“Crucified With Christ”

[gordon7777]

2 hours ago, WordSword said:

Note to viewer: Hope everyone is using the daily devotional from MJS because it contains all of the same teachings as the articles I share. God be blessed!

http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

 

 

“Putting off the old man” involves that which it does, not that which it is. Believers cannot put of the old man itself, but do, “by the Spirit” put off its “deeds” and “conversations” (Col 3:9; Eph 4:22). This is possible because the old man, or sin nature, is restrained (but not removed) on the Cross (“is crucified” – Rom 6:6) due to our being “crucified with Christ.”

NC

 

 

“Crucified With Christ”

 

The believer is now before the Father, not in the man who was under judgement (old man; sin nature—NC), but in the Man who has glorified Him in bearing the judgment, and consequently, there is not a cloud between his soul and the Father, because the man who caused the distance has been condemned in judgement.

Often a believer though tasting of peace with God, when he finds the working of sin in him tries to correct it as if he could alter himself (old self—NC), overlooking the great and stupendous fact that the Father Himself has removed the man (nullified the dominion of “the old man” – Rom 6:14—NC) in judgement in the death of His own Son. Thus if a believer is really at peace with God it is because his “old man has been crucified with Christ,” and altogether set aside in the judgement of the Cross. If he were clear as to the fact of our old man being crucified with Christ, instead of trying to correct himself (i.e. crucify old man by self—NC), he would look to the Lord Jesus to set him free from the intrusion of the flesh: “Reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

What becomes us now is to have the Lord Jesus before us, and not the correction of the old man (by self—NC). The snare of trying to improve oneself is very common, and it is important to see that, however well-meaning it may be, it is really denial that our old man has been crucified, and a revival (continued ignorance—NC) of that which has been set aside in the Cross. It is plain that if we are clear of the old man we have no man before us but the risen Lord Jesus Christ. “If Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin”; and the more sensible you are of how ready the flesh is to intrude, the more you are cast upon Him.

It is inconceivable that one could have any just apprehension of God’s grace, and yet continue to expect anything from the flesh or in any way to deal with it (referring to the nature itself and not its works, which we are given to deal with in our walk, because we are crucified—NC). It shows how little the revelation of His grace is really accepted in its greatness; because if I know that God Himself has in the Cross removed from His sight the man (old man—NC) who offended, how gladly I should accept His grace!

What fruitless sorrow has one known for months and years in the attempt to improve oneself, until wearied out we cry, “O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death” (not the physical body but the “body of sin” with its “members” (Rom 6:6; Col 3:5)? Then we find there is only one relief, and that is found where we ought to have sought it at first: “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Nothing can be more certain for the believer than that one man is judicially gone in judgement, and that the Lord Jesus alone remains. When I have put on Christ—the best robe—which is “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.” Not only does the blessed Father see me on this ground, one from which He never can change or be diverted, but I now, by the Spirit of God see myself (new self or new nature—NC) on that ground and I can only say, not only our “old man is crucified,” but “I have been crucified”; and if I have been crucified, how can I refer to myself in any sense (concerning self-crucifixion, which is impossible—NC)?

If we observe the history of Christians, we see them trying to improve themselves—their tempers and their evil tendencies, plainly showing they do not truly believe (or misunderstand—NC) in the absolute and simple revelation that “our old man is crucified with Him.”

There is nothing of deeper importance at the commencement of our Christian life than that we should accept, with some apprehension of its greatness, that the man that was under judgment is removed from the eye of God in judgment. We have to ponder in order to realize the magnitude of it, and when we do believe it is the truth, another thing of equal importance is made known to us—that not only is the old man completely removed (concerning its guilt and rein—NC) from the eye of the God, but that by the Holy Spirit we are in Christ a new creation by the power of God. If we keep these two things together we have a great start; one man is gone in judgment and another has been brought in, and this is established to us by the renewing work of the Holy Spirit.

Thus we enter on our new history. Properly, we are not occupied with the flesh (sin nature—NC); though the flesh is still in us (Rom 7:17, 20) we “are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Rom 8:9); and our attention is largely given to walking in the Spirit. We have now a new exercise, even to sow to the Spirit. “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh” (the victory is in the absence of willing to sin - Heb 10:26—NC).

