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Battle of NAMES -- Christ versus Antichrist


Jonathan Dane

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37 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I identify todays king of the north as Donald Trump.Ive identlified the US presidents as the king of the north since the second US/Iraq war.

Interesting?

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17 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

1.) I have the wrong guy 2.) you have the wrong schematic 3.) we're both wrong.

I've said it before. I'll say it again. What I have that you don't is a living, breathing candidate that checks off a list a mile long.

Number 1 is true.  You absolutely without any doubt not only have the wrong guy,   but the wrong list!   Epic fail I think they call it,  starting with a false premise.   Just to sell books....... ?    tch tch ......  and thus leading more people off on a false trail..... That's a no-no.

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4 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Number 1 is true.  You absolutely without any doubt not only have the wrong guy,   but the wrong list!   Epic fail I think they call it,  starting with a false premise.   Just to sell books....... ?    tch tch ......  and thus leading more people off on a false trail..... That's a no-no.

Bald assertions and ad hominem -- the go to when you've run out of substance. God bless.

Edited by Jonathan Dane
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11 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

To simplify and identify, exactly who (what country today) are we identifying as "King of the North"? 

Scholars and expositors make a good biblical case it is Russia; the same holds true with Turkey. I've had the life long view the King of the North is today's Russia, based on the names and genealogical migration patterns of the descendants of Shem, Ham, Japheth and the Table of Nations. However; I can't discount Turkey either, based on what I have studied.  

Y'alls thoughts?

I do not believe that the Ezekiel's King of the North is the same as Daniel's. Ezekiel's (38/39) appears to be Russia with a coalition of Muslim nations. In fact, I believe this supernatural defeat by God Himself may just completely cripple Islam and cause many Muslims to trust in the true God and not Allah. This battle appears to take place either before or soon after the start of the tribulation. I believe Daniel's end-time King of the North (he mentions historic ones as well) to be none other than the Antichrist. I know Shilohsfoal will disagree. But clearly, they are one and the same, as evidenced by Daniel's description of the abomination that causes desolation in chapter 11. This event can only be associated to the AC and none other.

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13 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Now show me where the king of the north  invades Israel by force.

"Invade" sort of implies force, no?

It is clear that the King of the North and the AC are one and the same simply by the language that is used for both, especially the abomination of desolation. 

It is true that the Antichrist will flatter some of the people of the covenant. But I do not see where it says, the government. The context of the passage is the temple, not government. The "people of the covenant" are priests that betray their oaths to the true God to support the AC. These may be those who help the AC gain access to the temple to perform his blasphemy. This is the moment that Christ warns those in Jerusalem to flee. Why? Because of the persecution of the Antichrist that is to follow. As I said before, yes, this is a reversal. Previously, the AC was the guarantor of peace. Then he becomes their destroyer. The Jews will flee at that time (probably to Petra) and be super-naturally protected there by God.

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12 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

1.) no one can know whom it (the AC) is until.....

2.) The Antichrist appears to have a political and military background, he's a great military strategist. One does not become such by reading Sun Tzu, but by exposure, training and experience. Trump doesn't fit this either. 

3.) The Antichrist will initially rise in power through flatteries and will be a master and eloquent in speech and rhetoric. Trump is definitely not eloquent in speech and rhetoric, he's definitely not a uniter; someone the world would accept as their Savior coming in his own name. He's probably the most hated and despised US President ever.

No, the only connection I see between Trump and the 'Son of Perdition'; is possibly the proposed peace plan of Trump down the road, "maybe".

I took the liberty to number your quotes.
Regarding #1 -- proof?
Regarding #2 -- Actually, the Bible indicates just the opposite. He's called a "Little Horn" which signifies a lack of military and political background. Also, Daniel 11 paints a picture of an Antichrist that is rather reactionary and impulsive, not a seasoned general. (kinda like "T"- how about that?). 
Regarding #3, I agree with the flatteries part but nowhere does it say that the AC is a master of speech or eloquent. Nowhere. Neither does it say he is a "uniter." In fact, that battle of Armageddon starts with the armies of the world coming against him. Will the AC come as a kind of savior under his own name? -- absolutely. How many times do we hear "T" say, "I alone can fix this!"

As I said folks, keep 'em coming. The more you object, the stronger may case appears.

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7 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

"Invade" sort of implies force, no?

It is clear that the King of the North and the AC are one and the same simply by the language that is used for both, especially the abomination of desolation. 

It is true that the Antichrist will flatter some of the people of the covenant. But I do not see where it says, the government. The context of the passage is the temple, not government. The "people of the covenant" are priests that betray their oaths to the true God to support the AC. These may be those who help the AC gain access to the temple to perform his blasphemy. This is the moment that Christ warns those in Jerusalem to flee. Why? Because of the persecution of the Antichrist that is to follow. As I said before, yes, this is a reversal. Previously, the AC was the guarantor of peace. Then he becomes their destroyer. The Jews will flee at that time (probably to Petra) and be super-naturally protected there by God.

Its the Israeli goverment who controlls Israel.Not a priest.Not a temple.Te king of the north must go through Netayahubefore being allowed in Israel.Not a priest.

Dont you know anything about Israel?

Trump will have to make a deal,with his good ally Netayahu before Trump can send the military in to occupy Jerusalem.You know Netanyahu dont you?Thats the person Trump is always flattering. 

