Worship Warriors Posted June 18, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,220 Content Per Day: 1.18 Reputation: 4,858 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/18/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2019 How do you explain the triune God to a Muslim? they think that Christian are worshiping 3 gods. here is definition : One being within the One being are 3 persons One being in 3 persons. . Being and persons is not the same thing. Being- the essence that makes something what it is .for example, there are celestial beings, there are human beings, and there is one divine being. The being of God is what makes God God. He is omnipotent omnipresent all powerful Person-the essence that makes someone who he is. The personality of someone. Within my one being is one person. Within the one being of God are three persons. The three persons are co-equal and co eternal. What does this tell me about God? God is a being in communion within Himself. He is a relational God. You can’t say that God is love unless there is a lover, a beloved and the Spirit of love between them My definition of the trinity One personal God One personal God. But He can work and function in three different ways at the same time: the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. I in 3: ONE BEING but the three persons are all sharing the same one being. 3 in 1: In the ONE BEING, there are three persons. Because the three persons of the Godhead are all sharing the same being, I can say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. This is what makes Christianity so unique compared to other religions. The triune God is a personal God. He is relational. He wants to be known. That’s the nature of love. Christianity is an encounter with a personal God who has so transformed your heart that now you want to live radically for Him out of love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 18, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,786 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2019 one can make god out of anything... the Hebrew writers use the same word for describing Moloch, Baal or any numbers of entities the same as what we refer to as our God. It works like this: Quote Ex 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink. KJV John 6:44-46 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed. Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from Him. So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of is not what that the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament. Looking further: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John 1:1-10 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. KJV John 8:52-58 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament days. Jesus in this form was with the Father from the beginning. It seems to me that the people of the Old Testament days were not aware of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he existed in before he became flesh. Further: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phil 2:5-11Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the Old Testament times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the Father on earth. Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the fleshly body. `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. KJV John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` 1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him........ The Father. I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over all and giving it to the Father. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1 Cor 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ But to us, there is but one God, The Father of whom all things came from...... And one Lord, Jesus whom we call the Christ, through which all things came including us. And we have the Holy Spirit which was sent to us from the Father at the request of Jesus. Interestingly, all three are one in thought, one in purpose, and one in action. We can't interface with the Father without being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and we can't have the Holy Spirit without the sacrifice and request of Jesus, and we couldn't have had Jesus without the Father asking Him to do what he has done for us. You have to have all three or none. And thus they are one. We make a big production out of the trinity when it is really not mysterious or hard to see, we just need to get past what we have done with the definition of the word god. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worship Warriors Posted June 19, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,220 Content Per Day: 1.18 Reputation: 4,858 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/18/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 But God told Moses that his name is YAHWEH. that means he is always good, always merciful , always forgiving. He does not change, he is the one who was and is and forever will be the same. the other gods of all the religion does not have the name YAHWEH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky and George Posted June 24, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 394 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 197 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/26/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1983 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Guys if you want to witness to a Muslim then do this. 1. Listen to their story first with a cup of tea or whatever they have ? 2. Once you have "earnt the right". Say that the Holy trinity is like this: God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. Just like water, vapour and ice are three different forms of water but the same. 3. Loving them is the only and best way. Bless ya! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky and George Posted June 25, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 394 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 197 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/26/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1983 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Oh and.. 4. Your ultimate aim is to get a big hug lol. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breathoflife Posted October 5, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 145 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2019 The best way I ever heard to explain the trinity is mug of ice water. You have three different forms of water, ice, water and vapor that are three but all one, water. Simple and people relate to it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted October 5, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.32 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted October 5, 2019 On 6/17/2019 at 11:16 PM, Worship Warriors said: How do you explain the triune God to a Muslim? they think that Christian are worshiping 3 gods. here is definition : One being within the One being are 3 persons One being in 3 persons. . Being and persons is not the same thing. Being- the essence that makes something what it is .for example, there are celestial beings, there are human beings, and there is one divine being. The being of God is what makes God God. He is omnipotent omnipresent all powerful Person-the essence that makes someone who he is. The personality of someone. Within my one being is one person. Within the one being of God are three persons. The three persons are co-equal and co eternal. What does this tell me about God? God is a being in communion within Himself. He is a relational God. You can’t say that God is love unless there is a lover, a beloved and the Spirit of love between them My definition of the trinity One personal God One personal God. But He can work and function in three different ways at the same time: the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. I in 3: ONE BEING but the three persons are all sharing the same one being. 3 in 1: In the ONE BEING, there are three persons. Because the three persons of the Godhead are all sharing the same being, I can say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. This is what makes Christianity so unique compared to other religions. The triune God is a personal God. He is relational. He wants to be known. That’s the nature of love. Christianity is an encounter with a personal God who has so transformed your heart that now you want to live radically for Him out of love. Christians don't agree among themselves what the Trinity is. I have been harrassed on Christian sites (not this one) for my belief that God is simultaneously a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted October 14, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted October 14, 2019 On 6/18/2019 at 2:16 AM, Worship Warriors said: How do you explain the triune God to a Muslim? they think that Christian are worshiping 3 gods. here is definition : One being within the One being are 3 persons One being in 3 persons. . Being and persons is not the same thing. Being- the essence that makes something what it is .for example, there are celestial beings, there are human beings, and there is one divine being. The being of God is what makes God God. He is omnipotent omnipresent all powerful Person-the essence that makes someone who he is. The personality of someone. Within my one being is one person. Within the one being of God are three persons. The three persons are co-equal and co eternal. What does this tell me about God? God is a being in communion within Himself. He is a relational God. You can’t say that God is love unless there is a lover, a beloved and the Spirit of love between them My definition of the trinity One personal God One personal God. But He can work and function in three different ways at the same time: the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. I in 3: ONE BEING but the three persons are all sharing the same one being. 3 in 1: In the ONE BEING, there are three persons. Because the three persons of the Godhead are all sharing the same being, I can say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. This is what makes Christianity so unique compared to other religions. The triune God is a personal God. He is relational. He wants to be known. That’s the nature of love. Christianity is an encounter with a personal God who has so transformed your heart that now you want to live radically for Him out of love. You don't try to explain it, you instead focus on the gospel and their lack of assurance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblican Posted March 18, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.42 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2020 I was challengd by a Muslim a few years ago, who accused me of being a polytheist for believing in the Trinity or the tri-unity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So I spent two years determined to produce an explanation just from the scriptures which I have published. My take on it is, if you can't explain it from God's word, then we have no business teaching it as God's word. Here is a link to a free version, and I hope it answers a lot of your questions, it did for me. - https://www.cafelogos.org/trinityebook.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Christian 1985 Posted March 29, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2020 God is Triune! The Triune God There is nothing more mysterious or enigmatic than the Triune God. How utterly foolish are the attempts by men to systematize God in their futile efforts to understand Him with the human mind. As we will see God is totally beyond mental comprehension. How fortunate that it is absolutely unnecessary for us to comprehend God in order to apprehend Him. God only requires us to receive Him and be one in Him. But how many Christians have been distracted into trying to comprehend God, thinking that in so doing, they are growing spiritually. How subtle is our adversary! ... baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: (Matt. 28:19). Anyone vaguely aware of the Bible knows that the God of Christians is a God of three Persons, yet few people realize the significance behind this. and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. (Luke 3:22) According to our mentality, this verse proves that there are three separate persons: the Father in heaven, the Son on the earth, and the Holy Spirit as a dove. