Diaste Posted July 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, WilliamL said: The prophetic word prevents this. Specifically, Rev. 8-11:14, among many other passages, such as Isaiah 63:1-5 and 34:4-7. The latter explained here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1135-when-does-the-lord-smite-edom/ Nothing prevents this in all of scripture including the passages you cited. Are you saying there is no way God can gather the believers of the earth moments before wrath begins? So God could never begin wrath before some subjective span of time after the gathering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted July 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,111 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,550 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted July 9, 2019 10 hours ago, Diaste said: More than once I have heard this idea that coming in the clouds for believers both alive and dead cannot be associated with Jesus gathering us from the earth to the clouds then staying and coming to the ground to defeat His enemy. What prevents this? Are we to believe it's impossible for Jesus to gather the elect and then within minutes or hours stand on the Mount of Olives, cleave the Mount, create a great valley where the remnant takes refuge, and then commence pouring the anger of God and Himself upon the rebels of the world? That's an impossible scenario? An all powerful God cannot do this? I should have quoted you more fully. My bad. It is more specifically the second paragraph above that is impossible according to the sequence of Revelation. Jesus' descent upon the Mount of Olives = Zech. 14 and Rev. 19, which cannot come before the Lord defeats Edom "alone," as the following excerpt shows: When Does the Lord Smite Edom? Isaiah 63:1 Who is this who comes from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? This one who is glorious in his apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength? I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save. 2 Why is your apparel red, and your garments like one who treads in the winepress? 3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I trod them in my anger, and trampled them in my fury; and their blood has been spattered upon my garments, and I have stained all my robes. 4 For the Day of Vengeance [i.e., Wrath] is in My heart, and the year of My redeemed has come. 5 I looked, but there was no one [else] to help, and I wondered, because there was no one [else] to uphold; Therefore My own arm brought salvation for me, and My own fury, it sustained Me. Isaiah 34:4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll… Revelation 6:12 And I looked when he opened the Sixth Seal… 14 And the sky receded like a scroll when it is rolled up… Isaiah 34:4 All their host shall fall down…as figs falling from a fig tree. Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its unripe figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. … Isaiah 34:5 For My sword shall be bathed in heaven, indeed it shall come down on Edom, And on the people of My curse, for judgment. 6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood… For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Edom. 7 Because it is the Day of the LORDʼs Vengeance… Revelation 6:17 For the Great Day of His Wrath has come, and who is able to stand? Must not the things above – and specifically, this bloody battle fought with the Edomites by the Lord alone – come before this? Rev. 19:11 And I saw heaven having been opened, and behold a white horse; and the one sitting upon him being called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. … 13 And [he] having been clothed with a garment having been covered in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him… 19 And I saw the Beast, and the kings of the earth and their armies, having been assembled to make war with Him who sat on the horse and with his army. Are not these TWO distinct events that take place separately? Namely, 1st: The Lord alone, getting His garment stained with blood. 2nd: The Lord with the armies of heaven, “with a garment [already] having been covered/stained [perfect passive participle] in blood,” going out to a another battle sometime after the former battle. At that later battle, at which time heaven will be opened, Rev. 19:11-13 testifies that Jesus’ clothing will already have been covered in blood. Blood only comes from bodies of flesh. Bodies of flesh and blood only dwell upon the face of the earth. Therefore, what other explanation for this blood is possible than this: Jesus’ clothing will become blood-soaked on earth sometime before his descent in Rev. 19 to fight with the Beast and his allies? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted July 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2019 40 minutes ago, WilliamL said: Therefore, what other explanation for this blood is possible than this: Jesus’ clothing will become blood-soaked on earth sometime before his descent in Rev. 19 to fight with the Beast and his allies? ... I don't know yet. I'm at work so I dont have time to put in the required study. But I'm definitely intrigued and I hope to remember to check it out sometime this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted July 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, WilliamL said: At that later battle, at which time heaven will be opened, Rev. 19:11-13 testifies that Jesus’ clothing will already have been covered in blood. Blood only comes from bodies of flesh. Bodies of flesh and blood only dwell upon the face of the earth. Therefore, what other explanation for this blood is possible than this: Jesus’ clothing will become blood-soaked on earth sometime before his descent in Rev. 19 to fight with the Beast and his allies? It's an assumption that the blood of the robe in Rev 19:13 is the same blood that is spattered from the Edom trip. His robe could represent the righteous act of sacrificing Himself for the sins of the world and the blood on it is the blood He shed on the cross. Also of note is that the blood of the robe in Rev 19:13 got on there from being dipped in blood and the Edom blood was spattered . . . different ways of getting blood on one's robe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted July 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,111 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,550 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Last Daze said: It's an assumption that the blood of the robe in Rev 19:13 is the same blood that is spattered from the Edom trip. His robe could represent the righteous act of sacrificing Himself for the sins of the world and the blood on it is the blood He shed on the cross. Also of note is that the blood of the robe in Rev 19:13 got on there from being dipped in blood and the Edom blood was spattered . . . different ways of getting blood on one's robe. Dipped is one possible translation: immersed, soaked, and covered are others. Hard to understand how the blood of the cross somehow makes it to this garment. In Isaiah 63, the Hebrew verb nazah primarily mean spurted (on), not spattered. The second verb, ga'al, means polluted. Both these meanings fit the understanding of a great deal of blood drenching a garment of a warrior who single-handedly kills every soldier in an Edomite army. Such blood was polluting/defiling. Isaiah 34:5 For My sword shall be bathed in heaven, indeed it shall come down on Edom, And on the people of My curse, for judgment. 6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood… For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Edom. Edited July 9, 2019 by WilliamL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted July 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, WilliamL said: Dipped is one possible translation: immersed, soaked, and covered are others. Hard to understand how the blood of the cross somehow makes it to this garment. Do you think that the blood of Jesus is still in the ground here on earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENOCH2010 Posted July 10, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 907 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1866 Share Posted July 10, 2019 The Bozrah battle is the first stop of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted July 10, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,934 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Diaste said: I get it. You think the armies that come with Jesus are the resurrected dead and the translated living. No, the armies consist of the angels. Jesus comes with His holy ones which are angels and not the elect. He does not rescue His bride and then bring her to war. Cowboys do ride horses cause they don't hv wings, where in history Angels ride horses n are they horse race jockeys ? Angels abide in heaven and battle in heaven with the dragon, this war is Armageddon between man and man over the earth possession, no angels will take part. Edited July 10, 2019 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted July 10, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,581 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,443 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted July 10, 2019 12 hours ago, Last Daze said: It's an assumption that the blood of the robe in Rev 19:13 is the same blood that is spattered from the Edom trip. His robe could represent the righteous act of sacrificing Himself for the sins of the world and the blood on it is the blood He shed on the cross. Also of note is that the blood of the robe in Rev 19:13 got on there from being dipped in blood and the Edom blood was spattered . . . different ways of getting blood on one's robe. Shalom, Last Daze. Just to add to WilliamL's words, when Yeshua` died, He wasn't wearing a robe! In point of fact, He wasn't wearing anything! They put a royal robe upon Him to mock Him as "king," but they removed it for the crucifixion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted July 10, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,581 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,443 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted July 10, 2019 8 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Cowboys do ride horses cause they don't hv wings, where in history Angels ride horses n are they horse race jockeys ? Angels abide in heaven and battle in heaven with the dragon, this war is Armageddon between man and man over the earth possession, no angels will take part. Shalom, R. Hartono. A simple addition to this argument (which MAY help) is that aggelos means a "MESSENGER" and may also refer to HUMAN messengers! Thus, these "aggeloi" may be human and may also be those who were resurrected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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