Omegaman 3.0 Posted July 17, 2019 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 hours ago, ReneeIW said: When someone tells me they are a Christian and they are living out what they believe, I never care what denomination they belong to. I agree, but with reservations. When a person such as a Mormon or a Jehovah's witness tells me they are a Christian, and live out what they believe, I am not as enthusiastic. Depends on not just living it out, but on what they believe. There are a lot of people who have sincere beliefs and live exemplary lives by my standards, but I still grieve for their spiritual trajectory. Then I would rather see them in a "denomination". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted July 17, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2019 17 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: I agree, but with reservations. When a person such as a Mormon or a Jehovah's witness tells me they are a Christian, and live out what they believe, I am not as enthusiastic. Depends on not just living it out, but on what they believe. There are a lot of people who have sincere beliefs and live exemplary lives by my standards, but I still grieve for their spiritual trajectory. Then I would rather see them in a "denomination". YeahI never considered those two Christian denominations, but rather cults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 19, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,182 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,483 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 19, 2019 On 7/8/2019 at 6:35 AM, Waiting2BwithHim said: Since the Holy Bible is truth and Acts 11:26 is when we were first called Christians why is it then there are different denominations? Why is it that everyone that is Christian does not believe the same way? What started different denominations in the first place? Hi Waiting2BwithHim, Very good question. Remember what the Apostle Paul said - `For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27) Paul had shared with the believers `the whole counsel of God,` all the truth. Then Paul went on to say - `Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 28 - 30) Thus we can see that divisions arose after Paul died. Over the centuries this continued with much error being spread. However the Lord Himself said - `...when He the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth...` (John 16: 13) So along side error we see that the Holy Spirit is guiding those who will receive the truth. Over the centuries as people received some aspect of truth they gathered together and eventually formed a denomination. Then more truth was revealed and people gathered together around that and then formed another denomination. Those who belonged to a former denomination, often could not receive some more clarification of truth, thus the newer group had to form their own gatherings and denomination. This has gone on for centuries. Today many believers are turning away from man`s denominations and seeking to gather in 2`s & 3`s or more. Christ is the Head of His Body and is desiring His people to look to Him and not to man. Godly people can help us, mentor, teach but they are not to usurp the role of the Holy Spirit who is making us like Christ. Marilyn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted July 20, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2019 If we read the books that the apostles read, then we would understand far more. The allusion to spiritual disobedience and the fallen principalities and powers are very obvious in much of the teachings in early letters and epistles, but we miss it because we are taught wrong. If we actually read the books they did, such as Enoch and other books available we would also have a much better understanding. Saul said 'all scripture' is beneficial, but our religious leader made it VERBOTEN to read those other works so we have a shallow view of the world and an even shallower view of God and His chosen spokes-persons. [Just check out the vitriol on this site aimed at those that attempt to suggest reading of these works!] Even the early church fathers' writings and quotes and suggestions show us that they read much to do with Mesopotamian thought and the average Israeli around at the time of Christ had a much clearer picture of what was really going on. It is Cosmic stuff and bespeaks of God's overall plan for salvation of the world and His battle with the opposing forces. Check out the Qumran commentaries and writings they preserved. They had a sound world-view. So the devil-led churches of folk that were mostly ignorant and the various edicts of 'church bodies' made sure that the people would be largely kept in ignorance so that they would not and could not oppose ecumenical evil. Thus denied much truth they bicker and create sects. Problem is, few of them actually know what is going on. Even Yeshua quoted much from Tanach and other writings, especially Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32. The Jewish person of His day understood very well what He was saying. they were far better educated than we are today. They read; they talked; they had actual conversations!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted July 20, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 17 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,447 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,363 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Online Share Posted July 20, 2019 On 7/7/2019 at 4:05 PM, Waiting2BwithHim said: Since the Holy Bible is truth and Acts 11:26 is when we were first called Christians why is it then there are different denominations? Why is it that everyone that is Christian does not believe the same way? What started different denominations in the first place? Wow... To explain it all we would have to go all the way back to Constantine in the fourth century and the establishment of the official church / state religion. Through the dark ages and inquisitions to the protesters - reformation and Martin Luther. And continue on through the invention of the printing press and all the 19th century changes that occurred; to include the many Bible translations and versions that suddenly popped up, and the big lie of Darwin's evolution theory to name a couple. Not to mention Satan's active role in attacking believers, dividing the unity of the church and especially attacking the Word of God. But basically it boils down to differences in: Soterlology (OSAS), core belief's, eschatology, church doctrine and hermeneutics. Religion is mans attempt to worship God under their own terms I do believe. Christianity is not a 'religion', it's a faith and belief in the One true living God in three Persons. That the Lord Jesus Christ is whom He says he is; and we have a personal relationship with Him. Having trust and faith in what He alone has done and the promises He made to those that have accepted and believed Him. There are scores of books out there on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCowboy Posted July 20, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 213 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 303 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) Yes, denominations were created by man, and often over petty stuff; however, I believe that different doctrines can serve a positive purpose. In this I mean bringin' folks to Lord n the church. I myself had left one denomination, the congregation made me