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THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST


douge

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2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Jesus, after his resurrection, spoke unto the twelve apostles of the kingdom of God (Acts 1:3). The aspect of the kingdom of God Jesus spoke of was the kingdom of the Davidic covenant; the kingdom promised Israel to reign with Christ on earth (1 Chronicles 17:12 Luke 1:32). The apostles wanted to know if Jesus was about to restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6).

Jesus commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which was the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:5).

2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

The apostles, filled with the Holy Ghost, began to speak in tongues.

2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Speaking in tongues, as can clearly be seen in verse 6, is speaking in the hearers language. Also in verses 8 and 11, tongues involves the ability given the apostles to speak and be heard in a specific language, not of their own. It was a sign given them to substantiate their ministry.

Peter, standing with the eleven, spoke in the following verse:

2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Pentecost and the filling of the Holy Ghost was prophesied by Joel. This was a fulfillment of prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. This prophecy was directed to Israel, and those present were for the most part Jews.

2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

In the above verses it should be noted that Peter was not addressing the newly formed church, the Body of Christ, but rather, Israel only. Peter preached Jesus as Christ and his resurrection, the gospel of the Circumcision (Galatians 2:7). The resurrection of Jesus Christ would assure the fulfillment of the future promised kingdom on earth, in which, he was raised from the dead to sit on the throne of David. The Holy Spirit will cause Israel to keep his commandments and reign and rule with him over the nations, to be a light of salvation to the Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:24-28 Revelation 20:4 Matthew 5:14).

2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Peter, in the above verses, states that Jesus is both Lord and Christ. Jesus rose from the dead declaring that he is the Son of God (Romans 1:4).

In verse 38 below, Peter shows that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Saviour of Israel, who alone can forgive the sins of the nation of Israel.

2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

Peter is only offering the above promises of remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost to repentant Israel and those Gentiles who would come to God thru Israel.

2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

The believers were baptized according to the commandment of the Davidic covenant announced by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:2); the cleansing for the remission of sins; the recognition of the name,authority, and the idenity of Jesus. They were added to them, the church of the Kingdom to come, not the body of Christ.

2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

They sold all they had and provided to all according to the commandment to Israel by Jesus in Matthew 13:46 and Matthew 19:21.

2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

They were in one accord as well. The church here is not the body of Christ. The church here are the believers in Christ who were promised entrance into the kingdom on earth. The kingdom which is postponed and interrupted by our Dispensation of Grace.

Edited by douge
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If the church didn't start at Pentecost, when do you think it did start?  

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The Church started on the Day of Pentecost fifty days after the Passover. When Jesus died and rose again. 

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19 minutes ago, douge said:

The church here is not the body of Christ. The church here are the believers in Christ who were promised entrance into the kingdom on earth. The kingdom which is postponed and interrupted by our Dispensation of Grace.

1 Corinthians 12:27  Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 

Romans 12:5  So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 

Ephesians 5:20  For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

1 Corinthians 12:12  For we as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.

Ephesians 1:23  Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.   

 

  

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Jesus told the 12 to wait for the Holy Spirit and when it came (Pentecost) that was the beginning of the Church

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1 hour ago, cantankerous5 said:

Jesus told the 12 to wait for the Holy Spirit and when it came (Pentecost) that was the beginning of the Church

The church began before the foundation of the world, it is built upon by the prophets first, then the Apostles, then Christ..

 

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 
Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
 
1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
 
 
 
 
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On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:11 PM, Willa said:

If the church didn't start at Pentecost, when do you think it did start?  

Hello

The church, the body of Christ began after the conversion of Paul in Acts 9.

The church of God existed at Pentecost (Galatians 1:13) and was comprised of believers in Christ, who believed only that he was Messiah, the Son of God (John 20:31).

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On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 7:58 AM, douge said:


They were in one accord as well. The church here is not the body of Christ. The church here are the believers in Christ who were promised entrance into the kingdom on earth. The kingdom which is postponed and interrupted by our Dispensation of Grace.

Hi douge,

I realize you have been taught this concerning the time gap before the Apostle Paul received the revelation of the Body of Christ. Now I agree that the 12 disciples preached that Jesus is the Messiah and Lord. They didn`t have the revelation of the new purpose, the Body of Christ. However, God was giving the people of Israel an opportunity, by the Holy Spirit, to turn to Him. Yet we see that many of their leaders turned away. (Acts 28: 17 - 28)

Thus over time many of those who heard the word through the 12 disciples also received the further revelation as it became known. It was a progressive revelation over time and God knows who is where - those who looked for Israel`s rulership to come and those who understood concerning the Body of Christ.

regards, Marilyn. 

 

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Hi douge,


The body of Christ, which is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles - the church -, did indeed begin at Pentecost.  All of my proof texts will be quoted from the NIV.

On 6/9/2019 at 4:58 PM, douge said:

In the above verses it should be noted that Peter was not addressing the newly formed church, the Body of Christ, but rather, Israel only.

