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iamlamad

Days of great tribulation

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7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Oh! Finally you admit to reading it? And apparently you believe he slaughtered a pig on the altar.  Perhaps you also know that stopped the daily sacrifices and it took 2300 evening morning sacrifices missed before the temple could be cleansed. 

I never said i hadnt read Maccabees.Ive read the Quran and Hadith also but that doesnt make them the word of God.

Maccabees is a false interpretation of prophecy.The time of the end was not in 167 bc.Daniels prophecies were not fulfilled in 167 bc.

There is a reason why Jews who follow the phariseees teaching can,not understand what is soon to befall them.They wont even understand the armed forces soon to occupy Jerusalem,under Trump.All they willknow is the conscription is no longer and they will be glad.They will not understand anything just as you do not understand.You have ignored the entire chapter because you put so much faith the the interpretation of the pharisees.

 

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5 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Jesus never referenced the falsr intetpretatipn of the pharisees as you do.

Jesus plainly stated the abomination of desolation would be a sign of his coming at the end of the age.That alone shows the interpretation of the pharisees to be false.

Daniel even states the abomination of desolation would be set up at the time of the end.What makes you think the time of the end was in 167 bc?

They weren't WRONG per se about Rome being the Fourth Beast, if the Jews had not rejected Christ there would have been no inserted Church Age. So they were right about the signs pointing to 70 AD, they problem is they couldn't read the signs of the Suffering Servant, all they saw was a Conquering Hero.

I have never read much about them collectively, but the fact is you yourself misread the bible as they did in some instances. The Jews were blinded because of their rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. 

We all see darkly, the difference is Jesus called them Devils, meaning they were of Satan in that they did not understand Righteousness only comes from God by Faith, they thought their "ACTIONS" made them worthy via the Law !! Satan thought he was more worthy than God. Its a fatal flaw.

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3 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

They weren't WRONG per se about Rome being the Fourth Beast, if the Jews had not rejected Christ there would have been no inserted Church Age. So they were right about the signs pointing to 70 AD, they problem is they couldn't read the signs of the Suffering Servant, all they saw was a Conquering Hero.

I have never read much about them collectively, but the fact is you yourself misread the bible as they did in some instances. The Jews were blinded because of their rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. 

We all see darkly, the difference is Jesus called them Devils, meaning they were of Satan in that they did not understand Righteousness only comes from God by Faith, they thought their "ACTIONS" made them worthy via the Law !! Satan thought he was more worthy than God. Its a fatal flaw.

You seem to have missed the conversation.We are talking about 167 bc,not 70 ad.The Pharisees did not interpret the abomination of desolation as being anything in 70 ad.

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On 6/8/2019 at 8:14 PM, iamlamad said:

to SHORTEN those days of GT

It's hard to find two people who's theology and hermeneutics completely agree understanding the Book of Revelation. I've studied scholars and trusted expositors commentaries, and they all differ and vary on Revelation. 

In your post, did you notice where and how many times the word "time" is mentioned? What exactly is "time" and how do we use it and how does it function? We're all aware of our current measurement of the 24 hour a day and day and night cycle. Let me propose something a little off the wall that would make sense pertaining to "if those days were not shortened, no flesh would be saved". But it's still going to be 1,260 days.

What happens to society, precision and military operations if the cycle of "time" as we know it is broken? If we for a lengthy period of time lose 1/3 of daylight our cycle and measurement of "time" must change. Sure, the Earth still completes one revolution in a 24 hour period, but the observation and timing doesn't reflect reality because day and night cycles have drastically changed. Seems to me an adjustment in "time"would need to take place to keep up with the current conditions and environment? 

The days would then be shortened (time), but not by the prior 24 hour days before the darkness came. Just something I've pondered...

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2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

It's hard to find two people who's theology and hermeneutics completely agree understanding the Book of Revelation. I've studied scholars and trusted expositors commentaries, and they all differ and vary on Revelation. 

