“Crucified With Christ”

[WordSword]

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http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

 

 

“Putting off the old man” involves that which it does, not that which it is. Believers cannot put of the old man itself, but do, “by the Spirit” put off its “deeds” and “conversations” (Col 3:9; Eph 4:22). This is possible because the old man, or sin nature, is restrained (but not removed) on the Cross (“is crucified” – Rom 6:6) due to our being “crucified with Christ.”

NC

 

 

“Crucified With Christ”

 

The believer is now before the Father, not in the man who was under judgement (old man; sin nature—NC), but in the Man who has glorified Him in bearing the judgment, and consequently, there is not a cloud between his soul and the Father, because the man who caused the distance has been condemned in judgement.

Often a believer though tasting of peace with God, when he finds the working of sin in him tries to correct it as if he could alter himself (old self—NC), overlooking the great and stupendous fact that the Father Himself has removed the man (nullified the dominion of “the old man” – Rom 6:14—NC) in judgement in the death of His own Son. Thus if a believer is really at peace with God it is because his “old man has been crucified with Christ,” and altogether set aside in the judgement of the Cross. If he were clear as to the fact of our old man being crucified with Christ, instead of trying to correct himself (i.e. crucify old man by self—NC), he would look to the Lord Jesus to set him free from the intrusion of the flesh: “Reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

What becomes us now is to have the Lord Jesus before us, and not the correction of the old man (by self—NC). The snare of trying to improve oneself is very common, and it is important to see that, however well-meaning it may be, it is really denial that our old man has been crucified, and a revival (continued ignorance—NC) of that which has been set aside in the Cross. It is plain that if we are clear of the old man we have no man before us but the risen Lord Jesus Christ. “If Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin”; and the more sensible you are of how ready the flesh is to intrude, the more you are cast upon Him.

It is inconceivable that one could have any just apprehension of God’s grace, and yet continue to expect anything from the flesh or in any way to deal with it (referring to the nature itself and not its works, which we are given to deal with in our walk, because we are crucified—NC). It shows how little the revelation of His grace is really accepted in its greatness; because if I know that God Himself has in the Cross removed from His sight the man (old man—NC) who offended, how gladly I should accept His grace!

What fruitless sorrow has one known for months and years in the attempt to improve oneself, until wearied out we cry, “O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death” (not the physical body but the “body of sin” with its “members” (Rom 6:6; Col 3:5)? Then we find there is only one relief, and that is found where we ought to have sought it at first: “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Nothing can be more certain for the believer than that one man is judicially gone in judgement, and that the Lord Jesus alone remains. When I have put on Christ—the best robe—which is “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.” Not only does the blessed Father see me on this ground, one from which He never can change or be diverted, but I now, by the Spirit of God see myself (new self or new nature—NC) on that ground and I can only say, not only our “old man is crucified,” but “I have been crucified”; and if I have been crucified, how can I refer to myself in any sense (concerning self-crucifixion, which is impossible—NC)?

If we observe the history of Christians, we see them trying to improve themselves—their tempers and their evil tendencies, plainly showing they do not truly believe (or misunderstand—NC) in the absolute and simple revelation that “our old man is crucified with Him.”

There is nothing of deeper importance at the commencement of our Christian life than that we should accept, with some apprehension of its greatness, that the man that was under judgment is removed from the eye of God in judgment. We have to ponder in order to realize the magnitude of it, and when we do believe it is the truth, another thing of equal importance is made known to us—that not only is the old man completely removed (concerning its guilt and rein—NC) from the eye of the God, but that by the Holy Spirit we are in Christ a new creation by the power of God. If we keep these two things together we have a great start; one man is gone in judgment and another has been brought in, and this is established to us by the renewing work of the Holy Spirit.

Thus we enter on our new history. Properly, we are not occupied with the flesh (sin nature—NC); though the flesh is still in us (Rom 7:17, 20) we “are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Rom 8:9); and our attention is largely given to walking in the Spirit. We have now a new exercise, even to sow to the Spirit. “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh” (the victory is in the absence of willing to sin - Heb 10:26—NC).