This shows us how intent our eye must be on the risen Lord Jesus; we have nothing to do with that man that has been judged, and the more we realize this the happier we are—judicially freed of the one and by the Spirit of God established in the Other. Everything we do now is done with reference to the Lord Jesus; and not only is “the body for the Lord” (1Co 6:13), but “he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.” We are to act according to His pleasure in the very management of our bodies.

It is remarkable that Romans 12:1, 2 refers to the body; “Present your bodies a living sacrifice . . . be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.” But in 2 Corinthians 3:18, “we all beholding the glory of the Lord—are transformed”; it is the same word (transformed) as in Romans 12:2, and is only used twice in Scripture in reference to us—once as to the physical body, and secondly as to what is imparted to us—what is received from Christ; we are “transformed according to the same image.”

This might be called the exercise of our daily life; our history here is not merely seeking to glorify Him in our bodies, but we should be growing in moral correspondence to Himself, and that by association with Himself; so that the two great truths we started with would be confirmed to us more and more every day—the old man gone from the eye of God and from our eye, and we are new creations established in the Lord Jesus Christ by the ministry of the Spirit of Christ.

- J B Stoney

"Properly, we are not occupied with the flesh (sin nature—NC); though the flesh is still in us (Rom 7:17, 20) we “are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Rom 8:9); and our attention is largely given to walking in the Spirit. We have now a new exercise, even to sow to the Spirit. “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh” (the victory is in the absence of willing to sin - Heb 10:26—NC)."

Now lets take the first words, that the flesh is still in us. Saying in verse 17 that sin is dwelling in us for us to do what we would not, and 20, and the evil we would not do because of sin that dwells in us. Also this is Apostle Paul describing CARNAL. Right away answering then, the CARNAL mind is enmity against God, the adulterers and all friendship with the world of sin is enmity with God, and if you are it;s friend you are God's enemy.  CARNAL is not subject to the law of God, neither can be, and Christ for us is not made after the law of that carnal commandment, but after the POWER of God and the endless life, as Christ is eternal life who we need to know this life. Paul also describes, in that CARNAL law, how they delight in the law of God after their inward man, testified in Isaiah 58 how they seek the Lord and delight to know HIs ways, but not after knowledge is testified too. All of these CARNAL, do the things they would not do, as this is flesh, but when it is Spirit, there is no more flesh, it is testified, NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW, and the LAW IS CARNAL, all of that is gone away, ALL ATTENTION can only be to what is there, that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit, IS SPIRIT..John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit......

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Hebrews 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Isaiah 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Is the victory in the abscence of being willing to sin, no that testifies there is no more sacrifice for these, they are wavering, and then it is all as told, without trying to change it all, it is, those who DO SIN WILFULLY are not provoked to doing good works in love instead, as love works no ill to your neighbour, FULFILLING the law( of Christ) and NOT and NEVER, largely, or mostly, but entirely, even wholly, even as told already and shown by God in deeds of His true followers the Holy Apostles in the Holy scriptures..

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

"It is remarkable that Romans 12:1, 2 refers to the body; “Present your bodies a living sacrifice . . . be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.” But in 2 Corinthians 3:18, “we all beholding the glory of the Lord—are transformed”; it is the same word (transformed) as in Romans 12:2, and is only used twice in Scripture in reference to us—once as to the physical body, and secondly as to what is imparted to us—what is received from Christ; we are “transformed according to the same image.”

Now as for what is only used twice in scripture. Is it remarkable to know, that God does much more than people assume ? Now as for putting off anger and all wrong things for the believer, yes they ironically are reminded by God even after hearing that article some man made,  to no longer lie to one another, that is the old man, now the new man is renewed(transformed) in knowledge of the image of Christ, putting on mercies, kindness humbleness, and charity which is perfectness. NO more corruption, put off that old man, but after God(transformed) the new man created in righteousness and true holiness, putting away lying, speaking truth to your neighbour, and to be angry to not sin. This is our outward flesh dead to sin, and the new man renewed every day..

Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

[WordSword]

3 hours ago, gordon7777 said:

"Properly, we are not occupied with the flesh (sin nature—NC); though the flesh is still in us (Rom 7:17, 20) we “are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Rom 8:9); and our attention is largely given to walking in the Spirit. We have now a new exercise, even to sow to the Spirit. “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh” (the victory is in the absence of willing to sin - Heb 10:26—NC)."