fell alienated cuz I was different. I since have been enjoyin' another denomination where I am wholly accepted n has brought me closer to Christ in learnin', prayer n fellowship. So positive points do exist form the variety of denominations, they're not all bad. Just my two bits, JJ Edited July 22, 2019 by BorderCowboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted July 20, 2019 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted July 20, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 4:42 PM, ReneeIW said: YeahI never considered those two Christian denominations, but rather cults. That is typical with Christians, especially Evangelicals. However, we have this way of making up definitions to suit ourselves. However using the following: Dictionary Search for a word cult /kəlt/ Learn to pronounce noun a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. "the cult of St. Olaf" great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book) a system of religious beliefs and ritual also : its body of adherents Christianity fits those definitions of a cult, just fine. Denominations, on the other hands, are: : NAME, DESIGNATION especially : a general name for a category listed under the general denomination of gifts : a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, fit those definitions of denominations. Sure, they are not CHRISTIAN denominations (according to Evangelical consensus) but they identify themselves as Christian. My point was, and is, that denominations are not necessarily some evil conspiracies, or means to dividing the body of Christ, destroying unity. Unity and division, are effects of how we react to difference between us. I see a person, who believes in one God in three persons, who is/are the creator of Heaven and Earth, who (the person that is) believes that rebellion against God, or even failing to rise to the level of God's perfection, makes a person a sinner, separated from God. When such a person understands that the Word of God, the second person of the Trinity, became a man in the incarnation at the birth of Jesus, through a virgin, and grew to live a sinless life, and eventually die horribly to redeem sinners back to God, giving them His Perfection, and who will return one day, to judge the living and the dead, you get the idea . . . there I see a sibling in Christ, with whom I have unity, regardless of what a group of people he/she associates with like to call themselves. As a person who is a Christian, who happens to attend a Baptist church at the moment, I am not divided from Lutherans, or Methodists, Messianic Jews or Roman Catholics, to the degree that we agree on who God is, who Jesus is, what sin is, what the cure for sin is, etc. While I have positions about baptism, eschatology, salvation and other things, those things are not what makes me a spiritual sibling. Family squabbles to not prevent me from being a part of a family, and that is mostly, what denominations are, relatively petty stuff. To me, a denomination is usually a shorthand way, of expressing what the squabbles are. Does a friend like Fords or Chevies, BMWs or Hondas? I don't care, they can still be my friend. If I choose to hang out with others, based on their automotive preferences, I can do that, and I can do that in denominations. When people have ideas that create real division, ideas that I cannot tolerate - well that is what differences are for, why we must have them, so we can know who has God's approval, and who does not. 1 Cor 11:19: For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. ESV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted July 20, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: That is typical with Christians, especially Evangelicals. However, we have this way of making up definitions to suit ourselves. However using the following: Dictionary Search for a word cult /kəlt/ Learn to pronounce noun a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. "the cult of St. Olaf" great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book) a system of religious beliefs and ritual also : its body of adherents Christianity fits those definitions of a cult, just fine. Denominations, on the other hands, are: : NAME, DESIGNATION especially : a general name for a category listed under the general denomination of gifts : a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, fit those definitions of denominations. Sure, they are not CHRISTIAN denominations (according to Evangelical consensus) but they identify themselves as Christian. My point was, and is, that denominations are not necessarily some evil conspiracies, or means to dividing the body of Christ, destroying unity. Unity and division, are effects of how we react to difference between us. I see a person, who believes in one God in three persons, who is/are the creator of Heaven and Earth, who (the person that is) believes that rebellion against God, or even failing to rise to the level of God's perfection, makes a person a sinner, separated from God. When such a person understands that the Word of God, the second person of the Trinity, became a man in the incarnation at the birth of Jesus, through a virgin, and grew to live a sinless life, and eventually die horribly to redeem sinners back to God, giving them His Perfection, and who will return one day, to judge the living and the dead, you get the idea . . . there I see a sibling in Christ, with whom I have unity, regardless of what a group of people he/she associates with like to call themselves. As a person who is a Christian, who happens to attend a Baptist church at the moment, I am not divided from Lutherans, or Methodists, Messianic Jews or Roman Catholics, to the degree that we agree on who God is, who Jesus is, what sin is, what the cure for sin is, etc. While I have positions about baptism, eschatology, salvation and other things, those things are not what makes me a spiritual sibling. Family squabbles to not prevent me from being a part of a family, and that is mostly, what denominations are, relatively petty stuff. To me, a denomination is usually a shorthand way, of expressing what the squabbles are. Does a friend like Fords or Chevies, BMWs or Hondas? I don't care, they can still be my friend. If I choose to hang out with others, based on their automotive preferences, I can do that, and I can do that in denominations. When people have ideas that create real division, ideas that I cannot tolerate - well that is what differences are for, why we must have them, so we can know who has God's approval, and who does not. 1 Cor 11:19: For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. ESV The definition of cult does not fit Christianity. We are not devoted to a person, but rather God. That definition is describing a human only. Mormonism is a cult. They are devoted to the teachings of Joseph Smith. Jehovah Witnesses are devoted to the Watchtower. Just because one identifies themselves as a denomination means nothing if no one else outside of that group sees them as an actual Christian denomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted July 21, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 875 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 757 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/04/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2019 I’m didn’t read this. My first reaction is this happened because of sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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