Days of great tribulation

[JoeCanada]

17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Obviously you have not understood me. In Daniel 8 he was talking about the end of THEIR time, the 4 generals who took over after Alexander. 

I agree there is still an abomination coming. I have never said anything contrary to that. 

After the death of Alexander the Great, there were MANY generals trying to have control. 

Antigonus 382-301

Antipater 398-319

Cassander 355-297

Craterus died in 321

Lysimachus died in 281

Perdiccas 360-321

Polyperchon 385-300

Ptolemy 1 360-282

Seleucus 358-281

After many conflicts, there were 5 generals, then 4 generals then 3 generals.

By 280 BC, Alexander's conquests were finally divided between the Seleucids in Asia, the Ptolemites in Egypt, and the Antigonids in Macedonia. 

These 3 kingdoms proved durable and endured for roughly 200 years.

So, yes, there were 4 generals at some point. There were also 8, then 5, then 4....but 3 generals lasted the longest, after the fourth Diadochi war, Antigonus being defeated at the Battle of Ipsus (301 AD). The aftermath of that war was the final partition of the Macedonian Empire.

[JoeCanada]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I did not make this up, no matter what you think!

Dan. 8:²³ And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

 

What verse did you have in mind?

Why not read what Gabriel said when he gives the interpretation to Daniel.

Dan 8:17...." Son of man, understand that the vision pertains to the time of the end"

Dan 8: 19...." Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for it pertains to the appointed time of the end"

Gabriel is letting Daniel know what will occur at the final period of the indignation...."the tribulation".....and after, "the Wrath of  God"

At the end of chapter 8, Daniel was still distressed over the vision. In chapter 9, Daniel prays for his people.

Then Gabriel brings an answer to Daniels previous vision. Dan 9:24-27......." even until a complete destruction, ONE THAT IS DECREED, is poured out on the one who makes desolate"

Pulling ONE verse to make a point is poor exegesis, especially when it is pulled out of context. 

 

 

[iamlamad]

52 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Why not read what Gabriel said when he gives the interpretation to Daniel.

Dan 8:17...." Son of man, understand that the vision pertains to the time of the end"

Dan 8: 19...." Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for it pertains to the appointed time of the end"

Gabriel is letting Daniel know what will occur at the final period of the indignation...."the tribulation".....and after, "the Wrath of  God"

At the end of chapter 8, Daniel was still distressed over the vision. In chapter 9, Daniel prays for his people.

Then Gabriel brings an answer to Daniels previous vision. Dan 9:24-27......." even until a complete destruction, ONE THAT IS DECREED, is poured out on the one who makes desolate"

Pulling ONE verse to make a point is poor exegesis, especially when it is pulled out of context. 

Verse 17, yes, "time of the end" but WHAT end? The angel defines what end later: the end of THEIR kingdoms. We cannot just pull out one verse: the ENTIRE CHAPTER is about Persia and Greece.  Trying to use one verse to make ot something of our future is not good exegesis. 

"the final period of the indignation."  That would be ANTIOCHUS' of Seleucus' indignation, not something 3000 years into the future. Stick to the CONTEXT! it is about Persia and Greece. It has nothing to do with "the tribulation" in our future. 

Daniel 9 is a TOTAL different subject. Again VERY poor exegesis to tie chapter 9 with chapter 8. 

Notice how chapter 8 ends:   I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.

Notice that Daniel STILL DID NOT UNDERSTAND IT....but he left it at that.

9:1  In the first year of Darius son of Xerxes^[a] (a Mede by descent), who was made ruler over the Babylonian^[b] kingdom— ² in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the Lord given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years.

Notice, it is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT probably written at a different time. 

As usual, I disagree with you.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

After the death of Alexander the Great, there were MANY generals trying to have control. 

Antigonus 382-301

Antipater 398-319

Cassander 355-297

Craterus died in 321

Lysimachus died in 281

Perdiccas 360-321

Polyperchon 385-300

Ptolemy 1 360-282

Seleucus 358-281

After many conflicts, there were 5 generals, then 4 generals then 3 generals.

By 280 BC, Alexander's conquests were finally divided between the Seleucids in Asia, the Ptolemites in Egypt, and the Antigonids in Macedonia. 

These 3 kingdoms proved durable and endured for roughly 200 years.

So, yes, there were 4 generals at some point. There were also 8, then 5, then 4....but 3 generals lasted the longest, after the fourth Diadochi war, Antigonus being defeated at the Battle of Ipsus (301 AD). The aftermath of that war was the final partition of the Macedonian Empire.

It was not God's purpose to give Daniel a complete history in advance! God's purpose was to show Daniel the man would be be the TYPE of the Beast of Revelation. None of the others did to Israel what Antiochus did.