In your post, did you notice where and how many times the word "time" is mentioned? What exactly is "time" and how do we use it and how does it function? We're all aware of our current measurement of the 24 hour a day and day and night cycle. Let me propose something a little off the wall that would make sense pertaining to "if those days were not shortened, no flesh would be saved". But it's still going to be 1,260 days.

What happens to society, precision and military operations if the cycle of "time" as we know it is broken? If we for a lengthy period of time lose 1/3 of daylight our cycle and measurement of "time" must change. Sure, the Earth still completes one revolution in a 24 hour period, but the observation and timing doesn't reflect reality because day and night cycles have drastically changed. Seems to me an adjustment in "time"would need to take place to keep up with the current conditions and environment? 

The days would then be shortened (time), but not by the prior 24 hour days before the darkness came. Just something I've pondered...

I suspect many have pondered such a thing.

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14 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I never said i hadnt read Maccabees.Ive read the Quran and Hadith also but that doesnt make them the word of God.

Maccabees is a false interpretation of prophecy.The time of the end was not in 167 bc.Daniels prophecies were not fulfilled in 167 bc.

There is a reason why Jews who follow the phariseees teaching can,not understand what is soon to befall them.They wont even understand the armed forces soon to occupy Jerusalem,under Trump.All they willknow is the conscription is no longer and they will be glad.They will not understand anything just as you do not understand.You have ignored the entire chapter because you put so much faith the the interpretation of the pharisees.

 

It was the time of the end of THEIR time: that is the 4 generals that took over from Alexander. Daniel was talking in chapter 8 about THEIR time, the 4 generals and their empires. I agree 100%! What Antiochus did was not what Jesus was talking about; but it was a TYPE of what Jesus was talking about. There is still an abomination event coming. 

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14 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Jesus never referenced the falsr intetpretatipn of the pharisees as you do.

Jesus plainly stated the abomination of desolation would be a sign of his coming at the end of the age.That alone shows the interpretation of the pharisees to be false.

Daniel even states the abomination of desolation would be set up at the time of the end.What makes you think the time of the end was in 167 bc?

Obviously you have not understood me. In Daniel 8 he was talking about the end of THEIR time, the 4 generals who took over after Alexander. 

I agree there is still an abomination coming. I have never said anything contrary to that. 

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11 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You seem to have missed the conversation.We are talking about 167 bc,not 70 ad.The Pharisees did not interpret the abomination of desolation as being anything in 70 ad.

I missed nothing, this is countering your notion that he Pharisees were "WRONG" on everything, they weren't, Jesus told his disciples to listen t what they said, but not follow what they did. So they indeed missed that Christ was the Son of God, as did most of Israel, they were looking for a Political Conquering Hero, they missed the Suffering Servant. 

To say they were wrong on everything, would be to say Jesus misled his disciples however. You seem to go to the extreme on your understanding of that issue. They were brilliant men, as was Einstein, however there is but one way unto God, and that is by Faith. Nicodemus was close. 

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4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

It's hard to find two people who's theology and hermeneutics completely agree understanding the Book of Revelation. I've studied scholars and trusted expositors commentaries, and they all differ and vary on Revelation. 

In your post, did you notice where and how many times the word "time" is mentioned? What exactly is "time" and how do we use it and how does it function? We're all aware of our current measurement of the 24 hour a day and day and night cycle. Let me propose something a little off the wall that would make sense pertaining to "if those days were not shortened, no flesh would be saved". But it's still going to be 1,260 days.

What happens to society, precision and military operations if the cycle of "time" as we know it is broken? If we for a lengthy period of time lose 1/3 of daylight our cycle and measurement of "time" must change. Sure, the Earth still completes one revolution in a 24 hour period, but the observation and timing doesn't reflect reality because day and night cycles have drastically changed. Seems to me an adjustment in "time"would need to take place to keep up with the current conditions and environment? 

The days would then be shortened (time), but not by the prior 24 hour days before the darkness came. Just something I've pondered...

