gordon7777 Posted June 7, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 860 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 264 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/22/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2019 How can you give your heart to God ? God takes away our heart, replacing it with a heart of flesh ? They cant give their life when He is life, He gave the life, they give nadda.. Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. The sheep hear, others don't, I wonder where second time is in what Jesus shows ? John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. John 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted June 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2019 19 hours ago, creativemechanic said: I once heard an older Christian say that this is one way to distinguish a backslider from a false convert who returns to their former lifestyle. What do u think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted June 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2019 The way I understand being a person that works with livestock. Backsliding is when livestock loose traction on a slippery slope. Their whole conformation is created to dig in and move forward but they have no breaks when they start sliding back. People come to the Lord with some strong chains and can be trapped in strong demonic strong holds. Tons of false beliefs and character flaws But their heart felt cry and faith in his love is real and the Holy Spirit is testifying to them they are Chirst's. Jesus walked with and taught, corrected his disciples 3 1/2 years before they could receive the revelations of the kingdom of heaven. Didn't the Lord let Satan sift Peter a little to straighten out a problem in his heart? Didn't the 120 have to wait and pray in the upper room for the power from on high? When we receive the gospel with our whole heart, we are new creations in Christ, we are now made to move in him and walk with him and he can move in us. But we can still get on a slippery slope and slide down to the bottom and be seperated for a time. It doesn't mean the person isn't crying out to the Lord the whole time their sliding or our shepherd won't get them on good ground again. We are told to pray for each other, gentle restore each other, call each other to repentance. when God has handed us over to Christ and when we are new creations, He has saved us, is saving us and will save us. A false convert (bible gives several scenarios of why they didn't receive) isn't a new creation, hasn't been handed over to Christ for salvation but is still walking with the Lord and may even be carrying is purse, like Judas. They don't even have new feet made yet to walk in Christ. If the gospel seed hits fallow ground it doesn't mean the Lord won't send labor's to till the ground to recieve the good seed in the right season. False converts tend to think they fulfilled the requirements of the law for salvation because self doesn't want to be destroyed, so they go on in their self love, self serving, self exalting life with out knowing the love of Christ or loving, or being humbeled by His Spirit to recieve repentance . How does the bible describe it? Having a form of Godliness but denying the power there of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 7, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I see it as a person has accepted Jesus as their Saviour but then they have not had discipling, mentoring. They don`t know how to overcome, thus as Reinitin said, their problems overcome them. Then when they have some help, or eventually cry out to God for the Saviour to be Lord of their lives, then more light shines and they begin to GROW. We live in time, and it takes time for people to become mature in the Lord. Marilyn. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted June 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: I see it as a person has accepted Jesus as their Saviour but then they have not had discipling, mentoring. They don`t know how to overcome, thus as Reinitin said, their problems overcome them. Then when they have some help, or eventually cry out to God for the Saviour to be Lord of their lives, then more light shines and they begin to GROW. We live in time, and it takes time for people to become mature in the Lord. Marilyn. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 13 hours ago, appy said: How do you know that a person didn't genuinely give his / her life to Christ and is only stumbling for a time? None of us can see into another person's heart and know without a doubt the person was never saved. My first post in this thread was in response to someone saying that a person was never saved to begin with. My personal view is that it is pretty arrogant and presumptuous of anyone to say that a person that is confessing Christ on the cross as Lord and Savior; was not ever saved because of a blunder committed. There is a reason Paul said he was not perfect, and neither are any of us today. NONE of us can look inside of another person's heart and say that God is through with them. Below is a long list of sins that we all have committed off and on since becoming a Christian. No one can claim that they have not ever sinned since becoming a Christian. Nor can anyone claim that they have never wandered away for a while. Because ALL of us Christians have done this at some point in our walk. What does scripture say? “they (unbeliever's ) will know we are Christians by our love for one another” and here we are reading on Christian message boards all over the net; of Christians accusing other Christians of being unsaved. This really, really hurts our testimony to the unsaved and those who are new Christians. Anger backbiting expressing unkind thoughts of another bitterness boasting ridiculing another person complaining about what you can't do complaining about don't have contentiousness foul language breaking an agreement covetousness craftiness (as in wrong doing) deceit desiring praise from men causing divisions double tongued taking communion in an unworthily manner envy desiring something forbidden provoking someone to anger fearfulness anxiousness not recognizing your own faults bearing false witness greediness hatred arrogance hypocrisy speaking words that have no value refusing to be appeased passion or lust pursuing material possessions being fond of gratification selfishness maliciousness having bad character mocking presumptuousness pride puffed up slandering