Days of great tribulation

[Shilohsfoal]

24 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

When will you wake up and smell the roses? There was nothing fake about what Antiochus did.  If you had your dead baby chained to you neck for you to wear until he rotted and fell off, perhaps you would be singing a different tune!  Antiochus forbid circumcision - and this was the punishment of caught. 

I agree that Daniel 12:1 is around the time of the future AofD.

I can't figure out why  Antiochus fires you up so much!

All Antichus did was kill one of Gods creatures which God created.For some reason the pharisees felt that God lived in the house they occupied and they felt it was made desolate by a man,killing one of Gods creatures and offering it to something that doesnt exist.

Pure rubbish.

The Phariaees were idiots who knew nothing of Gods temple because they were not of it.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Shilohsfoal

[JoeCanada]

7 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

No, You are imagining things.  yes, OF COURSE there is only one "Gabriel." It was the same angel that came, but this time it was about the 70 weeks of Daniel. It is an entirely different subject that will come in our future, not about Antiochus. 

²² He instructed me and said to me, “Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. ²³ As soon as you began to pray, a word went out, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed.Therefore, consider the word and understand the vision:

²⁴ “Seventy ‘sevens’^[c] are decreed for your people and your holy city...

There is no "vision" in verse 22. You should be careful what translations you study!

Well yes of course I should be careful about which translation I study. I should check out the NASB and see if it is a reliable one.

I don't see the "seventy sevens" as a "vision" in the NASB......do you see it in the version that you use?

Gabriel says that Daniel is to "give heed to the message"....and "gain understanding of the vision" as Daniel had in Chapter 8.

At least that's the way my version reads. How about yours?

[iamlamad]

12 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Well yes of course I should be careful about which translation I study. I should check out the NASB and see if it is a reliable one.

I don't see the "seventy sevens" as a "vision" in the NASB......do you see it in the version that you use?

Gabriel says that Daniel is to "give heed to the message"....and "gain understanding of the vision" as Daniel had in Chapter 8.

At least that's the way my version reads. How about yours?

Except, there is simply no correlation between the 70 weeks and anything in the previous chapter. let me rephrase: I cannot see any correlation: I checked with several commentaries and neither did they see any. 

If you can see a correlation, Please show us.

[iamlamad]

19 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

All Antichus did was kill one of Gods creatures which God created.For some reason the pharisees felt that God lived in the house they occupied and they felt it was made desolate by a man,killing one of Gods creatures and offering it to something that doesnt exist.

Pure rubbish.

The Phariaees were idiots who knew nothing of Gods temple because they were not of it.

The truth is, the daily sacrifices were stopped and it took 2300 days before the temple was cleansed. This has NOTHING TO DO with what God thought about the temple and worship then. it is simple HISTORY. Again, Antiochus became a TYPE of the Beast to come because He did an abomination.  

Now, do you imagine the new Jewish temple will be something different? Do you imagine God will take up residence there? 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Daniel 9:20-23

²⁰ Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and ^[a]presenting my supplication before the Lord my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God, ²¹ while I was still speaking in prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision ^[b]previously, ^[c]came to me ^[d]in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering. ²² He gave me instruction and talked with me and said, “O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you insight with understanding. ²³ At the beginning of your supplications the ^[e]command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are ^[f]highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision.

What vision was Gabriel referring to?

It was the one previously in Chapter 8. There were no chapter breaks when this was written.

It has everything to do with the end times. Take off your preconceived spectacles and try to gain some understanding of Scripture.

"As usual, I disagree with you."

Sorry brother, it's not me you're disagreeing with. You are in disagreement with Scriptures, as usual!

 

You said Gabriel came to give Daniel understanding of the vision. it was FAR more likely to be the vision of chapter 7, for that is clearly about the end times.

[Shilohsfoal]

59 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The truth is, the daily sacrifices were stopped and it took 2300 days before the temple was cleansed. This has NOTHING TO DO with what God thought about the temple and worship then. it is simple HISTORY. Again, Antiochus became a TYPE of the Beast to come because He did an abomination.  

Now, do you imagine the new Jewish temple will be something different? Do you imagine God will take up residence there? 

Well you have chosen to follow the teachings of the pharisees.You should beware of pigs.According to your teaching they cause great tribulation,unlike there has ever been or ever shall be.

BEWARE OF PIGS.

ROFLOL

Edited June 13, 2019 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

I can just imagine the US military armed with pigs.Pigs on missiles to destroy cities ,countries.

Pigs causing te earth to quake,pig causing the the heavens to turn black and to ascend as a scroll being rolled together.Pigs falling unto the earth.

No one will be able to live in Egypt for 40 years.No foot of man will set foot in Egypt for 40 years because the use of Pig.

 

Roflmao.

[JoeCanada]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You said Gabriel came to give Daniel understanding of the vision. it was FAR more likely to be the vision of chapter 7, for that is clearly about the end times.

Yes, I agree that chapter 7 is about end times. 

In Dan 7:17...."These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth"

In Dan 8:22, we see that...... "the broken horn and the four horns that arose in its place represent four kingdoms which will arise"

Then in verse 23......"In the latter part of their rule"

Its the "latter part of their rule" of the four kingdoms which will arise.

Like I said earlier, after the death of Alexander, his kingdom was divided. There were many wars by many generals. But in the end, only three generals ruled, not four. So we can't attribute this number "four" to the division of Alexanders kingdom.

