A Biblical Response to Evil and the Man of Sin.

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Dont overlook the little country that has risen in the pleasant land and has become a powerhouse.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/8-9.htm

Ive read it has as many as 200 nuclear warheads.Thats pretty impresive considering how little his country is and its age.

I don't know which country you mean. In any case nukes are not the power behind the power, Satan is by the permission of the Most High God. The beasts power originates from the interdimensional power of the creative spirit of God as given to Satan. In comparison nukes look like firecrackers.

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

We need to take our cues from Scripture. I don't see anything that definitively says that the AC must arise from the Middle East.

It is pretty clear considering the line of succession of the Precious Metal Kingdoms to the Iron Kingdom in Dan 2. Gold, Silver and Brass all ruled from Babylon. If one remains in the regional line of succession only Islam ruled the area as arguably the greatest conquering force the world has ever seen, after the Khan's. Rome at it's height never ruled the region of Mesopotamia apart from some incursions they pulled back to the Levant and focused on the banks of the Mediterranean and north to Europe. Islam holds that area to this day, over 1400 years of rule there. Best candidate for the Iron Kingdom and I would go so far as to say it is the very Iron kingdom as spoken of by Daniel.

 

10 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

 In fact, the last beast of Daniel is of Roman origin, not Middle Eastern. (Granted, some Middle Eastern countries were originally part of the Old Roman Empire.) 

The idea of Rome as the Iron Kingdom is built out the misuse of Rev 17:10-11. It's impossible in my mind to think this is a prophecy of the past when Jesus tells John, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after these things.” Do we really think Rev 17:10, "...Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come;" is speaking to the past? Seriously, a prophecy is by nature future, the iteration of events is history. A real problem is"one is". This is commonly interpreted as Nero. John was exiled by Domitian in the 90's AD, long after Nero, to the Isle of Patmos, which is where John received the revelation from Jesus. If the 'one is' is Nero then 'Five have fallen...' works. But if the 'one is' is the Emperor in the time John received the revelation then it's Domitian, who is the 12th, and the popular interpretation falls apart. There's more but you get the idea; not Rome, Islam.

10 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

We can examine every other foreign leader on the planet. They're all pawns in Trump's hands. In point of fact, they're all disqualified because Daniel 19:20  says that the AC's appearance is larger than that of his contemporaries. Guess who's left on standing on stage "towering" over the others? TRUMP. By that one verse alone, he stands alone. That's just a morsel of the evidence I present.

I assume you mean Dan 9:20.

"While I was speaking, praying, confessing my sin and that of my people Israel, and presenting my petition before the LORD my God concerning His holy hill" - Dan 9:20

Not sure how this makes your case so I'm thinking it's a typo and you meant Dan 7:20, "I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn whose appearance was more imposing than the others, with eyes and with a mouth that spoke words of arrogance."

Today's breakdown:

This could apply more so to Kim Jong Un than anyone else on the planet. Not saying it could not apply to The President but honestly; an imposing appearance, arrogant words; what politician has not done this?

But the context is not boasting about himself nor the show of arrogance in relation to political contemporaries, it's boastful words against the Most High God, it's the arrogance to lift himself up over the power of God himself.

"...and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." - 2 Thess 2

"And he shall speak [great] words against the most High," - Dan 7

"...and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart,and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;" - Dan 9

I fail to see where the context of the arrogant boasting is in the political theater. That's really meaningless as everyone is doing it. It doesn't stand apart. One boasting they are greater than the Creator does, a stark and hideous contrast to your garden variety political posturing. 

"And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods," - Dan 11

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all." - Dan 11

But to the point you make, "They're all pawns in Trump's hands." Do you have evidence of this? Putin is not a Trump pawn. Neither is Kim Un. Maduro maybe? I don't think so. I do believe most world leaders have criticized our President harshly except Netanyahu, Duterte, a handful of others. He gets most of the backlash from the Mideast and European leaders, President Xi, PM Trudeau, President Obrador, etc.

President Trump doesn't even control politics in the US, nor the politicians. 

