Neighbor Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,524 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted June 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Spock said: God did require death on many actions like murder and adultery Jesus is God, He said let the man among you without sin cast the first stone too. Also the concept of an eye for an eye is not a minimum but instead is a maximum concept of penalty. Those that exceeded limits of God and did punish with meanness and excess where punished themselves by God for their excess and their cruelty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Neighbor said: Jesus is God, He said let the man among you without sin cast the first stone too. Also the concept of an eye for an eye is not a minimum but instead is a maximum concept of penalty. Those that exceeded limits of God and did punish with meanness and excess where punished themselves by God for their excess and their cruelty. Okay Neighbor, I really would like a clear yes or no answer to this question... Do you believe those who commit MURDER and found GUILTY in Israel during the Millennial Kingdom rule of Jesus will be sentenced to death with punishment administered pretty quickly? Yes or no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,524 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted June 27, 2019 The man of valor Gideon, a very weak man convinced by God to be of valor and who gained fame for the glory that is to be God's alone, also fell as he got into thinking himself cunning. In his ruthlessness he forgot God. See chapter eight of 1 kings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Neighbor said: The man of valor Gideon, a very weak man convinced by God to be of valor and who gained fame for the glory that is to be God's alone, also fell as he got into thinking himself cunning. In his ruthlessness he forgot God. See chapter eight of 1 kings I knew you couldn’t do it......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,524 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,025 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted June 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Spock said: Okay Neighbor, I really would like a clear yes or no answer to this question... Do you believe those who commit MURDER and found GUILTY in Israel during the Millennial Kingdom rule of Jesus will be sentenced to death with punishment administered pretty quickly? Yes or no Yes or no? Do I get to put God in a box of my own choosing? What I do think is: One need submit to the authority at the time, as all authority is granted by God and each individual is to submit to authority over them. As to mercy, mercy triumphs over justice; as to the millennial kingdom, individuals cannot even agree on it'd existence and timing, some claim we are in the kingdom today. "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you rwill receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 Hey firestormx, I’m going through the OT to find passages applicable to your question, so I will post if I find any. Here is the first.... The law (Torah) will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. (Isaiah 2:2-4) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Neighbor said: The premise is simply incorrect. The Law of the prophets is not done away but instead is fulfilled in Jesus, and even stepped up a notch by the declaration of Jesus who is God. You're not answering my question. What civil and criminal law should Israel be using? because it was the OT law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 46 minutes ago, Neighbor said: Jesus is God, He said let the man among you without sin cast the first stone too. Also the concept of an eye for an eye is not a minimum but instead is a maximum concept of penalty. Those that exceeded limits of God and did punish with meanness and excess where punished themselves by God for their excess and their cruelty. but that was because they were perverting justice for their own ends. They weren't trying to follow what God said or they would have brought the man as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Spock said: Okay here is my new thinking after giving it some more thought, but you should know, this is all new to me. Yes, in the OT.....you were to be killed for murder (leave out adultery for this discussion). (consequence of actions) So, does the emergence of the New Covenant in Israel ( the nations might be different) change the administering of consequences for sin? Spock When most christians think of the OT, IMO, they are only thinking of it in terms of religious importance. The spiritual concerns. But for Israel, God said it was to be their civil and criminal law as well. It was the guide lines for how the entire nation was to be run so there would not be anarchy. Now in Jesus Christ alone we have the blood for remission of sin. So all the stuff about sin offerings in the OT is fulfilled in Jesus. Likewise, we are the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. What Jesus makes clean is completely clean. So all the things about being clean and holy like not eating pork or wearing mixed fabric in the OT is fulfilled in Jesus. We can't establish our own righteousness it has to come from Jesus alone. Now we come to the moral parts of the OT law. What did Jesus say about them? Murder? He said if you hate your brother without cause you are guilty of murder in your heart. Adultery? Married and you Look at someone in lust then you have committed adultery already in your heart. Not only do they still apply but he put bluntly the standards of God in regards to moral behavior. So what do we have then. Remember, the OT was the religious, civil and criminal law of the nation. Well, a lot of the Religious are wrapped up in Jesus. But what about the civil and criminal? Do they still apply? Doesn't Jesus say Love is the fulfilling of the law? Should we just stand by and let people Rape and Murder and do nothing but love them? Is that what Jesus really meant? Did Jesus abolish the entire Criminal and Civil law of Israel with all it's punishment and offer up nothing to replace it? Just some thoughts I have... Firestormx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, firestormx said: When most christians think of the OT, IMO, they are only thinking of it in terms of religious importance. The spiritual concerns. But for Israel, God said it was to be their civil and criminal law as well. It was the guide lines for how the entire nation was to be run so there would not be anarchy. Now in Jesus Christ alone we have the blood for remission of sin. So all the stuff about sin offerings in the OT is fulfilled in Jesus. Likewise, we are the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. What Jesus makes clean is completely clean. So all the things about being clean and holy like not eating pork or wearing mixed fabric in the OT is fulfilled in Jesus. We can't establish our own righteousness it has to come from Jesus alone. Now we come to the moral parts of the OT law. What did Jesus say about them? Murder? He said if you hate your brother without cause you are guilty of murder in your heart. Adultery? Married and you Look at someone in lust then you have committed adultery already in your heart. Not only do they still apply but he put bluntly the standards of God in regards to moral behavior. So what do we have then. Remember, the OT was the religious, civil and criminal law of the nation. Well, a lot of the Religious are wrapped up in Jesus. But what about the civil and criminal? Do they still apply? Doesn't Jesus say Love is the fulfilling of the law? Should we just stand by and let people Rape and Murder and do nothing but love them? Is that what Jesus really meant? Did Jesus abolish the entire Criminal and Civil law of Israel with all it's punishment and offer up nothing to replace it? Just some thoughts I have... Firestormx Honestly, of all the words of wisdom given to you so far on this thread, I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilma’s short and sweet post isn’t the BEST WORD that answers your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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