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Who is the Holy Spirit and the purpose in the trinity?


Journey365

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On 7/23/2019 at 2:11 AM, George said:

Shalom Journey365,

This thread has gotten "interesting" and a lot of confusion seems to abound.  So let me make it as clear as I can make it.  I believe we can have a personal relationship with God!  How do we have a personal relationship with God?  The disciples had a personal relationship with God -- as they walked and talked with Jesus.  And then Jesus said, I leave you -- and I must -- for the Holy Spirit will guide you and bring to remembrance all that we spoke of -- this was the transformation of a EXTERNAL personal relationship -- to a INTERNAL personal relationship with God the disciples experienced.  This personal relationship that we can have with God is through His Spirit.  The Holy Spirit can be "grieved" -- the Holy Spirit makes "intercession" for us -- the Holy Spirit "convicts" us -- this a PERSONAL relationship we have with God is through His Holy Spirit.

So try not to "overthink" as if you can truly "understand" everything about God -- simply trust and know Him!  :)

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

GINOLJC, first thanks for the reply, second, yes,  I believe we can have a personal relationship with God, and him only. not saying that you're right or wrong, but knowledge without understanding can cause one to worship an idol, and definitely we don't wnat to do that.  we have come to believe that we must worship the ONE TRUE GOD, and not a title of his made into a separate and distinct person, that's all. we should know who we're worshipping. we believe strictly in  Deuteronomy 6:4, but we know that God is a plurality of his "OWN"self. meaning that it's only ONE PERSON whom we worship and serve. it's just a simple mistake in identity with titles. by just not knowing.

 

PICJAG.

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GINOLJC, to all.  lets advance this topic a bit futher.  the term "Father", when used as a noun also means "MAKER", "CREATOR", and "ORIGINATOR". yes another word for "MAKER" is FATHER. you can find this definition at  https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/maker.html
this is why we pushed the John 1:1, John 1:3 and the Isaiah 44:24 question so much. the Maker of all things is the Father, hence the Word, in John 1:1 is the "FATHER" manifested in Flesh, (per John 1:14). but the term "Father" also means "The FIRST", the Originator, as in the First and the Last. and JESUS is the First and the Last in Both the OT and the NT. Jesus is the First in the OT as Spirit, the title Father and "MAKER" of all things. and he's the "LAST", or the "END" of all these things, or the Last Adam.

so the Person in John 1:3 is the same person in Isaiah 44:24, just only "shared" in flesh.

so the "MAKER" of all things in Isaiah 44:24 is the same one Person in John 1:3 who is the "LAST", or the Son. 

PICJAG.

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On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 7:21 PM, Takoda said:

Allow me to illustrate this with the central Christian symbol, the idea of God as a Trinity. Is that a truth about God or a description of human experience? Is a knowledge of God’s being ever a human possibility? Are not definitions of God always definitions of human experience? Theology thus is always about my understanding of God, not about God. The doctrine of the Holy Trinity, therefore, describes the evolving of the human experience. It was certainly not a revealed truth, nor was it the way the earliest Christians understood God. Paul, for example, was clearly not a Trinitarian. For the Jewish Paul, God was “One;” nothing approached or modified that “Oneness.” Paul says in Romans that God “designated” Jesus as “Son of God in power according to the spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom. 1:4). God is the designator, Jesus is the one designated; that is not co-equality or Trinitarian. Paul said that the life Jesus lived, he lived to God. We become alive to God through Jesus, he asserted. For Paul, Jesus was a doorway into the ultimate, Jesus was not “the ultimate.” God, as “Father” reflected ideas from the childhood of our humanity. God was the protective power that human beings sought desperately to access. To make the power of God work for them was the essence of worship and of religion. This distant, powerful, parent-deity was believed to have the ability to control the weather, cure sicknesses and defeat one’s enemies. Natural disasters like the flood at the time of Noah resulted from the human failure to keep God’s law. Our hymns still express that hope. We sing: “Eternal Father, strong to save, whose arm hath bound the restless wave.” Floods, tidal waves and tsunamis, however, reveal that the restless waves were not bound.

 

Religion, including Christianity, in this period of human history was childlike based on a protective deity. In many ways, early Christianity was a religion of fear and control. Because we had failed to be pleasing to God, Christianity became a religion of penitence, guilt and a begging for mercy. We were not allowed to grow up. We were children seeking to please the powerful “Father” or parent God. It is hard to grow up until we leave the “Father’s house.”

 

Developing Christology was one of the things that allowed us to begin to grow out of this childlike religious form. Christology arose in the late third and early fourth centuries with the suggestion that God had entered human life, which served to give human life a dignity it had not had before. As Christianity came to understand itself in this new way, we began to tell the story of the father God, who by drawing near to us, suffered the consequences of being in the human arena of pain and death and who called us into a new level of humanity. Of course, the Jesus story got corrupted in the telling of it. The idea that God could take on human form, however, meant that we had come to an awareness that humanity might have a potential we had never realized before. It was a major shift in consciousness. Next we began to entertain the story of the Holy Spirit, which universalized the Christ story. Now all people, not just Jesus, could be God-filled. 

 

 

I agree. That post was quite brilliant!

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2 hours ago, Takoda said:

I agree. That post was quite brilliant!

did you forget which account you were logged into?

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To answer the OP. He is the WITNESS of the Glory of God in the earth. Second temple literature focuses on the coming Messiah, the regathering of the scattered tribes AND the scattered nations. This is the beginning of the end of the Israeli idea of tribulations. I.e. when they were carried away due to forsaking the Lord God and going after 'other gods' - the members of the High Council that wanted their nations to worship them and make horrible sacrifices to them.

The Israelis yearned for the return of God to Zion and this was accomplished at Pentecost and slowly, throughout the world, the lost nations and houses of Israel were brought back. Just as God promised in Ezekiel, Hosea, Isiah, Jeremiah etc.

So the Holy Spirit heralded the return of God to Zion. Something the Israelis would have seen right away.

Problem with our lack of good teaching about the COSMOLOGY of God is that we do not see all this from the perspective of the apostles, and therefore lack much understanding. Then our 'teachers' weave fables and end times scenarios around tit-bits of visions and promises that are by nature obscured and non-linear.

"Had they but known, they never would have killed the King of Glory..."

Paul (Saul) proclaims that "All Israel will be saved". This is a theological rendition of God's aforementioned statement that he will regather all Israel (tribes and nations) including all non-Israeli believers into one fold. The Theological Israel. (Not the ethnic Israel).

Edited by Justin Adams
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