I have no issue with ascertaining the identity of the beast, whomever it may be, but we need to be careful and stay in context, in peace, and truth, in the Spirit; This will advance the cause of Christ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't know which country you mean. In any case nukes are not the power behind the power, Satan is by the permission of the Most High God. The beasts power originates from the interdimensional power of the creative spirit of God as given to Satan. In comparison nukes look like firecrackers.

The little horn defeated the three larger horns with his military strength. It was quite easy and waa an embarrasment to the others.The little horn took control of the seven hilled city of Jerusalem in 6 days.Quite an accomplishment by such a small people.

[Diaste]

42 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The little horn defeated the three larger horns with his military strength. It was quite easy and waa an embarrasment to the others.The little horn took control of the seven hilled city of Jerusalem in 6 days.Quite an accomplishment by such a small people.

I see. Beg to differ about the particulars.

[Shilohsfoal]

King of the north threatens to innihilate those who make war with him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48728465

 

King of the north keeps his promise.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

It is pretty clear considering the line of succession of the Precious Metal Kingdoms to the Iron Kingdom in Dan 2. Gold, Silver and Brass all ruled from Babylon. If one remains in the regional line of succession only Islam ruled the area as arguably the greatest conquering force the world has ever seen, after the Khan's. Rome at it's height never ruled the region of Mesopotamia apart from some incursions they pulled back to the Levant and focused on the banks of the Mediterranean and north to Europe. Islam holds that area to this day, over 1400 years of rule there. Best candidate for the Iron Kingdom and I would go so far as to say it is the very Iron kingdom as spoken of by Daniel.

 

The idea of Rome as the Iron Kingdom is built out the misuse of Rev 17:10-11. It's impossible in my mind to think this is a prophecy of the past when Jesus tells John, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after these things.” Do we really think Rev 17:10, "...Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come;" is speaking to the past? Seriously, a prophecy is by nature future, the iteration of events is history. A real problem is"one is". This is commonly interpreted as Nero. John was exiled by Domitian in the 90's AD, long after Nero, to the Isle of Patmos, which is where John received the revelation from Jesus. If the 'one is' is Nero then 'Five have fallen...' works. But if the 'one is' is the Emperor in the time John received the revelation then it's Domitian, who is the 12th, and the popular interpretation falls apart. There's more but you get the idea; not Rome, Islam.

I assume you mean Dan 9:20.

"While I was speaking, praying, confessing my sin and that of my people Israel, and presenting my petition before the LORD my God concerning His holy hill" - Dan 9:20

Not sure how this makes your case so I'm thinking it's a typo and you meant Dan 7:20, "I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn whose appearance was more imposing than the others, with eyes and with a mouth that spoke words of arrogance."

Today's breakdown:

This could apply more so to Kim Jong Un than anyone else on the planet. Not saying it could not apply to The President but honestly; an imposing appearance, arrogant words; what politician has not done this?

But the context is not boasting about himself nor the show of arrogance in relation to political contemporaries, it's boastful words against the Most High God, it's the arrogance to lift himself up over the power of God himself.

"...and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." - 2 Thess 2

"And he shall speak [great] words against the most High," - Dan 7

"...and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart,and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;" - Dan 9

I fail to see where the context of the arrogant boasting is in the political theater. That's really meaningless as everyone is doing it. It doesn't stand apart. One boasting they are greater than the Creator does, a stark and hideous contrast to your garden variety political posturing. 

"And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods," - Dan 11

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all." - Dan 11

But to the point you make, "They're all pawns in Trump's hands." Do you have evidence of this? Putin is not a Trump pawn. Neither is Kim Un. Maduro maybe? I don't think so. I do believe most world leaders have criticized our President harshly except Netanyahu, Duterte, a handful of others. He gets most of the backlash from the Mideast and European leaders, President Xi, PM Trudeau, President Obrador, etc.

President Trump doesn't even control politics in the US, nor the politicians. 

I have no issue with ascertaining the identity of the beast, whomever it may be, but we need to be careful and stay in context, in peace, and truth, in the Spirit; This will advance the cause of Christ.

