My own beliefs about "eternal security"

[Behold]

On 6/10/2019 at 1:22 PM, cantankerous5 said:

I frankly do not understand Christians who believe that they are saved regardless of what horrible sin they may commit after "accepting Christ"

 

 

  

"accepting Christ"?   what is that?   Its not a New Testament term, its not a bible term...... I wonder where you found it. ?    

Here is the situation.    If you read Romans 4:8, and if you also come to understand "justification by faith", you will learn that Salvation excludes our behavior, and only allows for the redemption of the Blood Atonement as God's sole method to SAVE us.

Christians who ither are not saved, or who are, but don't understand "Grace", will always talk endlessly about "but what if i do this"....>"yes, but, what if you do that"..  And this is because they are not trusting in Christ ALONE to keep them saved,.....they are trusting in themselves and their lifestyle to complete their salvation.  They are legalists, as legalists are "self savors".

And that is not True salvation thru Christ, that is a person's personal religion pretending to be God's salvation,  and it excludes the Cross, as the Cross and the Blood of Jesus does not accept any "help" from anyone to save them, or keep them saved.

Salvation is something we RECEIVE....it is not something that we DO.   "work out your salvation" does not mean you substitute your self righteousness for the Cross.  It does not mean you start with Jesus and you end with YOU.   It only means that you are to learn what Salvation means, and you are to discipline yourself to function in life as a Child of God.

And then, the other issue with people who are always trying to teach works and commandment keeping in place of the Grace of God, (Galatians 1:8) is that they have never been taught that Christian Discipleship is what follows being born again, but it does not substitute for, or sustain it.      Many Christians heretically combine God's Blood Atonement with their Discipleship as a sort of  "The Cross + my Lifestyle is what God expects and accepts to save me"""".  And of course this is exactly NOT what God accepts to save you or keep you saved.   God does not share his Glory and Mercy and Gift of Salvation/Righteousness with someone's self righteous idea of their lifestyle being a part of God's Redemption.

God's holy plan of Redemption, does not include your behavior.

God's holy plan of Redemption, is Jesus.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Behold

[Reinitin]

This is a "go no where topic" because there are opposing doctrines and both doctrines are built on scriptures taken out of the context of the full counsel of the word. I think that if more people had love for one another they would study out the matter from the opposing perspective to check their own doctrine. Then ask the questions about scriptures that refute the points of the other side. If they feel they are qualified by God to teach, THEY WOULD patiently lay the whole picture out where it has gotten confusing for others.

When we stand before God he is not gonna ask us about what others were doing and teaching he is going to ask us about ourself. Paul in all his grace and goodness said, the wrath of God will come against all those who suppress the truth and he also gave warning to those who in igornance of the truth teach falsely.

[BeauJangles]

24 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

This is a "go nowhere topic"

Oh you noticed that too, eh?  That's why I've opted out of these OSAS vs OSNAS discussions. 

[Willa]

On 6/10/2019 at 11:22 AM, cantankerous5 said:

I frankly do not understand Christians who believe that they are saved regardless of what horrible sin they may commit after "accepting Christ"

Those who are truly saved don't do this and don't have any desire to do this.  

And those who are truly saved don't think they have to do good works to remain saved, but do good works as an expression of their joy and gratitude for being saved.

Both sides of the question are bigoted toward each other.  Preconceived notions and misunderstandings.

You heard me,  A bunch of bigots!  lol  That is what keeps the argument going on forever.  Bigotry.  Get over it, people.  Jesus prayed that we be one as He and the Father are one.  So let's determine to love one another and stop the arguing.  Get over it!  

[gordon7777]

I just posted this, but it is correct for this topic, here is eternal security..

 

Willa wrote, not Dennis in another thread..

7 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Those who are truly saved don't do this and don't have any desire to do this.  

And those who are truly saved don't think they have to do good works to remain saved, but do good works as an expression of their joy and gratitude for being saved.

 

You were sealed with the holy Spirit of promise, which is the honesty of our inheritance until the redemption, and then Apostle Paul made mention of them in his prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, for your eyes to be opened, enlightened and understanding, to know the hope of the calling and the riches of the glory, then to stop corrupt communications, as the seal unto the day of redemption is the honesty of our inheritance until the redemption, and it is hardly saved, as we hear the testimony, the eyes of your understanding may be opened in the revelation of Him, and then to put away all bitterness and wrath and anger and evil speaking and malice.

