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thomas t

Richard Dawkin's Arguments to Dismiss Christian Faith

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Posted (edited)

Hi all,

many atheists come here using the argumentation introduced by Richard Dawkins... provided they're allowed to post in the visible sections. Which is not always sure.

I want to discuss his arguments. One by one. Maybe it's more efficient starting with Richard Dawkins and later listening to what atheists have to say in detail.

I refer to his video "The God Delusion" published on March 27th.

 

His first argument is....

1. faith is a process of non-thinking and it's dangerous.

He refers to Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

 

My point is: living a Christian life is rules + faith. Not faith alone.

Faith without sound doctrine might be dangerous indeed.

 

One of the basic Christian values is non-violence. If you live by it, you shouldn't end up being violent or dangerous. This means that Richard Dawkins is wrong on, at least, Christian faith, in my opinion.

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:31.

There might be some Christians who don't live up to this rule, though.

But this doesn't blot out Christian non-violent faith.

 

Regards,

Thomas

 

Edited by thomas t
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2 hours ago, thomas t said:

One of the basic Christian values is non-violence. If you live by it, you shouldn't end up being violent or dangerous. This means that Richard Dawkins is wrong on, at least, Christian faith, in my opinion.

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:31.

There might be some Christians who don't live up to this rule, though. 

Up front (I think you mentioned this "rule" before) ,  do you still (or ever or never ) think that Christians do not love sinners if they tell sinners they are doomed if they don't repent ? We all once were walking in darkness, dead in our sins and trespasses, and had to repent to be forgiven - no man today has been nor is exempt from this requirement.

Then, later,  after all,   once the Ekklesia are resurrected to eternal life, and the unrepentant sinners to the lake of fire,   those sinners won't ever have a chance to repent. (they have to repent BEFORE they die)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, simplejeff said:

do you still (or ever or never ) think that Christians do not love sinners if they tell sinners they are doomed if they don't repent ?

Hi Jeff,

Evangelism for me is inviting people:

 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. Luke 14:23.

Actually, threatening someone with hell I find is not inviting. Did you ever invite guests to a party? "If you don't show up, your house will be destroyed! [or whatever the threat may be]" Let's follow biblical standards and invite in a friendly manner. If there is need of judgement, Jesus will do it.

The challenge that I often see is that atheists have doubts on the subject level. Whenever there's a discussion with atheists here on Worthy and you have the opportunity of reaching out to them... all of a sudden there is someone threatening them with hell which isn't necessarily of any benefit dissolving their doubts.

Let's discuss their doubts first and see later which conclusions they reach.

Thomas

Edited by thomas t
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3 minutes ago, thomas t said:

Let's follow biblical standards and invite in a friendly manner. If there is need of judgement, Jesus will do it.

As written, it is time for judgment to begin in the house (the people, the Ekklesia) of God.

There are so many unrepentant sinners living as if they were the body of Christ,  and that is not "biblical standards".

TURN to Yahuweh , Jesus says (and said) to the people, for His Kingdom is at hand.  

There are so many counterfeits/ fakes/ frauds/ anti-christs,   who knew !  (those who know God's Word know)

And none of the counterfeits can offer salvation to anyone - instead they do all they can do to prevent people from finding , even from seeking, God's Kingdom today.

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5 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi all,

many atheists come here using the argumentation introduced by Richard Dawkins... provided they're allowed to post in the visible sections. Which is not always sure.

I want to discuss his arguments. One by one. Maybe it's more efficient starting with Richard Dawkins and later listening to what atheists have to say in detail.

I refer to his video "The God Delusion" published on March 27th.

 

His first argument is....

1. faith is a process of non-thinking and it's dangerous.

He refers to Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

 

My point is: living a Christian life is rules + faith. Not faith alone.

Faith without sound doctrine might be dangerous indeed.

 

One of the basic Christian values is non-violence. If you live by it, you shouldn't end up being violent or dangerous. This means that Richard Dawkins is wrong on, at least, Christian faith, in my opinion.

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:31.

There might be some Christians who don't live up to this rule, though.

But this doesn't blot out Christian non-violent faith.

 

Regards,

Thomas

 

Hello Thomas. You could say I'm an atheist. I think I'm allowed to post here. Apologies if this is a Christian only section.

I know who Dawkins is, but I'm not too familiar with his material. Still, this seems like a fairly standard point atheists make.

I don't think "dangerous" is necessarily about violence. If people have wrong ideas then that can lead to bad outcomes even if the motive is pure. Faith, as I understand it, is about believing in something despite not having strong enough evidence to justify that belief on the basis of evidence alone. I think that is where the "non-thinking" comment comes from. If you believe in things without proper justification you are more likely to get things wrong resulting in bad/unwanted outcomes, which can be dangerous.

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, David95 said:

If you believe in things without proper justification you are more likely to get things wrong resulting in bad/unwanted outcomes, which can be dangerous.

Hi David,

post as long you can!

The moment you're out (sadly this happens..) please leave a little note in your tag line or signature, so everyone can see what you think!

oh you mean dangerous for you. But if I understand Dawkins right, he means dangerous to others. He hints at the enormous power Christians have in several countries... or the anti-contraception campaign led by the Catholic church.

He sees the danger stemming from the sheer size of congregations all listening to one and the same pastor...

Well, I disagree with him, it all depends on the values you have.

(But I'm also against banning contraceptives, for instance)

Faith can be dangerous for you, too. Here we agree. I honestly recommend the Bible to you: faith in *this* God, isn't dangerous at all, I think, He's the God of love, I believe. But check it out yourself.

