says He will keep us from the hour of temptation ? Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Sure. The evidence here for Pretrib is "keep thee from the hour of temptation,", and the premise is a removal from the scene of the temptation based on this. So then the argument goes that Pretrib is a fact as there is no way we can be here if we are "kept from the hour". But that's not what is being taught here. Jesus likens this 'keep thee from the hour' to 'you have kept the word of my patience'. Nobody did any physical removing of the word of His patience, they KEPT IT. The word for both 'kept' and 'keep' is the Greek term 'tereo'. téreó: to watch over, to guard Definition: to watch over, to guard Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over. HELPS Word-studies 5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact. Nothing in this speaks to a physical removal from one place to another, but tells us we have protection, we are being watched over and guarded. Now one can go on and on about the real or perceived idea of 'ek' but from all my reading this is not a suggestion of transportation to another place but of an 'out from within', meaning whatever object is out was once within. This does not square with Pretrib as the idea of the rapture is never going to be 'within'. Jesus is actually saying, "I will watch over you and guard you while you are near to the temptation." It is my hope then with this formidable guard over us we will not fall to the temptation, none of us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted June 15, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,625 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Online Share Posted June 15, 2019 On 6/9/2019 at 11:40 PM, R. Hartono said: How could those already taken alive to the cloud to be with the Lord forever, be subject to captivity or be killed by sword ? Those are the foolish virgins left. 1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. But only if one interprets this in light of the Pretrib preconception. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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