Now lets take the first words, that the flesh is still in us. Saying in verse 17 that sin is dwelling in us for us to do what we would not, and 20, and the evil we would not do because of sin that dwells in us. Also this is Apostle Paul describing CARNAL. Right away answering then, the CARNAL mind is enmity against God

I agree with your reply concerning being "carnally minded" (Rom 8:6) but this is different from being carnal. To one degree or another all are still carnal due to still possessing the sin nature, but the difference between the carnality of one regenerate and unregenerate is seen in the lifestyle (walk), as the unsaved continues to live more in the carnal and the saved continues to live less in the carnal.

I think a useful example is the comparison between immature believers (babes-in-Christ - Col 3:1) and the unsaved (Rom 8:6). Believers no longer abide in "death" as before when unregenerate! Though believers are still affected by the old man (sin nature) to some degree the Father no longer regards them after the sin nature (Rom 8:9). I believe the overall issue with the walk of the believer is that though there is still sin, yet it is not "willfull" (Heb 10:26; presumptuous - Num 15:24-30). If one claims to believe in Christ and continues to live after sin, they have yet to be reborn, because "God works" in everyone reborn "to desire and do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13).

God's blessings to your Family, and always appreciate your replies and comment!

[gordon7777]

1 hour ago, WordSword said:

I agree with your reply concerning being "carnally minded" (Rom 8:6) but this is different from being carnal. To one degree or another all are still carnal due to still possessing the sin nature, but the difference between the carnality of one regenerate and unregenerate is seen in the lifestyle (walk), as the unsaved continues to live more in the carnal and the saved continues to live less in the carnal.

I think a useful example is the comparison between immature believers (babes-in-Christ - Col 3:1) and the unsaved (Rom 8:6). Believers no longer abide in "death" as before when unregenerate! Though believers are still affected by the old man (sin nature) to some degree the Father no longer regards them after the sin nature (Rom 8:9). I believe the overall issue with the walk of the believer is that though there is still sin, yet it is not "willfull" (Heb 10:26; presumptuous - Num 15:24-30). If one claims to believe in Christ and continues to live after sin, they have yet to be reborn, because "God works" in everyone reborn "to desire and do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13).

God's blessings to your Family, and always appreciate your replies and comment!

Sin nature=not born again, born again= sinneth not.

1 John 5:18We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

There are no babes in Christ, only those converted to be as little children. Notice carefully, this messge of Heaven is revealed to babes, and look babes are perfect in praise..

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

 

Matthew 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

 

You say we are still carnal, but carnal is envy strife, divisions, walking as men, but this is not scriptural, you do no provide those just yet..

 

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

 

Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

 

2 Corinthians 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

 

James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. ¹⁷ But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

 

Before you reply to me, read this below carefully, if not keep digging deeper

 

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

It is not a persons desire to do good any more, it is the will of God that works in them, which is no defiling, but your case represents God not minding defiling sometimes, but can you really show against these..

 

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

 

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall Goddestroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

 

Psalm 119:1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.

 

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

 

Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

 

 

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

11 hours ago, gordon7777 said:

"Properly, we are not occupied with the flesh (sin nature—NC); though the flesh is still in us (Rom 7:17, 20) we “are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Rom 8:9); and our attention is largely given to walking in the Spirit. We have now a new exercise, even to sow to the Spirit. “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh” (the victory is in the absence of willing to sin - Heb 10:26—NC)."

Now lets take the first words, that the flesh is still in us. Saying in verse 17 that sin is dwelling in us for us to do what we would not, and 20, and the evil we would not do because of sin that dwells in us. Also this is Apostle Paul describing CARNAL. Right away answering then, the CARNAL mind is enmity against God, the adulterers and all friendship with the world of sin is enmity with God, and if you are it;s friend you are God's enemy.  CARNAL is not subject to the law of God, neither can be, and Christ for us is not made after the law of that carnal commandment, but after the POWER of God and the endless life, as Christ is eternal life who we need to know this life. Paul also describes, in that CARNAL law, how they delight in the law of God after their inward man, testified in Isaiah 58 how they seek the Lord and delight to know HIs ways, but not after knowledge is testified too. All of these CARNAL, do the things they would not do, as this is flesh, but when it is Spirit, there is no more flesh, it is testified, NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW, and the LAW IS CARNAL, all of that is gone away, ALL ATTENTION can only be to what is there, that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit, IS SPIRIT..John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit......

