Alternative Timeline? Comparing the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments

[dhchristian]

49 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

5 hours ago, dhchristian said:

No Touche, I am not dodging your points I am making a point you cannot explain as to the identity of the saints.

You made NO POINT, because you don't understand who the Saints mentioned are. You can't engage on a subject when you don't know who you are even speaking about. And yes, you dodge every pertinent point you can't overcome on every post. And I usually disengage from people who do that. I am not here to only argue your salient points. If you don't even have a come back, there is a reason. 

5 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Protestantism in general fails to distinguish between the saints and the faithful. I am also making a distinction between the Body and bride of Christ, One you have never made with your eschatology, which distinguishes the faithful and the saints. Instead you say the revelation saints are just "half steppers"...

This is an UNTRUTH by you...it shows you don't listen or even read others posts but you just REPLY. I stated they are FAITHFUL CHRISTIANS were were not following Christ at the time of the Rapture in full...........OR they were believers but never gave their lives to Christ BEFORE the Rapture. Of course you can't see the Rapture, so its easier for you to twist what I stated than to be factual. 

The Saints or REMNANT CHURCH....SEE THAT ? Its a Remnant, do you know what Remnant means ? look it up !! The Remnant Church is seen in Rev. 12:17. This is one you have dodged countless times....Will you answer it this time ? The REMNANT can't be Jews, thus they have to be the Church, thus if its a REMNANT the FULL Church has to be ELSEWHERE {in Heaven}. The reason you dodge it is because you know its true brother. 

The 1/3 Jews the Dragon can't get at.....the 2/3 Jews don't have the Testimony of Jesus....so WHO'S THE REMNANT ? The Church....so where is the rest of the Church ? In Heaven....via the Rapture. Do I need to go a bit at a time to get you to answer ? 

Here comes Jannes other half....

I Have not dodged any of your questions, in fact, now you are contradicting your original comments on the saints being half steppers... did I change your mind? My message has been consistent since I got here. Rev 12 has two woman By woman, she is no longer virginal, and a Bride to be. This is the Woman, the church that has fallen into harlotry, and the Nation of Israel which is a harlot already. One flees into the wilderness, Israel, while the other is carried on wings of Eagles. The Woman church, That goes into the wilderness will eventually emerge atop the beast that ascends from the Bottomless pit in Rev. 17, But the saints of this last church VOLUNTARILY and out of Love for Israel and the people in the church went into the great tribulation Chosen of God to stand in the Gap and thereby extend the time of mercy for that extra 42 months. They stand in the Gap, Like the guy in Tienemnan square stood in front of the column of tanks. They are the Oaks of righteousness as spoken of in Isaiah 61. And the ones that turn many to righteousness as spoken of in Daniel 12.

You cannot receive this because your scribes have dictated to you exactly how the unfolding is going to occur. But the problem is, many of those things are a mystery awaiting to be revealed. Your counterpart, Iamlamad, cannot receive this because he is so caught up in his exclusion of anyone who has not had the gift tongues and uses this to disqualify the revelations of God Given to me to be a messenger of... So we have Jannes and Jambres… Tweedle dee, and tweedle dum…. Both so closed minded and blind to what is happening that they cannot be taught. Can the teacher be taught? Or are they so high minded that they cannot receive the warning of  this donkey... (I use donkey because of my stubbornness, and because God used a speaking donkey with Balaam) And would rather smite him.... do you get it now? 

I Do not exclude the pre-trib rapture of the bride, I Just see the saints as the overcomers willingly entering into the GT to glorify God and to fulfill the Day of Atonement.... But that is too much for your cult of textualism to explain. 

If you are not familiar with what I am saying about scribes and the cult of textualism read the following article.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19117&forum=36

If you want to classify me as a charismatic, you will fail, if Iamlamad wants to classify me as a fundamentalist, he has failed. You can resist all you want, but you will never arrive at the Truth. And both of you will be exposed for who you are. Go to the cross, be zealous and repent, pray for God to give you eyesalve, and the spiritual riches of His Word, and the fine linen so you can cloth yourself. We are all Laodiceans we all need to heed this letter and the instruction therein, we are the Amen church. Time is short. None of this is about me being right, but about us getting it right...

