R. Hartono Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 770 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) Many people after reading Matt 24:29-30 assume that Jesus will appear in the sky (rapture) after the sun is darkened. Matt 24 :29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. The word 'THEN" makes people assume that Jesus will appear AFTER the sun is darkened. In fact rapture will take place when the sun still shines Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. People work in the field in day time when the sun still shine (see picture) This happens because the translation from original Greek language has several meanings : 30 And "then" (tote) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-30.htm Then shall appear = koi tote phanesetai (in greek) tote was translated as then but tote also mean "at that time". so another translation could read : At that time will appear. https://biblehub.com/greek/5119.htm Therefore the other translation could read asf : Matt 24 :29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 At that time (END OF TIME) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. The tribes of the earth mourn because Jesus only appear in heaven and do not land on the ground to rule, otherwise people won't mourn. Edited June 14, 2019 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Do you think that the sun, moon, stars language, is litteral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 770 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: Do you think that the sun, moon, stars language, is litteral? Its literal as ancient people (John) saw it, the stars might mean meteors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2019 REMEMBER JOSEPH'S DREAM ? In the Bible. From God. Who were the stars, etc, in Joseph's dream ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah_ Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 790 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 878 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2019 9 hours ago, R. Hartono said: This happens because the translation from original Greek language has two meanings : Matt 24:29 Immediately after (meta) the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, The word "after" in this verse came from Greek word "meta" https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-29.htm =eutheos de meta ten thlipsin (in greek) meta was translated as after but meta also mean "with" in english, https://biblehub.com/str/greek/3326.htm So it can also be translated more appropriately asf : Immediately with the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened. Unfortunately it isn't quite as simple as that. Whether meta means 'after' or 'with' depends on the case of the noun that follows it. If it means 'after', the noun is in the accusative case. If it means 'with', the noun is in the genitive case. They aren't interchangeable! And 'ten thlipsin' (the tribulation) is accusative. So I'm afraid it has to mean "after the tribulation." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 770 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Deborah_ said: Unfortunately it isn't quite as simple as that. Whether meta means 'after' or 'with' depends on the case of the noun that follows it. If it means 'after', the noun is in the accusative case. If it means 'with', the noun is in the genitive case. They aren't interchangeable! And 'ten thlipsin' (the tribulation) is accusative. So I'm afraid it has to mean "after the tribulation." Meta can mean with, among, after. Apart from your English grammar of accusative and genitive case you can read the original Greek with that other meanings. eutheos de meta ten thlipsin Edited June 13, 2019 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah_ Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 790 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 878 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Meta can mean with, among, after. Apart from your English grammar of accusative and genitive case you can read the original Greek with that other meanings. eutheos de meta ten thlipsin I'm talking about Greek grammar - English doesn't have accusative and genitive cases! You can only read the original Greek correctly by using Greek grammar - and there the cases do make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 770 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Deborah_ said: I'm talking about Greek grammar - English doesn't have accusative and genitive cases! You can only read the original Greek correctly by using Greek grammar - and there the cases do make a difference. A preposition is a word such as after, in, to, on, and with. Prepositions are usually used in front of nouns or pronouns and they show the relationship between the noun or pronoun and other words in a sentence With and after is the same preposition, so its correct to translate it as with or after which explains ten thlipsin/tribulation. Here "with" is the alternative meaning. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-29.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah_ Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 790 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 878 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, R. Hartono said: A preposition is a word such as after, in, to, on, and with. Prepositions are usually used in front of nouns or pronouns and they show the relationship between the noun or pronoun and other words in a sentence With and after is the same preposition, so its correct to translate it as with or after which explains ten thlipsin/tribulation. Here "with" is the alternative meaning. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-29.htm Have you ever learned a language like Greek, where nouns take different forms ("cases")? The preposition may stay the same, but whether it means 'with' or 'after' is shown by the form of the noun that comes after it. "meta ten thlipsin" means "after the tribulation"; "with the tribulation" would be "meta tes thlipseos" It is not correct to mix them up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted June 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 770 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Deborah_ said: Have you ever learned a language like Greek, It cud mean with though it wasnt, are u Professor ? Edited June 13, 2019 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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