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Mohammad al Mahdi


choir loft

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Take a long look at the thread titles in this group and you'll see a nauseous amount of text devoted to minor prophetic subjects only Christians believe are important.

Eschatology, as a study of End Times events predicted by scripture, isn't the exclusive purview of Christendom.   In fact, Islam is as infected with the madness as much as evangelical Christians.  The central characters in both sets of predictions are the person of Jesus, called Isa in the Qur'an, and a militant leader who rides across the stage of history to establish global justice and the proper worship of god.  In both Christian and Muslim scenarios this militant leader sets out to establish his program by means of the effusion of blood.  Christians call him the Beast, the anti-Christ, while Muslims call him Mohammad al-Mahdi, the twelfth imam of a renewed caliphate of Islam.

In the year 1054, about half way through the middle ages, the communion between the western church and eastern church divorced.  Its now known as the Great Schism. Without going into specific detail, the cause of the division was a control issue.  Was the Bishop of Rome going to be the sole arbiter of Christian thought and liturgy or were individual churches to be allowed that right?   Rome wanted to rule all, while the eastern churches refused to yield their freedom to the Pope.  From that time until the present the eastern church has been off the radar of every theologian historian and discussion among the people of the western church - including American Protestants.  There is simply no eastern church at all as far as they are concerned.   Unfortunately they are wrong.

A fine point of prophetic error rears its head in interpretations of Daniels idol of future empires.  The reader will recall the idol was constructed of five amalgams of metal.  Its head was of gold, its upper body of silver, its loins of bronze and its legs of iron.  The feet of the idol were a mixture of iron and clay symbolizing a group of nations that held the power of iron but would not commingle with one another.   Interpretations suggest four empires would rule the city of Jerusalem until the end of time when the Kingdom of God would be established.   Unfortunately the interpretations are incorrect.  

Interpretations are incorrect because they focus ONLY on a European version of End Times events.  Eastern events are ignored completely thus leading to error and misunderstanding especially with regard to the anti-Christ - he who is called Mohammad al-Mahdi in Islam.

In the 4th century the Roman Empire was divided into two separate bureaucracies.  The capital of the western empire remained in Rome while the capital of the eastern empire was established as Byzantium - latter renamed Constantinople by Emperor Constantine.   In 465 AD Rome was overrun by the Visigoths.   Fifteen years later the Imperial court of Rome was officially closed for business, but in the east Constantinople continued its Roman traditions and rule.  Historians gauge the duration of the Middle Ages between the fall of Rome and the fall of Constantinople in 1457 at the hands of an army led by Caliph Mehmet II.   Daniel's statue of empires had TWO legs of iron, but western interpretations of scripture conveniently forget that fact.    The eastern empire continued for another thousand years after the fall of Rome.   The Ottoman Empire succeeded Rome in administration of Jerusalem, but the Ottomans aren't mentioned by Daniel.  The British Empire followed the Ottoman Empire in administration of Jerusalem until the partition of Palestine in 1948.   Brits aren't mentioned either. 

The remnant of the Ottoman Empire was defeated by the allies during World War I and the last vestige was swept away in 1927.   Two years later the modern state of Turkey was established under the leadership of Mustafa Ataturk.   Almost immediately calls for a revived Ottoman Empire began.   Those calls became belligerent and militant toward the end of the 20th century and as of this writing occurs throughout the Arab states of Islam on a daily basis.  As of this writing there are virtually NO calls for a revived Roman Empire in Europe.  Europe is in decline even as the nations of Islam are gaining in strength influence and a great desire for a return to a unified caliphate - with a single charismatic leader at the head.   His name is Mohammad al-Mahdi.

Much much more can be said about this figure of prophetic lore, but space limits what can be related here.   What can be said with great authority is that Christians are almost universally ignorant of this potent figure of Islamic eschatology even as they struggle to reinvent their own western version of End Times events.   Ignorance may be bliss for a child, but when one becomes an adult one discovers that ignorance can result in terrible loss of blood and treasure.   Those that deny the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it and history seems to be repeating these days like a broken record.

Muslims warn that al-Mahdi is coming.  Sun Tzu said it is wise to know one's enemy.   Christians today aren't even sure what their brothers and sisters are saying.  They certainly aren't concerned about foreign gods or philosophy even when it exists in stark contrast to their own.  It would be wise to consider the identity of the Beast, especially when the opponents of Christendom have provided his name and published his agenda.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

 

Edited by choir loft
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6 hours ago, choir loft said:

As of this writing there are virtually NO calls for a revived Roman Empire in Europe.

You are woefully misinformed. Many in Europe are looking for the revival of the crown of Charlemagne, who was crowned Holy Roman Emperor by the pope in 800 A.D.