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ... (Eph. 1:2‑3). Logical mental understanding of these verses proves that God the Father is a distinctly separate entity from the Lord Jesus Christ. Looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13) But this verse refers to Christ as our God and Savior. Mentally, logic would tell us that we must have two Gods‑ God the Father and God the Son. ... how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? (Luke 11:13) The former treatise I made, 0 Theophilus, concerning all that Jesus began both to do and to teach, until the day in which he was received up, after that he had given commandment through the Holy Spirit unto the apostles whom he had ordained: (Acts 1:1‑2). Obviously (according to mental logic), the Holy Spirit must be an entity distinctly separate from the Father and the Son. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thy heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it remained, did it not remain thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thy power? How is it that thou hast conceived this thing in thy heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. (Acts 5:3‑4) A comparison of these two verses shows that the Holy Spirit is equated with God. Do we have three different gods? For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus. (1 Tim. 2:5) Clearly, God and Christ are separate, according to logical mental evaluation of this verse. …and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. (Gal.3: 19‑20 RSV) Yet this verse states definitely that Christ and God are not two, but one. who hath declared it of old? have not I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides me, a just God and a Savior; there is none besides me. (Isa. 45:21) There is one, and only one, God. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulders: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Isa 9:6) The child who is born unto us is here called the Mighty God, and the son given unto us is called the Everlasting Father. This child, of course, is Jesus Christ. Can the mind comprehend that the Son is called the Father? No. All we can say is Wonderful! And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father ... (Rev. 1:6 Intl. Greek). “Unto God and his Father.” Try to smoke that in a theological pipe! God has a Father? This does not compute, mentally. but of the Son he saith, Thy throne, 0 God, is forever and ever. . . . (Heb. 1:8) Here the Son is directly called God. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: (Eph. 6:17) According to the original Greek, which refers to Spirit. Thus here we are told that the Spirit is the word of God. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us ... (John 1:1, 14). ... Christ: for in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, (Col. 2:8‑9). Here we are told that the Word was God and the Word became flesh. So the Spirit is the Word, God is the Word, and this Word, which is God and the Spirit, became flesh, Christ. Do you still think that you can mentally comprehend God? If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.... Jesus saith unto him, “Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how say eat thou, Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the father in me? ... (John 14:7, 9‑10). Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am. (John 8:68) I (Jesus) said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am. (John 10:30) Jesus Christ is God, manifested in the flesh. For I know that this shall turn out to my salvation, through your supplication and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. (Phil. 1:19) And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, saying, Abba, Father. (Gal. 4:6) Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? (1 Cor. 3:16) Or know ye not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? (1 Cor. 6:19) Believers have the Holy Spirit in them, the Spirit of God in them, and the Spirit of Christ the Son in them. Are these three separate Spirits? But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thy heart to lie to the Holy Spirit ... But Peter said unto her, How is it that you have agreed together to try the Spirit of the Lord? ... (Acts 5:3, 9). Here we see, by comparing these two verses, that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Lord. … These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, ... (Rev. 3:1) ... and from the seven Spirits that are before his throne; (Rev. 1:4). which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the Earth. (Rev. 5:6) Just a short interruption here in order to prevent a possible misunderstanding: The number seven in the scriptures signifies completion and/or intensification, in this age. Seven Spirits in these verses does not mean literally seven different Spirits; rather, it signifies that today God's Spirit is intensified seven fold in this age in order to accomplish the completion of His purpose. But unto us God revealed them through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (1 Cor. 2:10) ... because the love of God hath been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit, which was given unto us. (Rom. 5:5) The Holy Spirit is the aspect of the Triune God who applies to us all that God is and has accomplished. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.... but the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you. (John 14:16‑17, 26) A little while, and ye behold me no more; and again a little while, and ye shall see me. (John 16:16) And when he had said this, he (Jesus) breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit: (John 20:22). And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. (Acts 1:9) And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened. And the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. (Acts 7:56) ... and lo, I am with you always, even unto the consummation of the age. (Matt. 28:20) How is it possible that Christ is both in the heavens at the right hand of God and yet He is with us always? Or know ye not as to your own selves that Jesus Christ is in you? ... (2 Cor. 13:6). In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. ... and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:20, 23) How can Christ (and the Father) come into us? Only as the Spirit! He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not (John 1:10) hath at the end of these day spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; (Heb. 1:2) ...even the blood of Christ: who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of the times for your sake. (1 Pet. 1: 19‑20) God has always intended even in eternity past, to partake of His creation by incarnation. This is because it is only through incarnation that He will achieve His purpose. Concerning which salvation the prophets sought and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: searching what time or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did point unto, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow them. (1 Pet. 1:10‑11) What we can say about the Triune God is the following: 1. God as the Father is the source of all things, but as the Father no man has seen Him. 2. God as the Son expressed fully (in human form) to the universe everything that God is. 3. Yet everything that God the Father is and all that the Son has accomplished has no value to us if it cannot be made available to us. Thus, after Christ fulfilled God's purpose, He was resurrected bodily as a God‑man, and ascended the throne in heaven, re‑entering eternity. Then He became the Spirit, so that this could be applied to us for our benefit by His Spirit coming into our spirit, making all that He is and all that He has done available to us. If you are born again, you have both the Father and the Son in you as the Spirit. But there are some barely comprehensible implications from this. From the standpoint of eternity, where there is no time, Christ has always been and has always accomplished His work of incarnation and redemption. Thus it is that Christ keeps popping up in a hidden sort of way in the Old Testament, before (time wise) His incarnation. And Jehovah appeared unto him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him: ... but Abraham stood yet before Jehovah. (Gen. 18:1‑2, 22) And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. ... And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed.... And Jacob called the name of the place Penial: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (Gen. 32:24, 28,30) And the angel of Jehovah said unto him, wherefore askest thou after my name, seeing it is wonderful? ... But the angel of Jehovah did no more appear to Manoah or to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was the angel of Jehovah. And Manoah said unto his wife, we shall surely die, because we have seen God. (Judg. 13:18, 21‑22) God the Father is spirit, yet in these Old Testament verses, He shows up as a man. How is this possible? Because the living God is not just God: He is God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Father, glorify thy name. There came therefore a voice out of heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.... Jesus answered and said, This voice hath not come for my sake, but for your sakes. (John 12:28‑30) We see here that heavenly special effects were for the benefit of onlookers, being otherwise unnecessary. But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:39) Although Christ, from an eternal standpoint, has always done His work of incarnation and redemption, we are living a temporal existence in time. So, from our viewpoint in time, God before the incarnation was God the Father only; since the incarnation He is expressed also as the Son, and since the ascension as the Holy Spirit. This is why, even though Christ was around in the Old Testament times, His work could not be available to the Old Testament believers. The Old Testament believers could only took forward to the coming of Christ by faith and a few would express God's authority by being clothed in an outward way with His Spirit, but they could not experience regeneration in their human spirit. God abides by His temporal rules: only after the ascension could men be regenerated. And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ... And God said, behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed ... (Gen. 1:26, 29). God refers to Himself as us in one verse and three verses later refers to Himself as I. Is God us or is God I? Is God three or is God one? And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, whom shall I end, and who will go for us? ... (Isa. 6:8). Again, is God I or is God us? Do you really think that you can understand God with your mind? The living God is not just God; he is expressed in three Persons, which are not separate persons but three different aspects of the same God. Mentally, it is impossible for something to be two different things at the same time. But God is three and God is one, both and the same. The living God, the God of all Christians, is not merely God‑ He is Triune‑ being the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit‑ yet He is one. He is expressed as three Persons, yet these three are one. God is one and God is three. God is one‑in‑three and God is also three‑in‑one. Do not try to make God conform to any kind of mental understanding; all such striving is vain and pointless. The reason our God is Triune is so we can receive Him and He can come into us. All this can only be experienced by us in and with our human spirit, not with our mind. If you are vainly trying to understand God mentally, you are missing the boat spiritually. What we can say is this: the living God is Triune, by no means is He the same as the god of the world's religions‑ that is the god of their imagination, even the god of this world. Also, we are no longer limited to experiencing the God of the Old Testament. This is the age of the New Testament. Today we experience Jehovah plus! Today we have God the Father plus all that He has accomplished as a man in the Son. All this is as available to us today as the air around us; we just have to learn how to use our spiritual lungs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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