Peter may be addressing Jews here, but this does not mean at all that they would not become the newly formed church - the body of Christ:

(1Co 7:18)  Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.
and...
(1Co 12:13)  For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one bodywhether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
and...
(1Co 12:27)  Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

It's so plain and obvious that whether "Jews or Gentiles" forms "one body" (Ch. 12 verse 13)... and that one body is called "the body of Christ" (Ch. 12 verse 27).  One gospel letter to both Jew and Gentile saying they are the body of Christ.

On 6/9/2019 at 4:58 PM, douge said:

Peter preached Jesus as Christ and his resurrection

It's not just Peter preaching that gospel, Paul also preached that to the Gentiles:

(1Co 2:2)  For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
and...
(1Co 15:12)  Now if Christ is preached that he hath been raised from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Both Peter and Paul preached Christ and Him crucified and resurrected and both baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.  They - Jews and Gentiles - both heard the same message and the faith was delivered one time for all people, not two times for two groups of people:

(Jud 1:3)  Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people.

You aren't out-right saying it, but the implication is just dripping in your message:  Are you saying that there is a different gospel message of salvation depending on a person being circumcised vs. uncircumcised?  This especially is implied when you say:

On 6/9/2019 at 4:58 PM, douge said:

the gospel of the Circumcision (Galatians 2:7)

I await your answer to that.  :)  Moving on...

On 6/9/2019 at 4:58 PM, douge said:

Peter, in the above verses, states that Jesus is both Lord and Christ. Jesus rose from the dead declaring that he is the Son of God (Romans 1:4).

In verse 38 below, Peter shows that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Saviour of Israel, who alone can forgive the sins of the nation of Israel.

It's not just the sins of the nation of Israel that Peter's message was restricted to:

(Mat 16:18)  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
and...
(Luk 24:46)  He told them, "This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
(Luk 24:47)  and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Matthew 16:18 was fulfilled when Peter preached the gospel message at Pentecost.  The gospel message preached at Pentecost was not only meant for Israel, but "to all nations beginning at Jerusalem."  It literally says that this message, which was preached "beginning in Jerusalem", was to be "preached to all nations" - not just Israel as you assert. 

As shown above, the body of Christ is indeed comprised of Jews and Gentiles and therefore the culmination of Acts 2 is indeed the church - the body of Christ.  And it began in Jerusalem on Pentecost.

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6 hours ago, Kevin_1972 said:

Hi douge,


The body of Christ, which is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles - the church -, did indeed begin at Pentecost.  All of my proof texts will be quoted from the NIV.

Peter may be addressing Jews here, but this does not mean at all that they would not become the newly formed church - the body of Christ:

(1Co 7:18)  Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.
and...
(1Co 12:13)  For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one bodywhether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
and...
(1Co 12:27)  Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

It's so plain and obvious that whether "Jews or Gentiles" forms "one body" (Ch. 12 verse 13)... and that one body is called "the body of Christ" (Ch. 12 verse 27).  One gospel letter to both Jew and Gentile saying they are the body of Christ.

It's not just Peter preaching that gospel, Paul also preached that to the Gentiles:

(1Co 2:2)  For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
and...
(1Co 15:12)  Now if Christ is preached that he hath been raised from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Both Peter and Paul preached Christ and Him crucified and resurrected and both baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.  They - Jews and Gentiles - both heard the same message and the faith was delivered one time for all people, not two times for two groups of people:

(Jud 1:3)  Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people.

You aren't out-right saying it, but the implication is just dripping in your message:  Are you saying that there is a different gospel message of salvation depending on a person being circumcised vs. uncircumcised?  This especially is implied when you say:

I await your answer to that.  :)  Moving on...

It's not just the sins of the nation of Israel that Peter's message was restricted to:

(Mat 16:18)  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
and...
(Luk 24:46)  He told them, "This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
(Luk 24:47)  and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Matthew 16:18 was fulfilled when Peter preached the gospel message at Pentecost.  The gospel message preached at Pentecost was not only meant for Israel, but "to all nations beginning at Jerusalem."  It literally says that this message, which was preached "beginning in Jerusalem", was to be "preached to all nations" - not just Israel as you assert. 

As shown above, the body of Christ is indeed comprised of Jews and Gentiles and therefore the culmination of Acts 2 is indeed the church - the body of Christ.  And it began in Jerusalem on Pentecost.

Hello

The body of Christ was not revealed at the time Peter was preaching at Pentecost. It was not revealed until Paul was saved after Acts 9.

I did not say Peter was the only one preaching the resurrection; which leads to your question of a gospel for the uncircumcision and a gospel for the circumcision: the answer is yes, but only at that time. Peter and the disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom; Jesus is Messiah, the Son of God and the time was at hand to bring in the Davidic kingdom on earth. After the resurrection Peter preached the gospel of the circumcision which is the gospel of the kingdom plus the assurance of Jesus coming back to establish the kingdom by the resurrection and receiving the Holy Ghost. Peter preached this to Israel but Gentiles could always come to God through Israel; Gentiles could also believe the gospel.

Paul preached the gospel of the uncircumcision, the gospel of Christ, and was an apostle to the Gentiles. Paul preached to Jew and Gentile and both could be saved and become members of the body and be justified freely apart from Israel, the law, and the covenants.

Peter preached the resurrection for Jesus to sit on David's throne (Acts 2:30); Paul preached the resurrection for our justification (Romans 4:25).

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