Here is one article on the subject:   https://www.thetrumpet.com/literature/read/12477-a-strong-german-leader-is-imminent/1567

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21 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You are woefully misinformed. Many in Europe are looking for the revival of the crown of Charlemagne, who was crowned Holy Roman Emperor by the pope in 800 A.D.

Here is one article on the subject:   https://www.thetrumpet.com/literature/read/12477-a-strong-german-leader-is-imminent/1567

 

Europe today is considered to be a secular society.   Matters of European concern do not carry the same weight as Islamic calls for the jihadist leader al-Madhi.  A recent statement by the Holy See admitted to a need for a return to religious values throughout Europe.  Even missionary groups from Africa are working toward reviving Christian interest in Europe.   Europe is a divided continent.  There is no unifying call for anything except economic stability.  

I am aware that minor magazine articles and topics on the internet, all on the lunatic fringe, call for many strange things and suggest many trends that simply do not exist.  There are more calls for a return of Nazism in Europe than a revived Roman Empire.  

My dear William, quoting an obscure article from a questionable source is not indicative of a trend nor is it evidence of fact.   I fear you are willing to pick up any story to justify the false notion of European devotion toward any goal other than an economic one.    Do not our news media provide us with images of marching hordes of Islamic hate-filled religious zealots contrasted with Europeans engaged in riots indicative of anarchy?   We see Muslim people marching with a purpose.  Do you not see Europeans in a state of confused protest?  

One believes that which one chooses to believe irregardless of the truth.  Which is it for you, William?  I fear your notions of European unity have little basis in fact.

Europe today is more embroiled in the unraveling of the EU than in calls for unification under any banner at all.

Meanwhile in the Arab states, the call for a revived caliphate is a daily occurrence and prayer and call for jihad in the name of the Prophet [pbuh].    

My purpose here is to illuminate Christian awareness of the depth of Muslim devotion to this issue - and to contrast it with an almost total lack of unification among the people of Europe.  

In America, the almost total lack of Christian understanding of the full implications of the eschatology of both the church and Islam is indicative of a trend in religious illiteracy throughout Christendom.   Christians prefer comfortable old slogans and buzz words to the truth about things.   I certainly hope you are not one of them.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft... 

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The River of Time has many tributaries.   

Some are small and some are polluted with detritus making them nearly invisible to the studied eye.

The River of Time has small eddies which are clear and relatively calm, but the great body of the River of Time eventually sweeps everyone forward.  None can resist its power or direction.   It overpowers many of us when it charges over rapids of rock and foam.  It kills most of us when it drops over a cataract thousands of feet high.   The sound of its power can be heard miles away.  The sweep of its current is irresistible.  No one controls the river.   Few know where it leads.

Most people float idly downstream - swept along by a power they do not understand into a destiny they cannot admit.   God has provided an escape, but most refuse to seize upon it.   They die floating or struggling against an irresistible current of destruction.  They do not understand that when the River of Time arrives at its destination it will have cleansed itself of its pollution and its unknowing parasites.

Some spend a great deal of time studying the tributaries - believing that knowledge of their particular brook or creek provides an escape from the ocean of eternity they are being swept into by the Great River.   They refuse to believe there is more than one tributary of any river and they refuse to believe that even their favorite tributary can be laden with unseen danger.

The tributary most western theologies and story writers now believe to be true is that of a revived Roman Empire.   That is but one tributary, but there are others as deep and dangerous as their favorite.   All of them sweep forward toward a destiny that is at times too gruesome to behold.

Study of the Eastern Roman Empire and 1600 years of history that have already been written suggest that there is another major tributary to understanding the whole flow of Time.  The chief rock in that particular rapids is a figure called Mohammad al-Madhi by Muslims and who is also called the Beast by Christendom.

Interpretation of one tributary is not wrong, but neither does it preclude the massive flow of energy contributed by the other tributary.  

Watch the east.  Watch Turkey.

Watch the west. Watch Rome.

When the two flows combine into the Great River of Time the current will become very fast and irresistibly destructive.    The River will flow on, but it will not be the same again - ever.

Great danger approaches and only those who appeal to God for mercy will survive the great cataract ahead.   It is time to repent and repent again.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

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On 6/26/2019 at 11:39 AM, choir loft said:

Europe is a divided continent.  There is no unifying call for anything except economic stability.  

Exactly. Just what Hitler called for -- a unified Europe, during the midst of the existential crisis of the Great Depression.

The German-dominated European Union was just the type of structure he had in mind. What that Union will morph into, at the time of the next existential crisis, is the big question.

You can talk all the Islamic-Antichrist smack that you want. The proof will be told by future events. Wait until this prophecy unfolds before you bet your future on the Islamic Antichrist belief (or delusion):

Daniel 11:40 “At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through. 41 “He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon.  ..."

