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R. Hartono

Does “Counted Worthy to Escape” Prove the Pretrib. Rapture?

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13 hours ago, Cletus said:

what was it Jesus said about no greater love?  something about laying down His life for His friends?  I just cant place the verse verbatim, can you help me out? 

With over 3,800 posts you cannot find this verse you have in question.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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10 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

With over 3,800 posts you cannot find this verse you have in question.

In Christ

Montana Marv

i only have a little over 3600 posts.  i actually know the verse.  i was trying to get you to think so you could gain understanding. 

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On 6/16/2019 at 4:40 PM, Cletus said:

well, that explains why you dont understand what i said earlier. 

No brother, and I say this in humility and the love of Christ, ...you don't understand:

This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.  No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:12, 13

I was a successful General Contractor when Father called me to this third world country, I left all the benefits, amenities and liberties (that you enjoy) I had in America to come here, ...just like Jesus laid aside all of His divine Glory and attributes to become a Man and dwell on earth. To be able to do this we must obey His command to lay down our lives for our friends, when I obeyed in my heart (months before He sent me) to come here He gave me His Agape love for His/my friends, ...the Tahitian people.

Lord bless

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3 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

No brother, and I say this in humility and the love of Christ, ...you don't understand:

This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.  No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:12, 13

I was a successful General Contractor when Father called me to this third world country, I left all the benefits, amenities and liberties (that you enjoy) I had in America to come here, ...just like Jesus laid aside all of His divine Glory and attributes to become a Man and dwell on earth. To be able to do this we must obey His command to lay down our lives for our friends, when I obeyed in my heart (months before He sent me) to come here He gave me His Agape love for His/my friends, ...the Tahitian people.

Lord bless

you might want to look up the word life in this passage.  (psuchē, it means spirit, and Jesus gave up the ghost) 

what your speaking on has nothing to do with being martyred, but rather answering Gods call.  its more akin to giving up you house /life and getting rewards.  and thats good that you answered the call, but the purpose of this thread says does counted worthy to escape prove pre-trib?  the bible tells us many will be martyred, and quite a good many will be beheaded for the faith, according to the bible and many will have tribulation, it says.  death is apart of life and staying faithful unto death IS the greatest sacrifice one can do.  so i think i understand just fine. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/11/2019 at 11:58 PM, R. Hartono said:

https://tribulationrisingcom.fatcow.com/does-pray-you-are-counted-worthy-to-escape-show-the-rapture/

SUMMARY :

Luke 21:36 KJV – Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The argument revolves around declaring that the word for ESCAPE is the Greek word “ekpheugo”, and that it is a verb in the active voice – meaning that escape is something that we do, as opposed to something we participate in.

While ekpheugo is indeed a verb, a review of Vine’s does not attribute the word to an active or passive tense.  This is important as it does denote this for other forms of the word “escape”.

In other words, ekpheugo is not “escaping by your own efforts” – it is “participating in an escape by the efforts of another”.

However, ekpheugo is used to denote flee in several scriptures worth noting:

Heb. 12:25 KJV – See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Acts 16:27 KJV –  And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

Acts 19:16 KJV – And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

In all three, we see that fleeing or flight is based on the efforts of another to open the door or clear the way.  We simply have to avail ourselves of the efforts made by another.

In the case of Luke 21:36 – it is the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that actually makes the way of escape, or the way of flight be4 it happens.

At the second coming of Christ to rule the earth there is no need to be counted worthy to escape from anything because antichrist is dead, the world returns to peace  and the Millennium will start.

The escape comes BEFORE the things that are ABOUT to occur.

The 7 Seal, 7 Trumpets, 7 Vials, God wanted to wipe off evil people from the earth.

If you die as martyr would God need to count you worthy or not ?

 

 

Here are three distinct things that happen at the coming of the Lord.

 

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.                                  1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

 

  • that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

 

  1. The Resurrection
  2. The Rapture

 

These are the first two things that happen at His coming. 

 

The third thing is the destruction of the wicked.

 

   3. The destruction of the wicked; including the antichrist 

 

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3

 

again

 

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

 

  • destroy with the brightness of His coming

 

 

 

JLB

Edited by JLB
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21 hours ago, Cletus said:

you might want to look up the word life in this passage.  (psuchē, it means spirit, and Jesus gave up the ghost) 

Actually the Greek word psuchē means breath, used 225 times in the New Testament, the Greek word for spirit is a different word, pneuma and it's used 261 times in the New Testament.

The word psuchē in the Greek is breath and is translated 186 times as life with it's meaning, ...as the vital force that animates the body and shows itself as breathing (Thayer's Greek Definitions), and translated 39 times as soul with it's meaning being, ...the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.) TGD

So then, my explanation of laying down my life, my soul, my feelings, my desires, my affections is in total agreement with the Greek word psuchē translated life in the KJV, ...I have given up my life for the friends of my Lord who have become my friends. 

Lord bless 

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21 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

Actually the Greek word psuchē means breath, used 225 times in the New Testament, the Greek word for spirit is a different word, pneuma and it's used 261 times in the New Testament.

The word psuchē in the Greek is breath and is translated 186 times as life with it's meaning, ...as the vital force that animates the body and shows itself as breathing (Thayer's Greek Definitions), and translated 39 times as soul with it's meaning being, ...the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.) TGD

So then, my explanation of laying down my life, my soul, my feelings, my desires, my affections is in total agreement with the Greek word psuchē translated life in the KJV, ...I have given up my life for the friends of my Lord who have become my friends. 

Lord bless 

And Jesus breathed on them and said receive ye the Holy Ghost. 

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So..., I finish this with an explanation for the newbies in the faith, those that might have questions, those that might of been stumbled or caused to doubt by the answers from other posters that may have caused you to be confused with their opinions:

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.  John 15:12, 13 

Jesus proved His love for us by laying down His life, it's described for us in Philippians 2:1-8:

If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.  Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:  and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 

The Son, the Word, ...Second Person of the Trinity who became the God-Man we know and call Jesus, ...laid down His life for His friends, that's us, ...Scripture tells us He did this for us before the foundation of the world, ...that's why John tells us, ...We love Him because He first loved us!

Lord bless 

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Posted (edited)

Well, y'all can worry about what it all means because before that end time period begins, I am out of here.   Both OT and NT have many passages that talk of the redeemed being removed prior to that man of sin / lawless one / antichrist being revealed.  But what is in the OT, to me, is a lot more eye opening and "in your face" on the matter.

The only way to be worthy is to be redeemed by Yeshua.  His brag to the Father is that all the Father gave Him he has never lost one.  No works is going to make one worthy.  No partial rapture stuff involved either.  No support for that idea.   Either you got your redemption train ticket issued by Yeshua Hisself and you go , or you are not redeemed and you hang around and face the music.

Just like the Gospel, it is simple.  And those who are new to all this needn't fret over it.  Just trust the Lord.

Edited by OldCoot

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On 6/18/2019 at 10:17 AM, JustPassingThru said:

No brother, and I say this in humility and the love of Christ, ...you don't understand:

This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.  No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:12, 13

I was a successful General Contractor when Father called me to this third world country, I left all the benefits, amenities and liberties (that you enjoy) I had in America to come here, ...just like Jesus laid aside all of His divine Glory and attributes to become a Man and dwell on earth. To be able to do this we must obey His command to lay down our lives for our friends, when I obeyed in my heart (months before He sent me) to come here He gave me His Agape love for His/my friends, ...the Tahitian people.

Lord bless

Great explanation!

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