As we both know, in the end what was left of Greece was swallowed up by Rome.  Remember Antony and Cleopatra? 

[JoeCanada]

57 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Verse 17, yes, "time of the end" but WHAT end? The angel defines what end later: the end of THEIR kingdoms. We cannot just pull out one verse: the ENTIRE CHAPTER is about Persia and Greece.  Trying to use one verse to make ot something of our future is not good exegesis. 

"the final period of the indignation."  That would be ANTIOCHUS' of Seleucus' indignation, not something 3000 years into the future. Stick to the CONTEXT! it is about Persia and Greece. It has nothing to do with "the tribulation" in our future. 

Daniel 9 is a TOTAL different subject. Again VERY poor exegesis to tie chapter 9 with chapter 8. 

Notice how chapter 8 ends:   I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.

Notice that Daniel STILL DID NOT UNDERSTAND IT....but he left it at that.

9:1  In the first year of Darius son of Xerxes^[a] (a Mede by descent), who was made ruler over the Babylonian^[b] kingdom— ² in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the Lord given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years.

Notice, it is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT probably written at a different time. 

As usual, I disagree with you.

Daniel 9:20-23

²⁰ Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and ^[a]presenting my supplication before the Lord my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God, ²¹ while I was still speaking in prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision ^[b]previously, ^[c]came to me ^[d]in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering. ²² He gave me instruction and talked with me and said, “O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you insight with understanding. ²³ At the beginning of your supplications the ^[e]command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are ^[f]highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision.

What vision was Gabriel referring to?

It was the one previously in Chapter 8. There were no chapter breaks when this was written.

It has everything to do with the end times. Take off your preconceived spectacles and try to gain some understanding of Scripture.

"As usual, I disagree with you."

Sorry brother, it's not me you're disagreeing with. You are in disagreement with Scriptures, as usual!

 

[Shilohsfoal]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I did not make this up, no matter what you think!

Dan. 8:²³ And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

 

What verse did you have in mind?

I was talking about the time of the end.When the abomination thatcauses desolation will be placed.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/12-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/12-2.htm

So what was the date in 167 bc which you claim this took place?

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I was talking about the time of the end.When the abomination thatcauses desolation will be placed.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/12-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/12-2.htm

So what was the date in 167 bc which you claim this took place?

Do I need to know the DATE Antiochus slew the pig on the altar? 

Sorry, it seems we were talking about different verses. Of course Daniel 12 is still future to us today.

Edited June 13, 2019 by iamlamad

[Shilohsfoal]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Do I need to know the DATE Antiochus slew the pig on the altar? 

Sorry, it seems we were talking about different verses. Of course Daniel 12 is still future to us today.

Actually.Daniel 12:1-2 is about the day of great tribulation,unlike there ever has been.The day the abomination of desolation is placed.

The real abominatikn of desolation.Not the fake lie the pharisees taught thier disciples.

 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Daniel 9:20-23

²⁰ Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and ^[a]presenting my supplication before the Lord my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God, ²¹ while I was still speaking in prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision ^[b]previously, ^[c]came to me ^[d]in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering. ²² He gave me instruction and talked with me and said, “O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you insight with understanding. ²³ At the beginning of your supplications the ^[e]command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are ^[f]highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision.

What vision was Gabriel referring to?

It was the one previously in Chapter 8. There were no chapter breaks when this was written.

It has everything to do with the end times. Take off your preconceived spectacles and try to gain some understanding of Scripture.

"As usual, I disagree with you."

Sorry brother, it's not me you're disagreeing with. You are in disagreement with Scriptures, as usual!

 

No, You are imagining things.  yes, OF COURSE there is only one "Gabriel." It was the same angel that came, but this time it was about the 70 weeks of Daniel. It is an entirely different subject that will come in our future, not about Antiochus. 

²² He instructed me and said to me, “Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. ²³ As soon as you began to pray, a word went out, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed.Therefore, consider the word and understand the vision:

²⁴ “Seventy ‘sevens’^[c] are decreed for your people and your holy city...

The vision is what Daniel is about to reveal.  There is simply NO CONNECTION to the 70th week and what Daniel was shown in the previous chapter.

Edited June 13, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

6 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Actually.Daniel 12:1-2 is about the day of great tribulation,unlike there ever has been.The day the abomination of desolation is placed.

The real abominatikn of desolation.Not the fake lie the pharisees taught thier disciples.

 

When will you wake up and smell the roses? There was nothing fake about what Antiochus did.  If you had your dead baby chained to you neck for you to wear until he rotted and fell off, perhaps you would be singing a different tune!  Antiochus forbid circumcision - and this was the punishment of caught. 

I agree that Daniel 12:1 is around the time of the future AofD.

I can't figure out why  Antiochus fires you up so much!

Edited June 13, 2019 by iamlamad