Alternative Timeline? Comparing the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments

[Marilyn C]

20 hours ago, Spock said:

One observation I have looking at your diagram and comparing the timing of the trumpets and bowls is that you have trumpets 1-4 in the first half of the week whereby you have all the bowls in the second half of the week. 

If I am right in thinking each trumpet and corresponding bowl are SIMILAR (1e, 1=1, 2=2, etc) then shouldn’t bowls 1-4 also be in the first week, if you agree the bowls just add more details to the trumpets and refer to the same judgment? 

Hi Spock,

I agree that the 6^th Trumpet & 6^th Bowl relate to the 200 million army coming from the East and over the Euphrates. Then the 7^th Bowl with the great earthquake is just before the Lord returns after the 7^th Trumpet. So I see they correspond somewhat.

Now as to the beginning of the bowls.  Starting at Rev. 15 & on to Rev. 16.

1.Rev. 15: 1.`the 7 last plagues.` So they are not the first but the last.

2.Rev. 15: 2 `those who have the victory over the beast.` Thus they are in the second part of the trib.

3.Rev. 15: 5 - 8 `After these things....7....bowls full of the wrath of God...`

4. Rev. 16: 2 `...a foul & loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast & those who worshipped his image.` Thus in the second part of the trib.

 

Thus I see the 7 bowls of God`s wrath are in the second half of the trib, and `complete` it. (Rev. 15: 1)

 

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

(This is an except from my uncle`s book - `Fires before the Dawn.)

THE KINGS OF THE EAST

 

   `They gathered the Kings together to a place that is called Armageddon.`(Rev. 16: 16)

 

One of the most significant & overwhelming responses to this edict will emanate from a vast & populous territory. One of which there is no record of previous involvement in end-times events.

 `The great river Euphrates dried up, to prepare the way for the Kings of the East.` (Rev. 16: 12)

This refers obviously to a power-bloc far removed geographically from previous world events. Kings of the `Sunrising` is a closer literal translation. It is the historical designation of nationalities populating the orient. Countries which for centuries have remained isolated from the rest of the world. `Kings of the East` is thus a synonym of the Orient & includes all the principalities of that area.

 

Japan was the catalyst which shattered any illusion the Western Nations might have entertained regarding the militaristic potential & ambitions of this region.  They charted a course for conquest & domination during World War 2 which subjugated a large area of Asia & Oceania.

 

[Marilyn C]

Direction Right – Timing Wrong

Their expressed ambition & purpose was even to expand beyond the Orient, & to influence the course of the war in the Middle East. The official History of the Royal Australian Navy record:-

`The German Ambassador in Tokyo telegraphed his Foreign Minister Ribbentrop the result of an interview he had with Japanese Foreign Minister, Togo. Togo advised him, inter alia, that Japanese Naval operations in the Indian Ocean would correspond with the German desire for a Japanese advance toward the Middle East.

Vice-Admiral Nagumo (who led the attack on Pearl Harbour) sailed into the Indian Ocean with a powerful striking force. The British Eastern Fleet, with vastly inferior numbers & gun-power, were ordered to retire to Kilindini, in East Africa. Nothing stood between the Japanese Fleet & the Middle East. However, planes from their aircraft-carriers had bombed Ceylon twice, enroute. So many aircraft had been shot down that Nagumo had to return to Japan for  replenishment of aircraft & pilots.

 

Re-equipped they were ready to continue westward into the Indian Ocean towards a possible link with the Western Axis Powers in the Middle East.

For some inexplicable reason, the Japanese Imperial headquarters suddenly changed their plan of operations. They decided to thrust eastwards & capture Port Moresby, Midway, & Hawaii, in that order.`

 

The allied Navy, as a result of gaining possession of the Japanese code-secrets, knew the enemy plans, intercepted & defeated them at the battle of the Coral Sea.

Britain was able to reinforce its Eastern Fleet & effectively to control the Indian Ocean. Japan went on to overwhelming defeat.

God had set the `Appointed Time.` This was not the moment for the Kings of the East to come to the Middle East. Japan was decades ahead of God`s schedule!

[Marilyn C]

                                 Red Dragon Take Over

 

Subsequent upon the defeat of Japan, Communist China emerged as the dominant force in the orient. China certainly has an enormous population, & has made remarkable progress in the production of weapons of war. However, what is predicted and envisaged in Revelation is the mobilization of a giant confederacy of all the oriental countries. China, of course, will take precedence by virtue of their immense man-power. However, their indigenous numerical strength will be augmented by their adjacent ethnological allies.

The army of the Kings of the East will be the largest ever statistically conceived. Two hundred million troops on the road to Armageddon. Imagine the amazement of the Apostle John. At that time the whole population of the entire world barely reached that figure. By way of comparison, during World War 2, fifty million was the maximum number engaged in all armies, both allied and enemy, combined.