This shows us how intent our eye must be on the risen Lord Jesus; we have nothing to do with that man that has been judged, and the more we realize this the happier we are—judicially freed of the one and by the Spirit of God established in the Other. Everything we do now is done with reference to the Lord Jesus; and not only is “the body for the Lord” (1Co 6:13), but “he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.” We are to act according to His pleasure in the very management of our bodies.

It is remarkable that Romans 12:1, 2 refers to the body; “Present your bodies a living sacrifice . . . be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.” But in 2 Corinthians 3:18, “we all beholding the glory of the Lord—are transformed”; it is the same word (transformed) as in Romans 12:2, and is only used twice in Scripture in reference to us—once as to the physical body, and secondly as to what is imparted to us—what is received from Christ; we are “transformed according to the same image.”

This might be called the exercise of our daily life; our history here is not merely seeking to glorify Him in our bodies, but we should be growing in moral correspondence to Himself, and that by association with Himself; so that the two great truths we started with would be confirmed to us more and more every day—the old man gone from the eye of God and from our eye, and we are new creations established in the Lord Jesus Christ by the ministry of the Spirit of Christ.

- J B Stoney

Edited June 6, 2019 by WordSword

[Pekoudah]

- J B Stoney said: ↑

If we observe the history of Christians, we see them trying to improve themselves—their tempers and their evil tendencies, plainly showing they do not truly believe (or misunderstand—NC) in the absolute and simple revelation that “our old man is crucified with Him.”

This idea begins well and then drops into a fallacy. Crucifixion is not a revelation...but an experience of God that must be entered into in real life. It is God operating on us...as Paul said by the operation of God...not the revelation of a doctrine.

Col. 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Now most people will read that verse and think they just have to accept that God operated on Jesus instead of themselves...OR..big OR...that we are risen with Christ by faith through the operation of God. So then God has to visit us and make the experience actually happen. After all Paul wasn't struck off his horse by a doctrine. But by a real intervention of God.

People want to take on a dogmatic stance to the word...rather than actually being reconciled to God and be under His real power (grace).

[Who me]

So Christians seeking to overcome addiction should not fight the urge to indulge but expect that "     something magical will happen to the urge ! "

Strange how Paul talks about being disciplined like a solder or like an olympic athelete.

Which strongly tells us that the Christian life is striving, working at overcoming ones faults, urges to sin etc. Which Paul also tells us that we don't resist to the limits of our strength and that if we do resist that a way out will be provided.

 

[Pekoudah]

8 minutes ago, Who me said:

So Christians seeking to overcome addiction should not fight the urge to indulge but expect that "     something magical will happen to the urge ! "

Our sins cause us to go to God. God operates on us to give us His life as we are crucified with Christ. From THERE there is no addiction. From THERE we don't sin at all. THAT is the power of the gospel...deliverance from sin.

So you don't yet understand the power and grace of God. You are trying to go about life with beliefs and dogmas..but no power from heaven.

It's not that you try putting sin fires out as you find them...you take your WHOLE LIFE to God to be dealt with. You become as fireproof as Jesus when you are IN Him to abide in Him. Just like you become bullet-proof when you enter INTO an army tank. You are speaking of band aids to sins. But one does not need a band aid if one is dead to sin. The cross of Christ takes away the power of the flesh in us...so that we can walk in newness of life.

 

That is why we glory in the cross of Christ....that takes us away from the lusts of this world.

[Pekoudah]

23 minutes ago, Who me said:

Which strongly tells us that the Christian life is striving, working at overcoming ones faults, urges to sin etc. Which Paul also tells us that we don't resist to the limits of our strength and that if we do resist that a way out will be provided.

On this point...you are speaking of a walk in one's own power...when not in the Spirit.

