firestormx Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 32 minutes ago, other one said: I didn't say that they would not receive consequences, just not death. no justice system in the world today is free of corruption that I am aware of... and capitol punishment is pretty final. I have family that was falsely convicted of Rape and got 17 years for it.... could not get a parole unless he admitted he was guilty so he spent the entire 17 years in prison.... We had tried for ten of those years to get the clothes the lady was wearing to do DNA testing on it and it was misplaced until three weeks after his time was over. Sure enough the DNA test showed he was not guilty but the system here would still not take him off the sexual predator list and felon which hounded him till his death. Turns out that the DA's office had put a large number of people in jail from corrupt forensic findings. So from my point of view that punishment is not safe to use till Jesus comes back and knows what really happened... First I'm sorry for what happened. I'm a convicted felon ( but guilty ) I've seen first hand what your talking about, including a back door deal with my own eyes to lock someone up for 22-26 years who should have only done a couple months to a year or so at most. Next, if you would like to confine this convo to the time Israel accepts Jesus as the messiah and forward that is fine with me. IMO it's all the same conversation, now, then, MK, all same to me but I don't want to be a burden or stumbling block to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Spock said: I’m beginning to see the logic in this thinking too, sister. Wilma and you make a lot of sense. Up until now I hadn’t thought about what punishment would be administered in the MK. I guess I just didn’t want to think an eye for an eye (you kill, you be killed) would still reign. Even typing this makes me cringe a bit. Just to be clear here. Are you saying you believe adultery also will be dealt with my killing the guilty party? Thanks The millinial kinhdom. Jesus is on the throne. Holy Spirit is fully present since we turn all our weapons in to plows:) I believe we will peacefully live by the fruit of the Spirit and the Law of the Spirit until our tempter is released then some men turn back to operating the works of the flesh so that last rebellious seed is forever brought to extinction. Then Death is thrown in the pit with them. But, I'm always learning and it's not like I haven t considered things absolutley obvious to me. End up not exactly how I understood them as I keep learning. Remember our fathers the Apostals and Paul that love us and were also imprisoned, torchered and killed for us to recieve the millinal kingdome. Sit IN those seats of the 12 judges in the MK and Jesus is our King and High Priest. So consider it but always stay open to the Lord's guidance, teaching and correction or you end up on the wrong side of the great apostasy. Edited June 27, 2019 by Reinitin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, firestormx said: First I'm sorry for what happened. I'm a convicted felon ( but guilty ) I've seen first hand what your talking about, including a back door deal with my own eyes to lock someone up for 22-26 years who should have only done a couple months to a year or so at most. Next, if you would like to confine this convo to the time Israel accepts Jesus as the messiah and forward that is fine with me. IMO it's all the same conversation, now, then, MK, all same to me but I don't want to be a burden or stumbling block to you. Ok.. so Paul said (from memory not a direct quote so find it and read it) you were all once adulterers, thieves, murders, slandered. But in Christ you are new creations and no longer those things. We all face death of our flesh because of our sins. We do not get out of that judgment of sin of the flesh. But that dead man walking we are and while waiting for the grave we are already counted as dead because we except our judgement and the judgment of sin as being done at the cross. We will be put to death for our sin like Paul, Peter John Matthew, Mark ect, . But right now we who are alive but are counted already dead and barried with Christ so we can have a life in Christ which comes from that new creation Christ has put in us by heavenly seed while waiting for that death now with hope not fear. So it's not that we won't be judged and put to death it's that we allowed God to pass that judgment on us at the cross and we come into agreement with him his judgment its that we agree his judgment by the law is just and right and holy. And we are judged with Jesus pray for us, forgive them they know not what they do. When Jesus returns for the millions kingdom, we are changed in the twinkle of an eye. So you and me and all of us are gonna die for sin or be changed. I am convinced till Christ or the word shows me different our new creation is what will dwell with Christ in the millennial kingdom and may be subjected to one more purge to completely destroy all the work of sin seeded in the flesh and Satan. Edited June 27, 2019 by Reinitin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Reinitin said: Ok.. so Paul said (from memory not a direct quote so find it and read it) you were all once adulterers, thieves, murders, slandered. But in Christ you are new creations and no longer those things. We all face death of our flesh because of our sins. We do not get out of that judgment of sin of the flesh. But that dead man walking we are and waiting for the grave He will be put in for our sin. Can have a life in Christ with that new creation Christ has put in us by heavenly seed. When Jesus returns for the millions kingdom, we are changed in the twinkle of an eye. So you and me and all of us are gonna die for sin or be changed. I am convinced till Christ or the word shows me different our new creation is what will dwell with Christ in the millennial kingdom and may be subjected to one more purge to completely destroy all the work of sin seeded in the flesh and Satan. I agree with a lot of all of your posts which is why I haven't responded up until now. But to be clear, What you are saying is that the biblical punishment for murder, for example, which is death, still stands and should still apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,064 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,814 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Spock said: Isn’t that what we are talking about? Justice in the Millennial Kingdom in Israel after our Lords second coming! not what I was/am talking about... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 hours ago, firestormx said: I agree with a lot of all of your posts which is why I haven't responded up until now. But to be clear, What you are saying is that the biblical punishment for murder, for example, which is death, still stands and should still apply. Whether on earth, by man's government , or not is one thing. The penalty for sin (for greed, for adultery, for sexual perversion, for murder, for idolatry, etc etc etc ) is still death ---- all these and more are listed openly in the Apocalypse as those who ARE NOT IN HEAVEN! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 hours ago, firestormx said: I agree with a lot of all of your posts which is why I haven't responded up until now. But to be clear, What you are saying is that the biblical punishment for murder, for example, which is death, still stands and should still apply. If you read something I posted. Let it sit for a bit. If I post from my phone out at the barn or in the sun. It is usually a God awful mess and doesn't say what I mean because i cant see it to read it. I fix them when I get back in the house. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, firestormx said: I agree with a lot of all of your posts which is why I haven't responded up until now. But to be clear, What you are saying is that the biblical punishment for murder, for example, which is death, still stands and should still apply. Yes. One transgression (sin) by Adam subjected every human being to death for his one (not as big as some of ours) sin. (except Elijah and Enoch, another story). Not one person has got out of it. Because it has been appointed unto every man to die because our transgresion against Gods laws. Even Jesus died because of Adams sin. But because Jesus had no sin, the grave had to give him back to the living. So in reality we all are being put to death eventually/ all day long for our sin/sins. (Our personal sins or being conceived in sin or having sin already in our heart in the womb, or Adams). Point is nobody is sinless except Christ. He was not concieved by the seed of man But by heavenly seed and then born in to this world in the flesh and did not sin. He kept all the laws of God. So you will not get out of a death penalty of your flesh for murder because eventually you will die and then face God. So fast forward. We know there is a physical birth and then a Spiritual birth through Christ from heavenly seed. Correct? If your born physically and only have that birth you face the judgment and the physical death for sins and sin then you stand in the eternal judgment of God and give account for every thing you said and did in your flesh, this is where God will personally pass eternal judgment for that murder. (I won't go into that here but that judgment is by the law of God and eternal and no man will have an excuse because all creation testifies to man and will testify against man that rejected Christ and the second birth). SOOOOOO any hoooo What Jesus did was make a second birth available to us born by his heavenly seed. A spiritual pregnancy birth (Not sure) but it is accomplished by the Holy Spirit being sealed in us. Jesus is the father of our spiritual life, His seed he puts in us is the Holy Spirit. If We have had both births accomplished for us by Cnrist. We receive joyfully Gods rightouess judgement and our phyiscal death, tortue, suffering, being slandered, judged by man, all that good stuff. (at some point death) as the result (sentence, penalty, judgment) of our sin. So if through Christ you recieve the second birth and life by the Spirit. On the ledger in heaven you are marked as dead and barried with Christ when you are successfully born again by the Spirit ( I personally think their are false positives and premature abortion of the second birth but that's my person opinion not a doctrin I'm trying to force or teach) Fast forward.... So the law has no contract with (power over, authority over) the dead except that they face the judgment of God. The heavenly seed growing in us chokes out freshly desires, so it's causing the death of our sinful flesh while we are still living and counted in heaven as already dead. So either way the flesh is still being put to death and we are living a spiritual life unto Christ. But, if you are born again and alive by the Spirit of Christ in you. That same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead will raise you up at the return of Christ. Not raise you up to face the Judgment of God, BUt raise you up to live in Gods Kingdim. Because you have already been judged by God at the cross, your punishment is death (flesh), The Blood offered and excepted for the final judgment. You are reserected as a co heir in Christ as a son brought to life by Christ heavenly eternal seed of the Holy Spirit that raised Christ from the dead resurrects you not for judgment but for life in the kingdom of Heaven / (Kimgdom of God / millennial reign). Any way, I still have some hokes I need to fill in.. But that's what I see clearly now. Edited June 27, 2019 by Reinitin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 27, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, simplejeff said: Whether on earth, by man's government , or not is one thing. The penalty for sin (for greed, for adultery, for sexual perversion, for murder, for idolatry, etc etc etc ) is still death ---- all these and more are listed openly in the Apocalypse as those who ARE NOT IN HEAVEN! True, but I don’t think this is what firestormx is asking us. I think we all understand that any and all sin excludes everyone from heaven unless covered by the blood of Jesus. Thus, even fornicators, adulterers, and even murderers can make it to heaven if they subsequently allow for the blood of Christ to cleanse them and wash away their sin (he took the punishment at Calvary for us). Firestormx is asking, what happens when a Jew in Israel during Christ’s 1000 year Millennial Kingdom (MK) is guilty of rape, adultery, or murder. What happens to him? Wilma said the Law still applies and Christ will rule with a rod of iron which I take it means the death penalty as written under the mosaic law will still apply. I understand what Wilma says and it seems to make sense but I still am unsure on how to answer this. I can feel better about killing the man if he took another’s life, but for some reason, I don’t feel as strongly if he was caught committing sexual sin. I guess it is easier for me to see the application of an eye for an eye be applied. And of course the whole issue of prisons in the millennial Kingdom....I don’t think they will exist....so if you don’t kill the guilty one, what do you do with him? There always are consequences today for ones bad decisions and actions even when your sins are washed away by the blood of Christ. I imagine that will still apply in the MK. Anyhow, I’m still uncertain and still studying and still reading everyone’s thoughts as well here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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