In this context a two hundred million combat force certainly presents an incredible numerical concept. However, with the current popu­lation explosion in the Orient, for the first time in history, such a predicted number is not only conceivable but actually available. One has only to walk through the streets of any Chinese town; or travel in a Chinese tram, to encounter an amazing number of armed uniformed troops.

Make no mistake:-

"God has prepared that exact number specifically for this very hour, and day, and month, and year." (Rev. 9:15-16)

The Appointed Time is set!

[Marilyn C]

                                        The Overlanders

 

This mighty coalition of oriental powers has, in the predictable future, neither the naval or air force capability to transport such a gigantic force. However, rapid overland transportation through China, and consequent deployment to Armageddon has recently been impressively facilitated.

China Tourism Magazine reports:-

To speed up development of tourism, "Tarmaced" highways have replaced the old camel-tracks meandering paths, air-conditioned deluxe passenger coaches travel at speeds of 120 kilometres per hour, skirting the Gobi desert at altitudes of over 4,000 metres.

From Kashgar, the terminus of the ancient "Silk Road", the newly engineered Karakoram Highway climbs over the Khunerjab Pass which like a sentinel commands, at 4,785 metres altitude, access into Pakistan and the West.

 

A travel agency in Paris has designed a 28 day trip which follows this legendary Silk Road in its entirety".

 

This ancient "Silk Road" formed a gigantic link from the capital of China, in Han times, to the shores of the Mediterranean Sea.

The way of the Kings of the East has not only been prepared, as predicted; but it has literally been 'paved'!

 

[Marilyn C]

New Eurasian Continental Bridge

 

Infinitely more significant, however, than even the above-mentioned impressive modernising of the overland highways, are the implica­tions of the immense project just completed. The current issue of 'China Today*, the official monthly publication devoted to promul­gating and eulogizing that country's 'Reconstruction Progress', provides an enthusiastic report :-

"A new Eurasian Continental Bridge is a major accomplishment for the 1990's. The ambitious undertaking was to construct a 'continen­tal bridge' to convey passengers and freight 10,800 kilometres from the eastern coast of China to the Mediterranean and European ports in one smooth continuous operation. Compared to marine naviga­tion this would shorten the distance by 10,000 kilometres, thus saving considerable cost and time.

 

There are only four continental bridges in the world, this - the newest - commenced operation, as scheduled, in mid 1991. The China section of the trunk railway transverses 4,200 kilometres from Lianyungang on the East China Sea across the entire country to the Alatawa Pass on its Western border frontier. There it connects with the already established railroad system to the Mediterranean and Europe. (See map of China and Railroads)

Lianyungang was designated in 1985, as the eastern terminal of this project. Since then fabrication of ultra-modern dock facilities have been especially designed and constructed uniquely for this purpose. The port is capable of handling containers, and providing other consignment facilities simultaneously and expeditiously.

 

Xuzhou, 230 kilometres to the west, is the communications hub and crossroads of the Eurasian Continental Bridge. This terminal integrates into the system the trunk railways from the northern provinces routed through Beijing; together with those from Shang­hai and the south. Xuzhou railway station, completed 1991 extends over 11.5 kilometres, with a remarkable fully automated transport capacity. Direct trains pass through every 2 or 3 minutes -passenger and freight trains operating on separate individual lines. Xuzhou was, and is a strategic military site in both current and modem times."

 

The phenomenal significance of this extensively planned, compe­tently executed and efficiently operated Eurasian Continental Bridge is startlingly obvious, with particular contemporary connotations.

 

[Marilyn C]

The 'Way of the Kings of the East' to Armageddon is no longer an ancient prophecy, an obscure prediction, or an academic theory, but is a stark evident reality. This is such an obvious sign of the fulfilment of the prophecies of the Bible, that even the most bigoted sceptic cannot fail to be so impressed. Consider:-

 

1. A modem efficient multi-terminal port is already available for the speedy disembarkation of China's Oriental allies:- i.e. the rest of the 'Kings of the East'.

    

   2. The New Eurasian Continental Bridge east-west trunk railway will provide expeditious and speedy transport all the way to Arma­geddon;

    

(a)Facilities for the full complement of troops specifically designated in the Biblical prophecy - Revelation 9:16.

(b) Separate rail tracks for simultaneous transport of their tanks, guns and other armaments of a modem mechanised army.

[Marilyn C]

Dried Up River Bed

 

The Euphrates River has consistently figured prominently in, and invariably presented a formidable barrier for, the Great Empires of the past. This caused by its geographical location bisecting, as it does, the whole of the Middle East from North to South, plus its remarkable length. It originates in Turkey and flows practically three thousand kilometres to the Persian Gulf at Iraq, and is virtually devoid of fordable crossings. Symbolically, as well as practically, it has always been considered the ancient demarcation line between East and West.