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Hebrews 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Isaiah 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Is the victory in the abscence of being willing to sin, no that testifies there is no more sacrifice for these, they are wavering, and then it is all as told, without trying to change it all, it is, those who DO SIN WILFULLY are not provoked to doing good works in love instead, as love works no ill to your neighbour, FULFILLING the law( of Christ) and NOT and NEVER, largely, or mostly, but entirely, even wholly, even as told already and shown by God in deeds of His true followers the Holy Apostles in the Holy scriptures..

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

"It is remarkable that Romans 12:1, 2 refers to the body; “Present your bodies a living sacrifice . . . be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.” But in 2 Corinthians 3:18, “we all beholding the glory of the Lord—are transformed”; it is the same word (transformed) as in Romans 12:2, and is only used twice in Scripture in reference to us—once as to the physical body, and secondly as to what is imparted to us—what is received from Christ; we are “transformed according to the same image.”

Now as for what is only used twice in scripture. Is it remarkable to know, that God does much more than people assume ? Now as for putting off anger and all wrong things for the believer, yes they ironically are reminded by God even after hearing that article some man made,  to no longer lie to one another, that is the old man, now the new man is renewed(transformed) in knowledge of the image of Christ, putting on mercies, kindness humbleness, and charity which is perfectness. NO more corruption, put off that old man, but after God(transformed) the new man created in righteousness and true holiness, putting away lying, speaking truth to your neighbour, and to be angry to not sin. This is our outward flesh dead to sin, and the new man renewed every day..

Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

 

Nothing personal,but......if there was anything of value in there, it’s very likely to be missed.....I don’t go near lengthy posts like that anymore, and I doubt if many others do......like Thoreau ( really had to check spelling on that guy... lol ) said....... “Simplify, Simplify”

[WordSword]

15 hours ago, gordon7777 said:

Sin nature=not born again, born again= sinneth not.

1 John 5:18We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

There are no babes in Christ, only those converted to be as little children. Notice carefully, this messge of Heaven is revealed to babes, and look babes are perfect in praise..

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

 

Matthew 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

 

Hi Gordon and always appreciate your sincere replies! Though I like that you use Scripture to share your comments, there is often a difference in our understanding in them, which is fine but just wanted to let you know. I wouldn't think there can be much agreement between us concerning the present issues we are discussing because the basis of them are founded on the truth that those who are reborn still possess the indwelling of the sin nature, without which understanding would be difficult to discuss anything related to it, because it is a primary growth truth concerning the life a believer's learning related to "walking in the Spirit."

But I would like to share something with you that I think may address why I believe saints still have "the old man," but are not after it (Rom 8:9). When John wrote that "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (1Jhn 3:9) I believe he was referring to the believer after the new nature, which is the "seed." Only Christians have two natures (old and new) and we live by the new while we are affected by the old. Thus, we do not sin after our new nature but only after the old, and I believe this is well portrayed in what Paul wrote concerning Romans 7:17, 20.

The "I" in these verses represents Paul thinking or doing in his new nature (new man), and "sin" represents him in his old nature (old man). I like the following comment here by John Gill:

"Doth not commit sin"; 'does not make it his trade and business; it is not the constant course of his life; he does not live and walk in sin, or give up himself to it; he is not without the being of it in him, or free from acts of sin in his life and conversation, but he does not so commit it as to be the servant of it, a slave unto it, or to continue in it.'

I think the most significant issue here is that he is not a "servant" of sin, which means his sins are not of his willing after his new nature, which answers to his use of the word "captivity" in Rom 7:23. All sin but only those reborn are unwilling subjects, as those not reborn are willing subjects. The sins of our old nature are against our will in our new nature and thus, we sin as one who is a captive against our will, i.e. not sinning "willfully" (Heb 10:26), unlike us before regeneration.

It's all in the issue of not wanting to sin, though God allowed the sin nature to remain, for us to continue to learn from it concerning being God-dependent. I think this puts more light on our gratitude for being dead to sin's damnation (Rom 8:1) and dominion (Rom 6:14).