 

Ephesians 1:¹³ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,¹⁴ Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.¹⁵ Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,¹⁶ Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;¹⁷ That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:¹⁸ The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

 

Ephesians 4:²⁹ Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.³⁰ And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.³¹ Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:³² And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

Same testified again, your faith growing, and charity, and all your patience and faith in your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, a token of God that you are counted worthy of the KIngdom of God for which you suffer. Wherefore the Apostles prayed always for them, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him...

 

2 Thessalonians 1:³ We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;⁴ So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:⁵ Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

 

2 Thessalonians 1:¹ Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:¹² That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Same again, the examples to us of Israel, lusting evil and idolaters, commiting fornication and tempting Christ, murmering, these are written for our admonition, (this is were the church began in its examples) upon whom the ends of the world are come(from the foundation of the world) Wherefore, for all who think they stand(redeemed/saved) take heed lest you also fall..

1 Corinthians 10:⁶ Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.⁷ Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.⁸ Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.⁹ Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.¹⁰ Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.¹¹ Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.¹² Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Last testimony now, all the charity and faith again and service, but something wrong, evil doctrine is entertained also, of commiting adultery with the things of this world, loving the things of this world that are the enemy and enmity of God, and He will give to every one of you according to your works. But to the others who have not known the depths of satan, they hold fast till He comes, but not saved redeemed as many love to think, but sitting lowest least and last, as few know how to do which they do by fearing the Lord through these earnings and to be humbled unlike the ones with stiff necks who exalt themselves in their vain talk, which is towards everyone here in this conversation..

Revelation 2:¹⁹ I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.²⁰ Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.²¹ And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.²² Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.²³ And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.²⁴ But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.²⁵ But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Edited June 15, 2019 by gordon7777

[gordon7777]

On 6/13/2019 at 4:51 PM, turtletwo said:

Amen. 

1 John 5:13

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” 

Do I have to explain everything for everybody ?

The testimony God gave the world of the Son of God, as the life is in the Son, whose words are Spirit and life and in Him was light and the life was the light of men, but the darkness comprehended it not. Darkness was overcome as He conquered satan who is darkness by raising to life eternal. 

 

These things are written so you know you have eternal life through Christ, not that you have that life, but that you know eternal life is had through Christ, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God. THat is what is told, and any other way makes no sense and is exaltation for many who seek to enter and are not able..

John 1:⁴ In him was life; and the life was the light of men.⁵ And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

 

1 John 5:¹¹ And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.¹² He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.¹³ These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

This is also for those who sin not, and self seeking is sin as it is idolatry and no idolatrous man(woman) has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God, and blessed if you do His commandments to have right to the tree of life, for without are idolaters and who loves and makes a lie......

 

^{1 John 5:18} We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.¹⁹ And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.²⁰ And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.²¹ Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

 

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

 

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

[gordon7777]

See John 3:32-36. To believe on the Son is to believe in everlasting life, He is the everlasting Father, (Isaiah 9:6) and you have Him, not the selfish ones having eternal life, that is not the Lord who lays His life down. If anyone wants to see the rest of the words there, no man receives His testimony, as selfish man is not called by the Lord. This is hidden from the wise and prudent, it is revealed to selfless babes, and we are to set to our seal that God is true, and let every man be a liar, let every man stop glory in the presence of the Lord, otherwise the wrath of God abides on us, and if you abide in His doctrine and do not transgress you have the Sion, if you transgress you have neither the Father nor the Son..

 

3 John 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doethevil hath not seen God.

Romans 2:⁶ Who will render to every man according to his deeds:⁷ To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:⁸ But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,⁹ Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;¹⁰ But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:¹¹ For there is no respect of persons with God.

John 3:³² And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.³³ He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.³⁴ For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.³⁵ The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.³⁶ He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Luke 10:²¹ In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.²² All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

1 Corinthians 1:²⁷ But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;²⁸ And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:²⁹ That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Edited June 15, 2019 by gordon7777

[Reinitin]

3 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

Oh you noticed that too, eh?  That's why I've opted out of these OSAS vs OSNAS discussions. 

There is some great scriptures being posted and this thread could be a good resource for studying the topic. But fruit isn't too evident in hard core defenders of verse out of context doctrines. Looks like they are doing a good job so far.. 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

People are free to believe as they wish......my foes have the right to be wrong......lol......I just have one little problem......nobody can refute John 5:24......That is proof that Jesus was the Originator and still the Chief Proponent Of OSAS! Or maybe at long last ,someone can refute the Words of Jesus—- “ All that believe in Me already HAVE Eternal life, and they will NEVER come into condemnation.” How nice to have this verse on my side .I would sure hate to have a choice of being forever silent about it , or tying myself up in knots trying to make it say what it does not say.

[walla299]

4 hours ago, Reinitin said:

This is a "go no where topic"

Yep. That's exactly what it is, and why I don't bother either.