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firestormx

What Law would Israel live under if it believed in the NT

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Just now, other one said:

I don't think Jesus required the death penalty in the instances that were brought to him...

Ok, Let me make sure I understand you. God says the punishment for Adultery is death in the OT but now in NT times your spouse can commit unrepentant adultery endless and there should be no civil penalty for it...correct?

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6 minutes ago, firestormx said:

Ok, Let me make sure I understand you. God says the punishment for Adultery is death in the OT but now in NT times your spouse can commit unrepentant adultery endless and there should be no civil penalty for it...correct?

why do you push things to the ultimate limits on things....                      but in the case you talk about if she did that I would expect a divorce and ability to remarry and when she died she'd go to hell where she'd belong...    unless she repented and that would be between her  and the Lord.    But after 49 years of marriage I love her to the point I might just forgive her myself.   Jesus said I should love her as he loved the Church....      Have we always been faithful to him???

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Would I kill anyone over adultery.....     no I would not.   Actually I do not like capitol punishment at all largely because our justice system is corrupt and makes way too many mistakes.

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2 minutes ago, other one said:

why do you push things to the ultimate limits on things....           

Because most people do when questioned. This all stems from a divorce and remarriage conversation. but the broader point is the same and got me wondering about law and punishment. The OT wasn't just spiritual guide lines to Israel, it was also there civil law. So if the law and it's punishments have been done away with, then what would be the civil law now?

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2 minutes ago, other one said:

Would I kill anyone over adultery.....     no I would not.   Actually I do not like capitol punishment at all largely because our justice system is corrupt and makes way too many mistakes.

But it was God who said Adultery was worthy of death

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1 minute ago, firestormx said:

But it was God who said Adultery was worthy of death

and God will kill them when the time comes....   Jesus changed life when he came and died for our sins....    He wants mercy and not sacrifice these days.

We do have to have laws to be able to live with each other these days because not all of us are born again Christians....   but I don't see us going back to the OT laws for every day living.   If that's what you are looking for go to an Islamic country and pay the tax and they should let you live under laws that are pretty much right out of the OT.

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Just now, other one said:

and God will kill them when the time comes....   Jesus changed life when he came and died for our sins....    He wants mercy and not sacrifice these days.

We do have to have laws to be able to live with each other these days because not all of us are born again Christians....   but I don't see us going back to the OT laws for every day living.   If that's what you are looking for go to an Islamic country and pay the tax and they should let you live under laws that are pretty much right out of the OT.

God said that the death penalty was for here and now for somethings as well. However, My original question still stands. If the punishments that GOD set are no longer good enough, then what civil law and penalties would or should Israel be under?

 

PS. if I'm frustrating you, then I'm sorry , just trying to figure some things out in my head.

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8 hours ago, firestormx said:

God said that the death penalty was for here and now for somethings as well. However, My original question still stands. If the punishments that GOD set are no longer good enough, then what civil law and penalties would or should Israel be under?

 

PS. if I'm frustrating you, then I'm sorry , just trying to figure some things out in my head.

where in the NT does God say the death penalty is for the here and now? If it's there I am not aware of it.

What Jesus said was to live under whatever civil law was in effect.  I personally don't see where the NT covers the subject at all.    If they are going to go back to the original laws, I see a conflict between sacrifice and mercy that exists between the two covenants.     When you use capitol punishment, you are taking away the possibility of a person repenting and just send them to hell.  I'm not comfortable with that.    But I am surely not ok with accepting the gay lifestyle as normal....    neither adultery fornication or any perverted sex.....    but killing people over it is just too far for me..

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15 hours ago, firestormx said:

If the old testament law and it's punishment have been done away with in Jesus Christ, then What would Israel live under? They lived under the OT law, so if it's been done away with, then for example there is no longer a death penalty for adultery. So you could in the land of Israel commit adultery without any punishment until the day you stand before God. In fact, you can do anything because there is no punishment for anything. Murder or rape it just doesn't matter because there is no punishment.

 

How does the grace and Love of the new punishment mix with the punishment and the death penalty for breaking the law? If the Nation of Israel believed Jesus does this mean no punishment for any broken commandments of God until you stand before him on Judgement day?

The old testament is more that  the Law of Moses given by God. The rabbinic law is less than the OT too.

 The idea of a divide is  a paralyzing way  of looking at the Bible. It is one continuous reveal of Jesus.

The first Christians were  for the most part Jews. Israelis, living  under both the religious law of the Jews while under the command and civil law of the Roman empire outpost commander.

Jesus  never came to banish the law of Moses. He fulfilled it. That is how grace and mercy came to satisfy the requirement of Moses Law.  Jesus who is God, God the Son, came to do the will of His Father. He sacrificed on the cross with his own blood, His blood was shed to cover the sins of all of humanity that have been given Him by His Father. He loses not a one. He died. That which was perfect, and is God, became fully man as well as fully God, died - arose - and ascended, conquering death  the final enemy.

Death's demand was satisfied by  that which could satisfy it's demand. The only perfect sacrifice, Jesus,  was made. No other is demanded for none other may satisfy the need to cover sin, so that God the father may behold set sight on a man,as god cannot abide the sight of sin.

 In the blood of Christ is the sin washed clean so that the sinner is seen as clean washed white as snow and is found acceptable  in the sight of God.

Jesus did not remove the law, He upped the ante, for he declared that  even the thought of doing sin is sin, same as the act itself. Under that withering judgement no man can stand. But Jesus who is God also reconciled the dilemma that no man can. He died in place of all that  should die so that many may be saved.

 

 

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1 hour ago, other one said:

where in the NT does God say the death penalty is for the here and now? If it's there I am not aware of it.

What Jesus said was to live under whatever civil law was in effect.  I personally don't see where the NT covers the subject at all.    If they are going to go back to the original laws, I see a conflict between sacrifice and mercy that exists between the two covenants.     When you use capitol punishment, you are taking away the possibility of a person repenting and just send them to hell.  I'm not comfortable with that.    But I am surely not ok with accepting the gay lifestyle as normal....    neither adultery fornication or any perverted sex.....    but killing people over it is just too far for me..

By here and now I just meant that the OT punishments were to be carried out here and now on earth and not judgement day.

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