Not me Posted June 19, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,184 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,349 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2019 Romans 14:23 (NASB) But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin. “whatever is not from faith is sin” Faith in our lives is called to be the thing that distinguishes us from all else. Knowledge of scripture is not faith. Faith is faith, and knowledge is knowledge. Faith may proceed from knowledge, and knowledge proceed from experience, but they are all to the growing of that which is the end game; our faith. It is our faith in God that is to be the strength of our lives. The very heart or center, the dividing line between that which is sin, and that which isn’t. Faith or sin. The two categories of all things. Faith or sin. Whatever is not one is the other. Having faith in God; In, by, from, and for all things. For God is God, and God is good, and we are not. If it is not God, it is not good. If it is not good, it is sin. Sin we can produce on our own, good we can not. So faith takes the place of the good we can not produce on our own. Whatever is not from faith is sin. Which is as much as saying if it’s from us or self, it’s sin. A looking away from ourselves to the source of all good is what is called for. For the just shall live by faith, this isn’t a one time faith and now were back to the limitations of that which we can do. The just shall live by looking off to another all the days of their lives. Through that which they understand or that which they don’t. This faith we are called to is to be the ever present center or door that opens up the working of God in our lives. For God has simplified it down to the two, faith or sin. Whatever is not one is the other. The joy and peace and security there is in believing and having faith in God. Having faith in this one Who is good. Having faith that the good and righteous and loving thing exists and it is a embodied in a Person and this Person has a name and this Person’s heart is toward us. So to the getting to know this Person personally is that which causes our faith to grow. For when we know this One who is good, and we see that all else is not good, the good and honest heart longs to be joined with this one Who is good. For we have all been called to the good, let us answer the call with good and honest and open hearts knowing that if it’s not, faith, it’s sin. Blessings, Much love in Christ, Not me 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 19, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2019 Faith is a gift from God we do not esrn it nor do we deserve it. Note the quote from Romans has nothing to do with faith so should not have been quoted. A verse taken out of context is a pretext for a proof text. R14 is about eating meat sacrificed to idols. It is bad exegsis, potentally misleading the vunerable to believe that there doubts are sinful, when there is nothing wrong with doubts or questions, provided one is searching for biblical answers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 19, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,184 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,349 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Who me said: Faith is a gift from God we do not esrn it nor do we deserve it. Note the quote from Romans has nothing to do with faith so should not have been quoted. A verse taken out of context is a pretext for a proof text. R14 is about eating meat sacrificed to idols. It is bad exegsis, potentally misleading the vunerable to believe that there doubts are sinful, when there is nothing wrong with doubts or questions, provided one is searching for biblical answers. You don’t think this scripture is putting forth the eternal truth that “whatever is not faith is sin?” That’s fine. It is true faith is a gift from God. So I wish you well as you exercise your gift from God, and grow in your faith and hope and love in and towards God. Blessings, Much love in Christ, Not me Edited June 19, 2019 by Not me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 20, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2019 17 hours ago, Not me said: You don’t think this scripture is putting forth the eternal truth that “whatever is not faith is sin?” That’s fine. It is true faith is a gift from God. So I wish you well as you exercise your gift from God, and grow in your faith and hope and love in and towards God. Blessings, Much love in Christ, Not me Romans 14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin. Is the whole verse, but the context is about weak faith v strong faith and supporting the weak faith particularly in the area of meat offered to idols/demons. In that context it is wrong to say that a hoby of bird watching is sinful just as much as it is wrong to say having doubts or questons about Christianity is sinful. You may believe that everything in life that does not involve faith is sin, it will lead to to a very dull life or to some far fetched interpretations so you can live a life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 20, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,184 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,349 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Who me said: Romans 14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin. Is the whole verse, but the context is about weak faith v strong faith and supporting the weak faith particularly in the area of meat offered to idols/demons. In that context it is wrong to say that a hoby of bird watching is sinful just as much as it is wrong to say having doubts or questons about Christianity is sinful. You may believe that everything in life that does not involve faith is sin, it will lead to to a very dull life or to some far fetched interpretations so you can live a life. Hi; If you would allow me a few words; I think you mistake the whole meaning of the scripture. Though it is true the scripture is using food as an example. It is for the purpose of something much larger. There are two sources for all of mankind’s behavior, Christ or self. Christ is being represented as the Faith because Faith in Christ is how Christians are to walk 24/7 in their daily lives. So Faith is put forth as a source of all good, which in truth it is. Not living by/in through faith in Christ in all things including bird watching would in fact be sin for all things regardless of how innocent the action may seem to our human reasoning if it comes from self it is sin. This is the truth that this scripture is putting forth this is why it says; “and everything that does not come from faith is sin.” the “everything” is meant to mean that “everything” and that does mean everything that is not done in faith is sin. For scripture says emphatically as a main stay of Christianity that the “just shall live by faith”. For Christianity is not just a bunch of rules to follow after one mentally consents to Christ having died on the cross for them. It is having a personal one and one relationship with Him daily and that relationship is growing daily in the heart and that relationship can and only can grow by the faith of the heart growing and be increased. Henceforth the scripture calls faith the constant necessity of this relationship between the believer and their Savior a walk of faith, a life of faith, a constant looking off to Jesus to do in us what we can not do for ourselves, which is to walk in newness of life. For it is this newness of life being manifested in our life’s daily is the testimony of Christ living His life in and through us, that is the whole of Christianity. Christ in us being our Hope of Glory and that not being hoped or had faith in 24/7 is sin regardless of any outward activity. For the faith of the heart should always be towards righteousness for Christ is