 

I began my walk in the light in Zion...by the power of Christ. But that only lasted a few days because I was freaked out. I was so selfish that I didn't want to be a saint for God...I wanted my own life back...miserable as it was...it was MINE. (so selfish)

 

After that I had to walk in my own strength...following Jesus but at a great distance. He would help me sometimes to show that He was still faithful...but really I was in my own power...not under grace.

 

About 20 years later I was permitted back into the Spirit. I lasted for 2 years or so (with no sin) until I failed due to a lack of maturity.

 

So I learned more about the walk and what God is looking for in us.

 

It is two-fold. His purity (grace) and our maturity in faith in it. (to say it briefly)

Edited June 6, 2019 by Pekoudah

[Who me]

3 minutes ago, Pekoudah said:

On this point...you are speaking of a walk in one's own power...when not in the Spirit.

I began my walk in the light in Zion...by the power of Christ. But that only lasted a few days because I was freaked out. I was so selfish that I didn't want to be a saint for God...I wanted my own life back...miserable as it was...it was MINE. (so selfish)

After that I had to walk in my own strength...following Jesus but at a great distance. He would help me soetimes to show that He was still faithful...but really I was in my own power...not under grace.

About 20 years later I was permitted back into the Spirit. I lasted for 2 years or so (with no sin) until I failed due to a lack of maturity.

So I learned more about the walk and what God is looking for in us.

It is two-fold. His purity (grace) and our maturity in faith in it. (to say it briefly)

1john1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all^b sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

Interesting that thebible does not teach what you do. Rather it says we will sin and that we need to confess that we have sinned.

Rqually what I wrote was not my ideas, but Pauls.

May be you should pay attention to what he teaches.

[Pekoudah]

31 minutes ago, Who me said:

Strange how Paul talks about being disciplined like a solder or like an olympic athelete.

It is both...

 

I see it like big breaths and little breaths. A big breath is going in and out of the Spirit over long periods of time. Then there are the little breaths...the little things, like revelations, or miracles in the moment. Like when you feel a peace of the Lord come over you.

So we give thanks for everything from God.

But the big breaths can be years in the making. A person can walk in the Spirit (without sinning) for years at a time (as I did once) before a lack of maturity puts an end to that segment in the training of the high calling in Christ.

[WordSword]

35 minutes ago, Pekoudah said:

- J B Stoney said: ↑

If we observe the history of Christians, we see them trying to improve themselves—their tempers and their evil tendencies, plainly showing they do not truly believe (or misunderstand—NC) in the absolute and simple revelation that “our old man is crucified with Him.”

This idea begins well and then drops into a fallacy. Crucifixion is not a revelation...but an experience of God that must be entered into in real life. 

Hi, and I agree with your complete reply, except that I believe Christians undergo co-crucifixion with Christ at rebirth. All that brings about faith, salvation, rebirth and all the godly virtues (holiness, righteousness, justification, etc.) are established in the believer by God during rebirth. What remains is the believer to learn to walk in them, which progressively manifests what we already are in the Lord Jesus.

Appreciate your input, and God bless!

[Pekoudah]

17 minutes ago, Who me said:

1john1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all^b sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

Interesting that thebible does not teach what you do. Rather it says we will sin and that we need to confess that we have sinned.

Rqually what I wrote was not my ideas, but Pauls.

May be you should pay attention to what he teaches.

Please. You are making a beginner's mistake. Of course we have all sinned. But if you can't stop sinning you are still outside of Christ.

 

Does the blood of Jesus (His life in us) only purify us from SOME sin? read the whole chapter..and the whole bible..not just the unbelievers verses

 

Please read the context of what John is saying...to believers.

1 John 2

³ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

⁴ He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

⁵ But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

⁶ He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 3

⁴ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

⁵ And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

⁶ Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

 

⁸ He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

⁹ Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

Study these ideas....pray for understanding.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Pekoudah

[Not me]

This truth here;

“Crucified with Christ” ....... (being dead in Christ)

is the foundation of our salvation. 

Blessings as these truths are looked into, and the peaceable fruit of righteousness is seen by all. 

Much love in Christ, Not me