Thomas

 

 

Edited by thomas t
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dawkins has a lot of videos on youtube, and i forget the name of this particular onei did see, but dawkins, by his own logic contradicted himself more than once in one video.  So it does not seem "logical" to me that dawkins abundance of thinking is doing him any good.  the words of dawkins will not do anyone any good ever.  there is no reason to debate or converse upon godlessness.  no fruit will yield, no edification can be had.   there are zero contradictions in the bible, which says every eye will see and every knee will bow.  this includes dawkins.  hopefully he will repent before the door is shut for him. 

furthermore, if faith includes no thought why then does the bible tell us to consider our ways, ponder our paths, and what so ever things are good and pure and have good report to think on these things.  The book also tells us to meditate day and night.  and when we go to bed to search over our heart... to dawkins assumption, i say nay, there is much thought that must be put forth in faith.  which is why God even commands us to love Him with all our heart soul strength and what?.... mind.  you know, that place that processes thoughts. 

keep your mind stayed on Jesus people. 

Pro 1:7  The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 1:20  Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Pro 1:21  She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
Pro 1:22  How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Pro 1:23  Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

 

Pro 4:1  Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.

 

you see, dawkins is a man who think s he has it all figured out with out God.  He is not sick, he needs no physician.  he thinks he is well.  and he has in thinking this way not considered his own ways, and denied Jesus, even rejected him.  if He dont repent, he will not like the reward. 

I say again, keep you mind stayed on Jesus. 

 

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I thought The Guy was dead! “ The Gospel is foolishness to those who perish”. Bigger fools than he have had the scales removed from their eyes.....it’s hard to pray for creeps like him, but that is what he needs.....he has my prayers....

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6 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi David,

post as long you can!

The moment you're out (sadly this happens..) please leave a little note in your tag line or signature, so everyone can see what you think!

oh you mean dangerous for you. But if I understand Dawkins right, he means dangerous to others. He hints at the enormous power Christians have in several countries... or the anti-contraception campaign led by the Catholic church.

He sees the danger stemming from the sheer size of congregations all listening to one and the same pastor...

Well, I disagree with him, it all depends on the values you have.

(But I'm also against banning contraceptives, for instance)

Faith can be dangerous for you, too. Here we agree. I honestly recommend the Bible to you: faith in *this* God, isn't dangerous at all, I think, He's the God of love, I believe. But check it out yourself.

Thomas

I mean dangerous for other people too. The contraceptive example is a good one I think. I don't know much about the culture outside of America, but I could come up with a few examples of how some Christians here in America, based on their religious beliefs, are dangerous and potentially harmful to others. The specifics are probably controversial in that whether or not they are dangerous or harmful depends on your point of view.

Off the top of my head you do have Christians in America advocating for abstinence only (until marriage) education for teens, and we know that is not effective and ironically leads to more teen pregnancies and abortions than comprehensive education. Then there's also orientation conversion therapy to turn people straight, which doesn't really work and more often than not psychologically harms the person. It is rare, but some Christians refuse medical help for their children when they get sick due to their religious interpretations. One thing that has stuck with me is that I saw a politician (congressman) say that we don't have to worry about taking care of the Earth because the Bible says God will destroy the Earth and not humans. If your religious belief is that we can recklessly pollute the Earth with no consequences and you have the political power to shape the laws I think that is cause for concern and a danger that spreads across generations for the whole Earth.

I'm not saying faith is always a bad thing, but it can cloud judgement. On the other hand, dogmatic zealotry of atheism is not healthy either.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Bigger fools than he have had the scales removed from their eyes.....it’s hard to pray for creeps like him, b

Hi BB,

He's well educated, at least.

We have: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalms 53:1.

Actually, we don't know what he says in his heart. Officially, he says "no evidence for God". I disagree, of course.

Nevertheless, up to now I didn't find his heart saying "no God".

It would be wonderful if we just could refrain from debating him as a person, just accept that he's the No.1 atheist in the world, as it seems. If we can refute his arguments, then we won't have such a hard time answering the non-believers here on Worthy.

 

Hi David,

thank you for still being there!

As to denying medical treatment, may I ask you: Are you referring to Jehova Witnesses? They are said to say no to blood transfusions.

Recently, I've made a horrible mistake: I've had a germs infection in my thumb. I didn't go to the doctor's. Then, 10 days after, a brother-in-faith asked me to jump into his car and he drove me straight into hospital. The doctors were really worried at the beginning, but later they could save the thumb. Thanks to God! However, 10 days of waiting caused it to be a major intervention and the thumb lost its beauty. To everyone who asks, I'll have to explain that I was being stupid. Quite embarrassing.

6 hours ago, David95 said:

we know [abstinence only aducation] is not effective and ironically leads to more teen pregnancies and abortions than comprehensive education.

interesting if true. Can you back this up using sources? If you can't... I permit myself to take this as an unsupported allegation.

6 hours ago, David95 said:

orientation conversion therapy to turn people straight, which doesn't really work and more often than not psychologically harms the person.

also very interesting if this turned out to be true. Can you show sources and data substanciating this? BTW, I've had a little debate on this. See this page of a longer thread here.

6 hours ago, David95 said:

the Bible says God will destroy the Earth and not humans

God will, according to the Bible! However, the one thing doesn't exclude the other.

We have "and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." Humans are meant. The verse is Revelations 11:18b. So I agree with you, we should really take care to not destroy our planet.

 

In my opinion, faith in God is needed to show some appreciation for the creation we're allowed to live in. It's great!

Thomas

 

Edited by thomas t
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