stirring up opposition against authority taking false oaths unforgiveness being unthankful false humility failing to do something, but should have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon7777 Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 860 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 264 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/22/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, appy said: My first post in this thread was in response to someone saying that a person was never saved to begin with. My personal view is that it is pretty arrogant and presumptuous of anyone to say that a person that is confessing Christ on the cross as Lord and Savior; was not ever saved because of a blunder committed. There is a reason Paul said he was not perfect, and neither are any of us today. NONE of us can look inside of another person's heart and say that God is through with them. Below is a long list of sins that we all have committed off and on since becoming a Christian. No one can claim that they have not ever sinned since becoming a Christian. Nor can anyone claim that they have never wandered away for a while. Because ALL of us Christians have done this at some point in our walk. What does scripture say? “they (unbeliever's ) will know we are Christians by our love for one another” and here we are reading on Christian message boards all over the net; of Christians accusing other Christians of being unsaved. This really, really hurts our testimony to the unsaved and those who are new Christians. Anger backbiting expressing unkind thoughts of another bitterness boasting ridiculing another person complaining about what you can't do complaining about don't have contentiousness foul language breaking an agreement covetousness craftiness (as in wrong doing) deceit desiring praise from men causing divisions double tongued taking communion in an unworthily manner envy desiring something forbidden provoking someone to anger fearfulness anxiousness not recognizing your own faults bearing false witness greediness hatred arrogance hypocrisy speaking words that have no value refusing to be appeased passion or lust pursuing material possessions being fond of gratification selfishness maliciousness having bad character mocking presumptuousness pride puffed up slandering stirring up opposition against authority taking false oaths unforgiveness being unthankful false humility failing to do something, but should have We need to be in the Lord, keeping His word is being in Him, God is perfecting His love in us, if we love one another God dwells in us, and if not he is none of His, and Gods love IS perfected in us, who confesses Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God dwells in them and we dwell in God, believing that God is love, and when we dwell in love we are dwelling IN God, and God is in us, and WE DO LOVE HIM, because He first loved us.. First the word of Christ is the Father in the Son and the Son and the Father in us, to be made perfect in one. John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us. Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Now that made clear, IF we do not have Gods perfect love in us, we are NONE OF HIS. Next, for that big list of sins, does love equal them all ? All the law fulfilled by loving our neighbour as ourselves. Walking in the Spirit equals NOT fulfilling the lust of the flesh. Love works no ill to your neighbour, love is the fulfilling of the law, and the righteousness of the law is FULFILLED in us, who walk NOT after the flesh, BUT after the Spirit.. Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. If the question is, do we still do offence and what if we do offensive sins to others, what does God say this means ? First we know the Lords Holy Apostles are the true undisputable true examples of VOID of offence, now we see the OTHER examples.. Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. 16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men. 2 Corinthians 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. 1 Thessalonians 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. Edited June 8, 2019 by gordon7777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous5 Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 119 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/24/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2019 18 hours ago, missmuffet said: If a person has genuinely given their heart and life to God and was filled with the Holy Spirit they would not backslide. But they can always ask God into their life again. Maybe the second time they will be sincere. with all due respect, I (for the most part) disagree w/ this. I genuinely gave my heart and soul to Jesus many moons ago.. for 2 years I loved Him and walked with him, but only walked w/ him as best I could.. I was very young then and did not know the wiles of the devil as I do now... and it is a very long s tory what all i went through but suffice it to say that the people around me, family, etc.. were not on the same page spiritually as I, and I gradually began to drift away from Jesus. I did not have the "tools" i have today, which if I listed all those tools, I would (again, i say) get stones cast at me because some people do not "believe in" those kinds of tools.. a long story but anyway.. the point i am trying to make is that we are all so human and also, another point is that every one of us is unique.. our stories are unique, our relationships, our circumstances.. It always annoyed me (at one time terrified me) when people would say that.. something to the effect of: If you have accepted Jesus and then fall away, you are going to Hell and there is no hope for you. I don't beleive that at all today... I have learned so much 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted June 8, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,565 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,045 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted June 8, 2019 18 hours ago, missmuffet said: If a person has genuinely given their heart and life to God and was filled with the Holy Spirit they would not backslide. But they can always ask God into their life again. Maybe the second time they will be sincere. Sorry have to disagree with the three statements in their entirety. Perhaps good topics for fuller dscussion on their own threads though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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