Good thought brother, but I think the smoke of the Trees and Grasses burning dim the light by a 1/3. The Trumpets are a warning of a certain proportion. The Vials are the climax and the Judgments are thus in full. I think its fairly obvious Jesus' original plan shortens the life that the Anti-Christ would lead under normal worldly circumstances. None of Gods plans will need to be changed. 

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14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It was the time of the end of THEIR time: that is the 4 generals that took over from Alexander. Daniel was talking in chapter 8 about THEIR time, the 4 generals and their empires. I agree 100%! What Antiochus did was not what Jesus was talking about; but it was a TYPE of what Jesus was talking about. There is still an abomination event coming. 

It was the time of the end thier time?

ROFLOL

Daniel said resurection would take place "AT THAT TIME".

Can you inform us of the date in 167 bc when the resurection took place?

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    • By Mary8
      The Feasts Fulfilled
      from 18 Feb 1991ml   I have made some changes.  See end for notes.

      Passover
         Jews in ancient Israel were required to go to Jerusalem to celebrate three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and in the autumn, Trumpets.
         Jesus fulfilled Passover which occurred on a full moon, the 14th day of the month Nisan. 
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      Unleavened Bread
         Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread which commenced the same day as Passover, on the 14th day of Nisan, and it was a seven day period of eating bread without leavening, which represents sin.  This feast was fulfilled before God only, as Jesus, the sinless one was lifted up before God.
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      8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
      9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
      10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
      Rom 15:8 "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers"
       