[gordon7777]

Missed by whom ? Not missed by me. Not missed by anyone who is like me either. If anyone thought I wrote with knowledge of Christ, with the Spirit of discernment revelation and understanding, even with the charity of the Lord, they also would know how we endure all things and bear all things, even in difficulty in our lives, on our bodies, but we value that are the power of the Lord resting on us when we do things that cause us weakness. Also, if I was wrong, it would be better for nobody to see my message. Best of all, I believe the true message is from God, He talks to people to their heart, and everything a person says has to be missed, but everything God says is never missed at all.

[gordon7777]

2 minutes ago, WordSword said:

Hi Gordon and always appreciate your sincere replies! Though I like that you use Scripture to share your comments, there is often a difference in our understanding in them, which is fine but just wanted to let you know. I wouldn't think there can be much agreement between us concerning the present issues we are discussing because the basis of them are founded on the truth that those who are reborn still possess the indwelling of the sin nature, without which understanding would be difficult to discuss anything related to it, because it is a primary growth truth concerning the life a believer's learning related to "walking in the Spirit."

But I would like to share something with you that I think may address why I believe saints still have "the old man," but are not after it (Rom 8:9). When John wrote that "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (1Jhn 3:9) I believe he was referring to the believer after the new nature, which is the "seed." Only Christians have two natures (old and new) and we live by the new while we are affected by the old. Thus, we do not sin after our new nature but only after the old, and I believe this is well portrayed in what Paul wrote concerning Romans 7:17, 20.

The "I" in these verses represents Paul thinking or doing in his new nature (new man), and "sin" represents him in his old nature (old man). I like the following comment here by John Gill:

"Doth not commit sin"; 'does not make it his trade and business; it is not the constant course of his life; he does not live and walk in sin, or give up himself to it; he is not without the being of it in him, or free from acts of sin in his life and conversation, but he does not so commit it as to be the servant of it, a slave unto it, or to continue in it.'

I think the most significant issue here is that he is not a "servant" of sin, which means his sins are not of his willing after his new nature, which answers to his use of the word "captivity" in Rom 7:23. All sin but only those reborn are unwilling subjects, as those not reborn are willing subjects. The sins of our old nature are against our will in our new nature and thus, we sin as one who is a captive against our will, i.e. not sinning "willfully" (Heb 10:26), unlike us before regeneration.

It's all in the issue of not wanting to sin, though God allowed the sin nature to remain, for us to continue to learn from it concerning being God-dependent. I think this puts more light on our gratitude for being dead to sin's damnation (Rom 8:1) and dominion (Rom 6:14).

The second testimony God gives us reality, deeds, works, and we see the works of Apostle Paul never testify of anything wrong he ever did not a singular thing is testified, but what is testified ?

 

First for Christ to show the similarity..

Mark 7:37 And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hathdone all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak.

 

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

 

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

 

John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

 

Now the Holy Apostle of the Lord Paul..

 

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

 

Acts 24: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

 

2 Thessalonians 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

 

1 Corinthians 9:25-27

Know ye not, that they which run in a race run all, but one

receiveth the prize? So run that ye may obtain. And every

man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all

things, they do it to obtain a corruptible

  crown, but we an incorruptable. I run therefore not as

uncertainly, so fight I, not as one that beateth the air,

but I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection, lest

that by any means, when I have preached to others I myself

should be a castaway. 2 Corinthians 10:2-3,5 Some think we

walk after the flesh, though we walk in the flesh, we do not

war after the flesh. Casting down every imagination, and

every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of

God, and bringing into captivity every

  thought to the obedience of Christ

 

Galatians 2:17-18 If while we seek to be

justified by Christ we ourselves are found

  sinners, is Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if

I build again the things which I destroyed I make myself a

transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that

I might live unto God

 

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 Furthurmore then

we beseech you, and exhort you by the lord Jesus, that as

you have recieved of us how ye ought to walk and to please

God, so you would abound more and

  more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the lord

Jesus. The will of God is your sanctification, that ye

abstain from fornication: that every one of you should

posess his vessel in sancification and honour, not in the

lust of concupiscence, as the gentiles which know not God,

because the lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have

forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us

unto uncleaness, but unto holiness. He therefore that

despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath given also

  unto us his holy spirit