He has to strike a deal with the Israeli goverment first.Those who practice Israeli law.

Oh and ps.Jesus does not instruct his disciples to flee from persecution.He tells his disciples to preach the gospel.They are instructed to go from one Israeli city to another preaching the gospel till he comes.They already know they will be persecuted.

Edited by Shilohsfoal
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9 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

I do not believe that the Ezekiel's King of the North is the same as Daniel's. Ezekiel's (38/39) appears to be Russia with a coalition of Muslim nations. In fact, I believe this supernatural defeat by God Himself may just completely cripple Islam and cause many Muslims to trust in the true God and not Allah. This battle appears to take place either before or soon after the start of the tribulation. I believe Daniel's end-time King of the North (he mentions historic ones as well) to be none other than the Antichrist. I know Shilohsfoal will disagree. But clearly, they are one and the same, as evidenced by Daniel's description of the abomination that causes desolation in chapter 11. This event can only be associated to the AC and none other.

My hermeneutic view is close to yours with some minor exceptions or things I have some reservations with. With the buildup in Syria and the precise major players listed in Ezekiel occupying, staging and preparing a permanent presence. There can be little doubt the Gog - Magog invasion is at hand. It will be interesting to see what the spark or catalyst is that triggers that invasion, and if the Harpazo will occur before or after this invasion. I have a kink in my neck from constantly looking up :)

It appears to me that the IDF most likely will be the force that levels Damascus to a ruinous heap overnight by use of a nuclear weapon(s)? They are already flying dozens of sorties striking very near Damascus we don't hear about from major media outlets. Damascus is the H.Q. of there operations and probably the location of their chemical and biological weapons. I suspect Israeli intelligence will discover a major impending attack or something that threatens their very own existence and survival and perform a preemptive nuclear strike, or retaliation for something? 

What's not clear is Israel's bordering hostile nations they have fought three wars with since 1948. The one's who have vowed to drive Israel into the sea, where are they in all of this; they and their proxy terrorist groups are not even mentioned in the Gog-Magog invasion? Of course I don't know the answer but speculate: The Psalm 83: war is both historic and a coming prophetic war that neutralized them, or...

There is currently unprecedented and historical support of Trump's peace plan from a couple of major Arab / Muslim countries; whom will cut off funding and support for the proxy terrorist groups if they don't get on board with the peace plan and support it. That's a recent development that has possibilities I suppose? Because it makes no sense that Israel's surrounding and bordering life long enemies would not take the once in a life time opportunity to join in on their destruction. What's your thoughts??

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9 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

I took the liberty to number your quotes.
Regarding #1 -- proof?
Regarding #2 -- Actually, the Bible indicates just the opposite. He's called a "Little Horn" which signifies a lack of military and political background. Also, Daniel 11 paints a picture of an Antichrist that is rather reactionary and impulsive, not a seasoned general. (kinda like "T"- how about that?). 
Regarding #3, I agree with the flatteries part but nowhere does it say that the AC is a master of speech or eloquent. Nowhere. Neither does it say he is a "uniter." In fact, that battle of Armageddon starts with the armies of the world coming against him. Will the AC come as a kind of savior under his own name? -- absolutely. How many times do we hear "T" say, "I alone can fix this!"

As I said folks, keep 'em coming. The more you object, the stronger may case appears.

Okay, so, before I address my response in support of my views; I'm getting the impression you suspect Trump is the Antichrist; am I correct in my assumption? 

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2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

My hermeneutic view is close to yours with some minor exceptions or things I have some reservations with. With the buildup in Syria and the precise major players listed in Ezekiel occupying, staging and preparing a permanent presence. There can be little doubt the Gog - Magog invasion is at hand. It will be interesting to see what the spark or catalyst is that triggers that invasion, and if the Harpazo will occur before or after this invasion. I have a kink in my neck from constantly looking up :)

It appears to me that the IDF most likely will be the force that levels Damascus to a ruinous heap overnight by use of a nuclear weapon(s)? They are already flying dozens of sorties striking very near Damascus we don't hear about from major media outlets. Damascus is the H.Q. of there operations and probably the location of their chemical and biological weapons. I suspect Israeli intelligence will discover a major impending attack or something that threatens their very own existence and survival and perform a preemptive nuclear strike, or retaliation for something? 

What's not clear is Israel's bordering hostile nations they have fought three wars with since 1948. The one's who have vowed to drive Israel into the sea, where are they in all of this; they and their proxy terrorist groups are not even mentioned in the Gog-Magog invasion? Of course I don't know the answer but speculate: The Psalm 83: war is both historic and a coming prophetic war that neutralized them, or...

There is currently unprecedented and historical support of Trump's peace plan from a couple of major Arab / Muslim countries; whom will cut off funding and support for the proxy terrorist groups if they don't get on board with the peace plan and support it. That's a recent development that has possibilities I suppose? Because it makes no sense that Israel's surrounding and bordering life long enemies would not take the once in a life time opportunity to join in on their destruction. What's your thoughts??

What are my thoughts. The first one that comes to mind is that we will just have to wait and see.

There are a lot of smart people on here who are keeping a close eye on the geopolitical situation in the Middle East. You and others bring up some interesting observations. As far as events that will happen during the tribulation, my focus is much more immediate. Again, we'll have to wait and see. 

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