      It is after the sixty-ninth week that Messiah is cut off. That fact definitely places it in the seventieth week—that last remaining week of the prophecy. It was during this week that Christ did confirm His covenant with many according to Matt. 26:26-28. On this solemn occasion Christ instituted the most sacred of Christian ordinances, the Lord's Supper, saying, "This is My blood of THE NEW TESTAMENT (literally covenant), which is shed for MANY for the remission of sins."
      Conclusive Proof Links Christ With the Covenant. The death of Christ very definitely instituted the New and Everlasting Covenant, and Christ emphatically confirmed that covenant with many during the three and a half years of His ministry on earth. Even the words of Daniel are almost identical with those of Matthew—"He shall confirm the covenant with many"—"this is My blood of the New Testament which is shed for many."
      The evidence is very conclusive. There are 281 references to "covenant" in the Scriptures according to Young's Analytical Concordance. Not one of these references in any way introduces the idea of a covenant between the Jews and the Anti-Christ. 'There is not a hint anywhere that such a covenant is suggested, intended, proposed or prophesied at any time. Concerning the covenant between the believers and the Messiah there are many scores of such references. They are found in almost every book in the Bible. The reason is because when the Jews broke the Old Covenant, (see Jer. 31:31-33) then God purposed to make a new and everlasting covenant with His people. Consequently all the prophets refer to it and Daniel foretold that it would be ratified in the 70th week of his prophecy. cp. Heb. 8:7-10.
      Even more convincing is the testimony supplied by the Hebrew word for Covenant used in the phrase, "He shall confirm the covenant." The word for covenant is "Bereeth" according to the Pulpit
      Commentary ; it is spelled "berith" in Young's Analytical Concordance. In the Pulpit Commentary, Vol. 29, p. 275, a lengthy exposition points out that "Bereeth" is only used in connection with a Divine Covenant. It is never used to designate a "league" with any other power or force but is always reserved to describe a covenant between God and man. For that reason the covenant cannot apply to anyone except the Messiah. It cannot possibly describe a covenant with the Anti-Christ or any political group involving apostate Jews.
      It is further explained that when the covenant is confirmed the sacrifice and oblation ceases. The Massoretic text renders it : "And one week shall confirm a covenant to many, and in the middle of the week MY sacrifice and offering shall be taken away." The use of the pronoun "my" removes all doubt concerning what sacrifice and oblation is meant. It was the Mosaic sacrifices which God ordained and honored until the death of Christ. That is the only sacrifice God could call "MY" sacrifice.
      The death of Christ on Calvary DID institute the New and everlasting covenant and Christ Himself DID confirm that covenant with many during His earthly ministry. When Christ died on the cross the veil of the temple was rent from top to bottom, thus signifying that the old sacrifices and oblations had ceased to have any spiritual or efficacious value. At the best they were but a shadow of good things to come, (Heb. 10:1), and when Christ died on the cross the "better covenant was established." Heb. 8:6. The old covenant with its sacrifices and oblations became null and void immediately Christ died, and in that sense He caused them to cease.
      God Cannot Fail. It should be noted finally that the angel Gabriel made the announcement to Daniel. The Bible only mentions him on three occasions. He came to Daniel at the start of the 70 weeks and then he came to Zacharias and Mary to announce the birth of John the Baptist and the Messiah as the time of fulfillment drew near. Note also that the only date mentioned in the New Testament is found in Luke 3:1, 2, telling of the ruling hierarchy in both Jewish and Gentile states at that time, and signifying an impending event that would affect both Jews and Gentiles, i.e. the whole world. It was the year that Jesus was baptised; the year He was manifested to His people. It was the year He began to fulfill the promises made to the fathers ; the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy (the Jubilee year). Is it any wonder that the first evangels began their message by preaching "The Kingdom of God, saying the time is fulfilled?" What time was fulfilled ? There was only one time to be fulfilled and that was the prophecy of Daniel. Just as Daniel "understood by books the number of years whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah," Dan. 9 :2, and therefore knew the time had come for the Jews to return to Jerusalem, SO John the Baptist and Christ knew that the time specified by the angel Gabriel had been fulfilled. This set time was so certain and so determined by God that when Jesus was first attacked by His enemies He said, "My time is not yet come, " John 7:6, but in John 13 :1 it says, "Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew His HOUR WAS COME." (Compare John 2 :4 ; 7 :30 ; 8 :20 ; 12 :23 ; and 17 :1)
    • By Omegaman 3.0
      Things the Bible DOES NOT SAY about the End Times   Notice, that this list, does not establish any end times  theory, it tries to prove nothing. It does not even  attack a theory, or attempt to refute one.    What it does attempt to do, is to get people to ask  themselves, why they believe certain things, that the  Bible never says.   So basically, in between the lines I am asking:    If we believe certain things that are not stated in the scripture, and claim that we believe them because that is what scripture teaches, aren't we in principle adding to the words of scripture?   Furthermore, if we teach these things as though they are true, does that make us false teachers?   So, what things do I claim the Bible does not teach?  Following is a short list:   1. It does not say there will be a Rapture of the Church,  which occurs before the Great Tribulation.   2. It does not refer to a 7 year period as the Great Tribulation.   3. It does not say that the Holy Spirit is removed from the  Earth at any time during the Great Tribulation.   4. It does not refer to the Great Tribulation, as the wrath  of God.   5. It does not say that Jesus will return secretly or  invisibly to take His Church.   6. It does not say that no man will ever know the time (the day or hour) of His coming.
      7. It does not say that Jesus can return at any moment.   8. It does not say that Jesus will return like a thief in  the night for His church.   9. It does not say that believers will not be in the great  tribulation, or skip suffering and persecution, or even  death.   Now, am I wrong about anything on that list. If so, can you provide scripture citations that would make anything in the list a misstatement?   Thanks for your help!   P.S. Please try to stick to the actual topic, and provide us with the information which would show me to be in error, when I claim the bible does not express the ideas in the list. Also not, that in the thread that follows, other ideas that could be added to the list are these:   10. The Bible does not explicitly say the the Rapture is the Blessed Hope.   11. Jesus is not said to return as a thief in the night, in any context that necessitates a pre-tribulation return.   12. It is often said: The Rapture is Jesus coming for His church, the Second Coming is Jesus coming with His church. I think those definitions are workable, but the Bible does not say there is a multi-year interval between those events.   13. The Bible does not say, that there are 144,000 evangelists or witnesses, during the tribulation.   Helpful link to common verses applied to this topic
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