The Angel Gabriel, in verses 17 and 19, tells us three times that "the vision pertains to the time of the end, occur at the final period of the indignation, pertains to the appointed time of the end"......

The expression the end frequently occurs in references in Daniel 9:26; 11:6, 27, 35, 40, 45; 12:4, 6, 9, 13.

Many have claimed that Daniel 8:9-11 was fulfilled in ancient times by Antiochus Epiphanes.

 

However, Antiochus did not cause the hosts and the stars of heaven to fall,  Also, Dan 8:9 states that the "small horn" will grow towards the east. This is something that Antiochus never did. His empire grew towards the south and towards Israel only.

 

Here are some snippets from different books on Daniel 8.

 

 

A number of  expositors find chapter 8 dealing with both Antiochus Epiphanes and the future world ruler. 

 By J. Dwight Pentecost.

Pentecost gives a most illuminating overall view of chapters 7 through 12 in the following statement: “The key to understanding chapters 7 through 12 of Daniel’s prophecy is to understand that Daniel is focusing his attention on this one great ruler and his kingdom which will arise in the end time. And while Daniel may use historical reference and refer to events which to us may be fulfilled, Daniel is thinking of them only to give us more details about this final form of Gentile world power and its ruler who will reign on the earth. In Daniel chapter 8, we have another reference to this one. Daniel describes a king who is going to conquer the Medo-Persian Empire. This is an historical event that took place several centuries after Daniel lived. There was an individual that came out of the Grecian Empire who was a great enemy of the nation Israel. We know him as Antiochus Epiphanes. Antiochus Epiphanes was a ruler who sought to show his contempt for Palestine, the Jews, and the Jewish religion by going to the temple in Jerusalem with a sow which he slaughtered and put its blood upon the altar. This man was known as one who desolated, or ‘the desolator.’ But this passage in Daniel 8 is speaking not only of Antiochus in his desolation and his desecration of the Temple; it is looking forward to the great desolator who would come, the one who is called ‘the little horn’ in Daniel 7. In Daniel 8:23 we read of this one and his ministry.”.............J Dwight Pentecost, Prophecy for today

Pentecost summarizes the facts from Daniel 8:23-25 as a description of the beast in that (1) he is to appear in the latter times of Israel’s history (Dan 8:23); (2) through alliance with other nations, he achieves worldwide influence (Dan 8:24); (3) a peace program helps his rise to power (Dan 8:25); (4) he is extremely intelligent and persuasive (Dan 8:23); (5) he is characterized by Satanic control (Dan 8:24); (6) he is a great adversary against Israel and the prince of princes (Dan 8:24-25); (7) a direct judgment from God terminates his rule (Dan 8:25).........J Dwight Pentecost, Things to Come

Antiochus Epiphanes, of course, did arise in the latter time of the Syrian kingdom. However, the use of other terms such as the end in verses 17 and 19, and the last end of the indignation in verse 19 are difficult to harmonize with Antiochus Epiphanes.

It is also objected, as expressed by W. C. Stevens, “The time of Antiochus was in the former time of those kingdoms. His day was not even in the latter time of the old Grecian Empire; for he came to his end more than one hundred years before the Grecian Empire ended. The simple solution is that those four kingdoms are to have ‘a latter time’; i.e., they are to be again represented territorially as four kingdoms in the last days at the Times of the Gentiles.”...WC Stevens, The Book of Daniel

Hope this helps.

 

 

[Revelation Man]

20 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Well yes of course I should be careful about which translation I study. I should check out the NASB and see if it is a reliable one.

I don't see the "seventy sevens" as a "vision" in the NASB......do you see it in the version that you use?

Gabriel says that Daniel is to "give heed to the message"....and "gain understanding of the vision" as Daniel had in Chapter 8.

At least that's the way my version reads. How about yours?

The 70 Weeks was a Prophesy of Jeremiah, Gabriel explained that since Israel not only didn't repent, but kept sinning, with many Jews wanting to remain in Babylon thus their hearts were pro Babylon, so God via Gabriel explained their punishment was now 7 fold, or 70 weeks {years} times 7.

Daniel reads Jeremiah

Daniel 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;

2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah's Prophecy in chapter 25

11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the Lord, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.

So Daniel is reading Jeremiah's Prophecy and starts praying for his countrymen, Israel, and Gabriel comes forth to explain that Israel's punishment is not 70 years {weeks} now, but 70 x 7, or 490 years, or 70 weeks of 7 years. 

Gabriel explains Jeremiah's Prophecy unto Daniel

Dan. 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

So its not a vision, God is explaining His Punishment on Israel because Daniel has put forth his prayer to heal and restore Israel. God was explaining the Jeremiah Prophecy and why it was now 7 times the original punishment. 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Spock]

One bit of evidence that supports my pre or mid Trib rapture is the issue of taking the mark of the beast. 

True christians can’t be here during the 42 months in the GREAT TRIBULATION because they are sealed so they can’t lose their salvation.  But, we do have free will. I believe if we were here during the GT, it is possible they some might take the mark if that desperate to especially save a love one like a child. Therefore, God will not allow this dilemma to possibly happen by removing the Body of Christ beforehand. 

However, Trib Saints are not sealed and they have been admonished to ENDURE TO THE END.  They can lose their faith and be drawn into the dark side by taking the mark.  These people probably failed the test originally, thus were not called up at the rapture, but this is their second and last chance. You better not take that mark for food or other goods. Endure to the end people.....