simplejeff Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, NickyLouse said: Otherwise, we would all surely lose our salvation. This is not a valid statement, and is not found in Scripture. The previous arguments before this in the post are subject to serious testing by Scripture to see if they are true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, NickyLouse said: They have not lost salvation, but they have lost their rewards. If there remains no longer any sacrifice for their sins, then death is what they get as the penalty for sin, as stated throughout Scripture. They do not lose their rewards only, but their life. (there remains no way left for them to be forgiven of their sin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyLouse Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 268 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/30/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/2004 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 minute ago, simplejeff said: 6 minutes ago, NickyLouse said: Otherwise, we would all surely lose our salvation. This is not a valid statement, and is not found in Scripture. The previous arguments before this in the post are subject to serious testing by Scripture to see if they are true or not. My contention is not that anyone can ever lose their salvation. The only way that one could possibly lose it or undo the atoning sacrifice of Christ is if they had something to do with their salvation in the first place. We don't have anything to do with our salvation. Only after we have been saved can we do anything good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyLouse Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 268 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/30/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/2004 Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, simplejeff said: 9 minutes ago, NickyLouse said: They have not lost salvation, but they have lost their rewards. If there remains no longer any sacrifice for their sins, then death is what they get as the penalty for sin, as stated throughout Scripture. They do not lose their rewards only, but their life. (there remains no way left for them to be forgiven of their sin). You are reading that into the text. That is not what it says. It says that they can no longer be renewed unto repentance - not salvation. You can only introduce salvation into the passage if you believe that your repentance had something to do with your salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted June 28, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2019 14 hours ago, simplejeff said: This is what is written, and verified, in line with all Scripture. (NOT "logically" as if by man's logic - God is not subject to man's anything, including not subject to man's logic ---- even mankind's BEST WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE is foolishness leading to destruction, as written in Scripture, Yahuweh's Word, TRUTH.) It is woefully grievous and breaks out hearts that so many people are deceived continually, and that even some who once had steadfast faith turned away because of some trouble or test, and failed to endure to the end. "BE TERRIFIED" lest anyone (else) does not make it to the end! (written somewhere in Hebrews, etc) Man didn't invent logic--God did, and God is never illogical. Many fine Christians affirm eternal security. Many fine Christians believe a Christian may lose salvation, then repent to find it again--although I would say repentance moves someone towards salvation and is not salvation. I say the Christian has eternal security. But your belief that a Christian who slips up not only is lost but can only go to Hell and never find grace a second time is illogical and against all we know about the kindness and mercy of God. How can you read something like the parable of the prodigal son and believe that kind of nonsense? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coemgen Posted June 29, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 37 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) SHalom, @NickyLouse : Thank you for your commentary, but the destruction of a reward does not match with the context : Hebrew 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Hebrew 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? The faith in Jesus is not the certitude in a "knowledge" (Jesus died for us), but as I said, it is connected to the word "obedience". @Billiards Ball : Shalom. Yes, a believer can receive forgiveness after believing in Jesus (Eternal knows his heart and his behavior). However, a believer can also lose his salvation, the parable of the prodigal son can be understood like "a jew" who opens his eyes in Yeshoua (the chance for salvation) for the first time. For example, if a group of Israeli did not respect his father, they can back to him through Jesus (the feast in the parable) and keeps the commandments in the manner of the first son who did not sin (Luke 15:29). Sincerely. Edited June 29, 2019 by Coemgen spelling mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted June 30, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 875 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 757 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/04/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 6/18/2019 at 3:31 PM, LeeGreenForest said: Is believing in Jesus enough for salvation according to John 3:16? In my understanding, Jesus in his earthly ministry was only for the Israelites. After his work on the cross, I believe the verse to look to is 1Corinthians 15:1-4. It takes into consideration the resurrection. It’s the glorious gospel to the gentiles. Romans also spells it out. John 3:16 is for Israel. John could not proclaim the resurrection in his Gospel. The gospels are for the hope of Israel. Jesus came for them. He died and was resurrected for the whole world. You will find your salvation in the epistles of Paul. Truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted June 30, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.92 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kristin said: In my understanding, Jesus in his earthly ministry was only for the Israelites. After his work on the cross, I believe the verse to look to is 1Corinthians 15:1-4. It takes into consideration the resurrection. It’s the glorious gospel to the gentiles. Romans also spells it out. John 3:16 is for Israel. John could not proclaim the resurrection in his Gospel. The gospels are for the hope of Israel. Jesus came for them. He died and was resurrected for the whole world. You will find your salvation in the epistles of Paul. Truth. The guy at the NFL games with the funny wig,displaying the “ Jesus Saves” placard does good.....He would do better to change it to “1 Cor15:1-4 Saves”( might take a bigger placard ..lol) Now dont anybody get their panties twisted in a knot! John 3:16 gets the job done, but it is not the verse of Scripture we will be judged by. 1 cor15:1-4 IS. When Paul met with Jesus in the Sinai Desert, Jesus could have repeated John 3:16.He didn’t. If Jesus said one thing in the past and then after His resurrection said another thing, I think one should go with the latest.....I don’t believe it is a MUST, but it may be the BEST.Faith in the resurrection sure seems to be a biggie all over Paul’s Epistles. Edited June 30, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted June 30, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,602 Content Per Day: 4.02 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) In Gadarene, the demons said, "Thou Son of The Most High..." Etc. That is because they were NOT in Israeli territory. Also the trips to other non-Israel territory or places that the Jews hated, like The Samaritan areas. Yeshua KNEW He was here to minister to the whole world. "Even the little dogs eat from the master's table crumbs..." The demons recognized Yeshua's worldly dominance and Authority. Why we cannot see that boggles the mind. He and the Father are/were/continue to be ONE. He is the Father, The Comforter, the Messiah, The Lord of all. Always was and evermore shall be so. Yeshua means, Ya IS salvation. Edited June 30, 2019 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 30, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 593 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 55,864 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,618 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Justin Adams said: In Gadarene, the demons said, "Thou Son of The Most High..." Etc. That is because they were NOT in Israeli territory. Also the trips to other non-Israel territory or places that the Jews hated, like The Samaritan areas. Yeshua KNEW He was here to minister to the whole world. "Even the little dogs eat from the master's table crumbs..." The demons recognized Yeshua's worldly dominance and Authority. Why we cannot see that boggles the mind. He and the Father are/were/continue to be ONE. He is the Father, The Comforter, the Messiah, The Lord of all. Always was and evermore shall be so. Yeshua means, Ya IS salvation. Jesus can not be the Father... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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