The only significant Islamic country to the north of the Glorious Land, Israel, is Turkey. That is why so many people believe Erdogan will be the Islamic Antichrist. But I seriously doubt he has both the military and the moxie to pull anything like that off. Time will tell. And the King of the South is undoubtedly an Islamic power, so it would be Islam conquering Islam, since all the other peoples named in Daniel 11:40-43 are Islamic: Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya, and Cush/"Ethiopia." They would be tough sledding for Turkey to defeat. And having to defeat Israel to boot.

Much more likely that the King of the North will be a NATO power.

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I think you both have an interesting take on what is happening. I am American but have been in the UK now a couple years.

What I see that is frightening is the move toward totally accepting the Mohammedans (the 'others') and their world-view. There is such a strong PC movement, that while Christian persecution is not reported on, the 'others' are extolled as virtuous and righteous.

All it really needs is a bit of a kick-start and the 'others' will overtake the population they already dominate in numbers.

Additionally, there is a very thinly veiled hatred of Israel. Whilst most only give lip service to Antisemitism, it is a movement under the table, so to speak, that is denounced publicly but carried on with impunity in actual reality.

The media is very 'careful' to report on the 'poor Palestinians', but never reports on the daily aid and medicines that Israel provides them. Distortion and mind bending is the covert task of the media in the EU and no one seems to care. Or knows any better.

It is a ground well cultivated and sown with millions of lives and their blood. It will soon bear fruit that none of the people are faintly aware of. That fruit will be bitter, deadly and will take no prisoners. So much for 'equality'.

 

Edited by Justin Adams
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On 7/2/2019 at 9:55 AM, WilliamL said:

Exactly. Just what Hitler called for -- a unified Europe, during the midst of the existential crisis of the Great Depression.

The German-dominated European Union was just the type of structure he had in mind. What that Union will morph into, at the time of the next existential crisis, is the big question.

You can talk all the Islamic-Antichrist smack that you want. The proof will be told by future events. Wait until this prophecy unfolds before you bet your future on the Islamic Antichrist belief (or delusion):

Daniel 11:40 “At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through. 41 “He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon.  ..."

The only significant Islamic country to the north of the Glorious Land, Israel, is Turkey. That is why so many people believe Erdogan will be the Islamic Antichrist. But I seriously doubt he has both the military and the moxie to pull anything like that off. Time will tell. And the King of the South is undoubtedly an Islamic power, so it would be Islam conquering Islam, since all the other peoples named in Daniel 11:40-43 are Islamic: Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya, and Cush/"Ethiopia." They would be tough sledding for Turkey to defeat. And having to defeat Israel to boot.

Much more likely that the King of the North will be a NATO power.

More likely that the KOTN and the KOTS are Lysimachus and Ptolemy, respectively, and that the beast will rise from the old Seleucid empire, from whence cometh Antiochus IV in the narrative of Dan 11.

There are three kings: KOTN, KOTS, and the willful king.

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On 7/2/2019 at 11:25 AM, Justin Adams said:

I think you both have an interesting take on what is happening. I am American but have been in the UK now a couple years.

What I see that is frightening is the move toward totally accepting the Mohammedans (the 'others') and their world-view. There is such a strong PC movement, that while Christian persecution is not reported on, the 'others' are extolled as virtuous and righteous.

All it really needs is a bit of a kick-start and the 'others' will overtake the population they already dominate in numbers.

Additionally, there is a very thinly veiled hatred of Israel. Whilst most only give lip service to Antisemitism, it is a movement under the table, so to speak, that is denounced publicly but carried on with impunity in actual reality.

The media is very 'careful' to report on the 'poor Palestinians', but never reports on the daily aid and medicines that Israel provides them. Distortion and mind bending is the covert task of the media in the EU and no one seems to care. Or knows any better.

It is a ground well cultivated and sown with millions of lives and their blood. It will soon bear fruit that none of the people are faintly aware of. That fruit will be bitter, deadly and will take no prisoners. So much for 'equality'.

 

Some other not so pleasant thoughts:

Wicca is the fastest growing religion in the world, closely followed by Islam. The current Pope Francis is fervently pushing his ecumenical goal and states all religions worship the same god, called by different names? Wow!

Side note: I'd sure like to take a trip over there with my metal detector and find some really old old coins lost in the ground. 

Edited by Dennis1209
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On 6/25/2019 at 7:24 AM, choir loft said:

Interpretations are incorrect because they focus ONLY on a European version of End Times events.

Hard to understand when all the prophecies are not only Israel centric but focused on the region of Mesopotamia. Then, out of the blue, Europe. 

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