the King of Righteousness for to righteousness we have all been called. Seeing how we of our own devices can not achieve such a perfection our only hope is that as scripture says the “works of the law might be fulfilled in us”. Scripture says “in us” not “by us” and this can only be manifested or brought about by the faith of the heart turned towards God continually 24/7 therefore the scripture says ; “that everything that does not come from faith is sin” But if you have a different opinions on this that is fine. It is our personal relationship(s) with Christ that is to teach us all things, so I wish you all good things in Christ as you, me, all that call upon His name with a honest and pure heart would be continually growing up unto Him in all things. Blessings and may God fill our hearts with Himself in a new and awesome way. Much love in Christ, Not me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 21, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2019 To bring this upto date. Many supermarkets and processed food companies are now using 'halal meat. That is an animal ritual slaughter according to islamic rites. There are several issues, this is not always made public, animal welfare and the reciting of an islamic prayer as its throat is cut. As Paul explans a weak Christian may refrain from eating meat sacrificed to allah, but have their faith damaged by the thoughtless use of halal meat in church meals. If one does not totally believe that Jesus is ones Lord there eating of such meat is sinfull. An action is not automaticaly sinful just because one has done it. Drinking tea is no more sinful than reading the bible. Reading the bible without seeking to worship God is sinful, drinking tea while being thankfull is not sinfull. We are coming at this from different angles, and have fairly similar ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 21, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,184 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,349 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 hours ago, Who me said: To bring this upto date. Many supermarkets and processed food companies are now using 'halal meat. That is an animal ritual slaughter according to islamic rites. There are several issues, this is not always made public, animal welfare and the reciting of an islamic prayer as its throat is cut. As Paul explans a weak Christian may refrain from eating meat sacrificed to allah, but have their faith damaged by the thoughtless use of halal meat in church meals. If one does not totally believe that Jesus is ones Lord there eating of such meat is sinfull. An action is not automaticaly sinful just because one has done it. Drinking tea is no more sinful than reading the bible. Reading the bible without seeking to worship God is sinful, drinking tea while being thankfull is not sinfull. We are coming at this from different angles, and have fairly similar ideas. You are correct in what you have put forth about those having strong or weak faith and the reason they may or may not eat is what the scripture is putting forth. But the very last part of the scripture puts forth the “why” it is so. And that is because; “whatever is not from faith is sin” This is the “why” that the strong or weak Christian may or may not eat. Because one has faith to eat and one doesn’t. This truth of “whatever is not from faith is sin” is not just limited to the eating of meat. It is a universal truth that covers all things. And it was and is that truth the OP was about. For as I stated above there are only two sources of the doing of all things.... “Christ or self”.....This is unchangeable can never get more or less, all things fall into one of these two categories. If Christ in a believer is the doer of a thing the thing regardless of what it is has the blessings of God upon it. If self is the doer of the thing regardless of what man’s judgement might be on the thing it is sin simply because it comes from the sin factory and is therefore self-ish in it’s nature because In comes from self. The reason why all things that self does is sin is because “self” is that life that elevates itself above that which is right. This is why a total and complete denial of self is called for in all it’s forms. As you correctly stated it is not the drinking of tea that is a sinful act in itself, it is the fact of where this act comes from. If it comes from the flesh which is another word that describes self, it is sin because it comes from the flesh or self. This is why faith and walking by the faith of the heart turned toward God at all times and at all seasons is the one salvation for all mankind. A turning from self to God. (which is what repentance is, from it’s true ground) I once again wish you well as you continue to press and search into Christ with all your heart, for He has most certainly promised to be continually found by those that do. Blessings, Much love in Christ, Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted June 21, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.24 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2019 On 6/19/2019 at 7:07 AM, Not me said: You don’t think this scripture is putting forth the eternal truth that “whatever is not faith is sin?” That’s fine. It is true faith is a gift from God. So I wish you well as you exercise your gift from God, and grow in your faith and hope and love in and towards God. Blessings, Much love in Christ, Not me I agree with your position, that doing things with doubt is sin. It is not great faith verses lesser faith. Food sacrificed to idols can be sin for one but not for another based on whether or not they regard the idols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted June 21, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 hours ago, Who me said: Drinking tea is no more sinful than reading the bible. My mother enjoyed reading her bible while drinking a cup of coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 21, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,184 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,349 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Firm Foundation said: I agree with your position, that doing things with doubt is sin. Hi, Thanks for your response; but I must speak; I’m sorry, I think you misconstrue my position. It is not; “doing things from doubt is sin.” It is; “whatever is not from faith is sin.” This; “whatever is not from faith is sin.” This is speaking of the correct faith that frees a believer from the dictates of their fallen nature’s. Which is the faith that continually reckons itself dead to sin and alive unto God. For people have faith in all sorts of things in this world, it is only the correct faith, and this correct faith alone that frees a person/believer from themselves/self. For self is all the evil or sin a believer possesses. For it is to the degree the believer is made free from themselves (their fallen nature’s) to that degree will they walk in freedom from sin. This is the universal truth, of, “the just shall walk, work, live by faith” For as we walk by faith in and towards God, great doubts can and will creep in. This has no bearing on whether we have the correct faith or not. Doubts are natural, they will be with us to a degree in our journey through this life. Even Paul said he had “doubts within” this means nothing towards someone’s faith. It is getting your eyes off of Christ and onto those doubts that causes the issues, and victory or defeat in whatever area is being worked on by God at that moment of time. But you are correct in the statement of it being whether or not they regard the idols. Sorry to speak so boldly, do not mean to offend. Blessings, Much love in Christ, Not me Edited June 21, 2019 by Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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