 

Rudyard Kipling, England's first Nobel prize winner, encapsulated it concisely in his "Ballad".

"East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet".

God has ordained and predicted that there will be a meeting on a massive and far-reaching scale. A specific and unmistakable sign will precisely indicate the time-slot.

"The Great River Euphrates was 'Dried up' to prepare the way for the Kings of the East" (Rev. 16:12)

The "Gap" project is one of the most ambitious programs ever undertaken in Turkey. It is an integrated project involving the building of a series of dams and hydroelectric power plants on the Euphrates and Tigris rivers.

 

The Turkish Government advises:-

"When completed it will supply fifty percent of their electrical power and irrigate nearly two million hectares of land in the south-east plains surrounding the rivers (see Gulf Area Map). There will be eleven large dams on the river Euphrates. The Ataturk Dam has already been completed."

As a direct result of this achievement, intensive condemnation was forcefully expressed by the nations downstream. The Baghdad correspondent of the Melbourne Sun-Herald quoted from the official newspaper 'Al-Thawra':-

The Iraqi Government has lodged very strong diplomatic com­plaints. The River Euphrates was diverted for thirty days to fill this new dam in Turkey. The once fertile fields of wheat and barley in the Euphrates basin are dried-up wastelands and desert".

 

Currently relations between Syria and Turkey are severely strained for the same reason. In spite of this the remaining extensive projects of this 'Gap' program are progressing on schedule. The River Euphrates is drying up. The stage is set for the Kings of the East.   It is later than we think!

 

 

[Spock]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

I agree that the 6^th Trumpet & 6^th Bowl relate to the 200 million army coming from the East and over the Euphrates. Then the 7^th Bowl with the great earthquake is just before the Lord returns after the 7^th Trumpet. So I see they correspond somewhat.

Now as to the beginning of the bowls.  Starting at Rev. 15 & on to Rev. 16.

1.Rev. 15: 1.`the 7 last plagues.` So they are not the first but the last.

2.Rev. 15: 2 `those who have the victory over the beast.` Thus they are in the second part of the trib.

3.Rev. 15: 5 - 8 `After these things....7....bowls full of the wrath of God...`

4. Rev. 16: 2 `...a foul & loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast & those who worshipped his image.` Thus in the second part of the trib.

 

Thus I see the 7 bowls of God`s wrath are in the second half of the trib, and `complete` it. (Rev. 15: 1)

 

regards, Marilyn.

So you agree with Rev Man that the first 4 trumpets are partial judgments (one third) but the first 4 bowls are complete judgments (full) of basically the same thing (same or very similar judgment).  

That they are not the same judgment with more detail but rather two very distinct different judgments at different times. Is this right? 

But you believe the 6th and 7th Judgment of each (trumpet and bowls) are the same event, not two distinct events at different times. In other words 6th trumpet = 6th bowl and 7th trumpet =7th bowl) Is this correct?

[dhchristian]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

All that is great brother, but if you think I base my studies off of one word you have no understanding of how I operate.

I Have had many a run in with people that operate as you do, On All sides of the fence when it comes to end time eschatology. There is one thing I Know, and that is that No man knows the whole Picture of the how the end unfolds. They may think they know, but they do not. And that person that is a know it all, and is unable to learn through the fellowship of the saints is problematic in the church as they are on forums such as this.

Yes it is God's timeline we are searching for, and I can guarantee you that you do not have it figured out as they are sealed up. For example, Do you know what the seven thunders are in rev. 10? Or what is the message that Daniel sealed up in Daniel 12:4? Or what was written in the Little scroll that John ate that was sweet in his mouth but bitter in his belly? We can speculate, we can surmise, we can logically study all these things, but we cannot fully know them.

No One of us has the whole counsel of God. To Make this claim is just mental Hubris on the Part of man. It is in fact the bad fruit of the carnal mind which is at enmity against God. (Rom 8:7) There are two kinds of Wisdom one that is earthy and comes from the carnal mind, which is increasing as we speak due to the free flow of information on the WWW, (Daniel 12:4) and then there is the Wisdom that is from God. The first thing we need to receive the wisdom that is from God is to denounce the carnal mind (Proverbs 3:5-7), and become teachable. Then Pray the Prayer found in Eph. 1:17ff that Paul prayed, and be taught by the Holy Ghost. You see, The carnal mind must be replaced by the mind of Christ. Then and only then, will Jesus become your "All in all". 

making mention of you in my prayers;

Eph 1:17

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Eph 1:18

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Eph 1:19

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Eph 1:20

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Eph 1:21

Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Eph 1:22

¶

And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Eph 1:23

Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.