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15 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

 

  • While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.  2 Corinthians 4:18

While the kingdom of Greece doesn't exist today as it once did (transient, temporary), the evil spirits behind it do still exist today (eternal).

Indeed. Even in the temporal nature the kingdoms of the diadochi still exist. Didn't want to go there and muddy the point. ?

In fact they are the kingdoms that exist to fulfill 'the latter time of their kingdoms'.

The spiritual nature will come to its destiny dragging the natural in tow.

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1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

And another thing to keep in mind when considering earthly powers is that they have a spiritual element.  They proceed forth from, or are influenced by, a spiritual counterpart.  This is something that Daniel was keenly aware of (Daniel 10) and its nearly impossible to speak of one without inferring the other.  The things that are seen are transient and temporary.  The unseen is eternal.

  • While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.  2 Corinthians 4:18

While the kingdom of Greece doesn't exist today as it once did (transient, temporary), the evil spirits behind it do still exist today (eternal).

When you grasp the concept of the spiritual realm being eternal and influencing the natural temporary realm, it becomes less difficult, along with Revelation.

That is all true. But how does that effect my conclusion?

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3 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

That is all true. But how does that effect my conclusion?

It's just something to keep in mind . . . the natural interpretation isn't necessarily the only one.

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5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not really.

Ram. Goat. Four Horns. Little horn.

Goat defeats Ram. Goat's horn broken. Four horns rise. Little horn rises from them. 

Medo-Persia. Alexander. Diadochi. Exactly as foretold.

Alexander defeated Medo-Persia, he died, and then the Diadochi. That's history and well documented. The one thing yet to occur is the rise of the little horn; that part of "the vision concerns the appointed time of the end." - Dan 8:19

"The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia." - Dan 8:20

The mention of Medo-Persia here is to identify the ram with two horns, it doesn't mean the entire interpretation of the vision is only future from Daniel and past for us since Gabriel said, "I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end."  - Dan 8:19

We cannot place Antiochus IV in the 'time of wrath' nor 'the appointed time of the end". Antiochus IV is ancient history and the time of wrath and the appointed time of the end has not come. Since the whole hullabaloo with Greece, Medo-Persia and the Diadochi has occurred some element must remain for the 'time of wrath' and 'the appointed time of the end' and that would be the little horn as everything else has been eliminated (already happened).

 

I agree with that an "element" remains. Where we disagree is whether Scripture demands that that element must belong to a particular location or bloodline. The time of the vision does belong to the end. But it finds its identity in the shadow (history). Antiochus is the focus of this particular section. I appreciate that disagree.

Edited by Jonathan Dane
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