I tend to agree with you in part: 

the head of God - Babylon - Iraq - Muslim nation today

The chest of silver - Medo-Persia  - Iran - Muslim nation today

The belly of Brass - Greece

The legs of iron -  feet and toes of iron and clay - Rome - today overrun with Islamic Refugees that absolutely WON'T MIX with long time residents.

What lies EAST of the Euphrates River? Sevben 'STAN nations! Islamic nations. 

[Jonathan Dane]

On 6/23/2019 at 2:26 AM, Diaste said:

The viable candidate for the beast can come from anywhere and be anyone as far we know. The power of the beast comes from Satan after a resurrection from a deadly head wound.

"3 One of the heads of the beast appeared to be mortally wounded. But the mortal wound was healed, and the whole world marveled and followed the beast. 4 They worshiped the dragon who had given authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can wage war against it?” - Rev 13

Since scripture says, "8 Thus the goat became very great, but at the height of his power, his large horn was broken off, and four prominent horns came up in its place, pointing toward the four winds of heaven. 9 From one of these horns a little horn emerged..." -Dan 8

The little horn, or the beast, must emerge from one of the areas or leaders we know from history existed or ruled after the death of Alexander, and that from one of the following areas: Egypt, Greece, Asia Minor or Mesopotamia. Now maybe the beast must just begin the rule from Babylon and transfer the seat of power to Jerusalem but one thing is for certain; Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Alexander all ruled from the city of Babylon. Another world wide conquering entity also ruled that same region, even defeating Roman legions, Islam.

 

You're making a critical error, namely, that "anti-types" must fully mirror their corresponding "types." Daniel 8 establishes Antiochus Epiphanes as a Greek type of Antichrist. But there is nothing in Scripture that demands the Antichrist originate from the nation of Greece. Doesn't Scripture say of Christ, "Out of Egypt I called my Son."? Does that mean that the Messiah of Israel is Egyptian? By your logic - it does. 

The Antichrist will indeed be head over a revived Roman Empire. Whether or not this includes America (or Greece for that matter), there is nothing that demands he originate from Greece. (He is also called the King of Babylon, King of Tyre, the Prince of Tyre and the Prince of Israel)

By the way, I see the Little Horn, the Beast and the Antichrist as one in the same. Perhaps you see more than one individual. I disagree with those who assign various individuals for these roles. This only breeds confusion.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Jonathan Dane

[Jonathan Dane]

On 6/23/2019 at 2:06 AM, Diaste said:

Nuclear weapons are not the criteria for the rise of the beast; a resurrection and empowerment by Satan are.

 

I agree with this in principle. But the fact is that God has raised up America in these last days to be the world's unchallenged superpower. Whether it be Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Greece or Rome, God has always used the world's greatest powers in His eternal plans.

Bear in mind that the evidence I present is multi-faceted. In order to dismantle my conclusion, you will need a very large erasure. In my opinion, there are just way too many "coincidences" to ignore. 

I do not pretend to know America's distinct role in the end-times scenario. Is it Babylon? Is it part of the 10 nations? Perhaps and perhaps. My focus is much more basic and fundamental, namely, there is a leader on the world's scene who deserves our scrutiny. Is he or isn't he? That's the only riddle I attempting to answer. All the additional nuances in terms of how this all plays out I will save for the experts.

I don't want to come off as peddling my book. But that is where I have put my work - in detail. I left not one stone uncovered. You want answers, it's probably addressed there.

[simplejeff]

18 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

America in these last days to be the world's unchallenged superpower.

Sorry.  Not even .....   (maybe once, for a time).....

Besides, today, it has been destroyed from within itself .....

[simplejeff]

On 6/22/2019 at 3:13 PM, Jonathan Dane said:

Yes

So, then, the book/ research  is totally false, based on false and misleading*** information ON PURPOSE (for money or power )  ?  

**As that is not even remotely possible - and was 'proven' impossible decades ago (no, don't ask for 'sources').   

 

*** which the enemy of truth, the prince of the power of the air,  SUPPLIES GENEROUSLY --  to deceive....  AND is welcomed by multitudes !

Edited June 28, 2019 by simplejeff