God Bless.  

 

 

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, dhchristian said:

I Have not dodged any of your questions, in fact, now you are contradicting your original comments on the saints being half steppers...

No I am not, it just proves you don't use common sense...Let me show you how. They are FAITHFUL whilst they refuse the MotB and try to run from the evil Anti-Christ, WE KNOW THAT else they would have taken the MotB !! They were not Faithful when the Church was Raptured else they wouldn't be on earth, they would be in Heaven with the rest of the Church !! So they AREN'T HALF STEPPERS in real time, as you want to imply, they were half steppers, else they wouldn't have been left on earth. BUT.....They ARE in real time....Faithful Servants. You can't ever mix me up on scriptures, no matter how hard you try, there is nothing that will work on me brother. Just answer the posts or better yet admit it when you see you are wrong. Don't try to bend the obstacle course.

12 hours ago, dhchristian said:

My message has been consistent since I got here. Rev 12 has two woman By woman, she is no longer virginal, and a Bride to be. This is the Woman, the church that has fallen into harlotry, and the Nation of Israel which is a harlot already. One flees into the wilderness, Israel, while the other is carried on wings of Eagles.

There is one woman mentioned twice in Rev. 12, both times the woman is called Israel. The Remnant Church is the portion of the Church not in Heaven marrying the Lamb Jesus. The Harlot is not the Church, it is ALL FALSE RELIGION. Nor can it be the Church. 

12 hours ago, dhchristian said:

The Woman church, That goes into the wilderness will eventually emerge atop the beast that ascends from the Bottomless pit in Rev. 17, But the saints of this last church VOLUNTARILY and out of Love for Israel and the people in the church went into the great tribulation Chosen of God to stand in the Gap and thereby extend the time of mercy for that extra 42 months. They stand in the Gap, Like the guy in Tienemnan square stood in front of the column of tanks. They are the Oaks of righteousness as spoken of in Isaiah 61. And the ones that turn many to righteousness as spoken of in Daniel 12.

The Harlot of Rev. 12 is ALL FALSE RELIGION. It can not be the Church. It has the Blood of the Saints AND the blood of the Martyrs of Jesus which means she was alive on BOTH SIDES of the Cross !! The Church is not in every Nation, the Harlot Religions are in every nation.  The colors Scarlet and Purple are assoc. with Royalty and Piousness, not the RCC per se. Israel's High Priest wore Purple. The Blasphemy is serving FALSE GODS !! Verse 4 is a picture of Daniel 5's MENE, MENE, TEKEL event. 

Verse 5 is the Harlots FOUR DESCRIPTORS.....Mystery means the Mystery Religions that emerged from Babylon........Babylon the Great is where all these False Religions were BIRTHED or where they originated from.........Thus the Mother of Harlots was Semiramis.......And serving FALSE GODS is always an ABOMINATION unto God. So all the clues point to FALSE RELIGION, not the Church. That's just bad detective work. There is no Mystery after {post} verse 7, the Angel says he is going to tell us THE MYSTERY then proceeds to do so.

Verses 8-18 is all about the Harlot and the Government Beasts of the World, and the Beast and his 10 Kings KILL OFF the Harlot !! Not the Church, but the Harlot Religions that God is Judging thus it is no more.

So you have the Church being the Harlot when its not nor can it be. 

12 hours ago, dhchristian said:

You cannot receive this because your scribes have dictated to you exactly how the unfolding is going to occur. But the problem is, many of those things are a mystery awaiting to be revealed. Your counterpart, Iamlamad, cannot receive this because he is so caught up in his exclusion of anyone who has not had the gift tongues and uses this to disqualify the revelations of God Given to me to be a messenger of... So we have Jannes and Jambres… Tweedle dee, and tweedle dum…. Both so closed minded and blind to what is happening that they cannot be taught. Can the teacher be taught? Or are they so high minded that they cannot receive the warning of  this donkey... (I use donkey because of my stubbornness, and because God used a speaking donkey with Balaam) And would rather smite him.... do you get it now? 

Number 1, I listen for God's voice, I don't follow men.....notice many things God has revealed to me that others are not onto yet, like the 1260, 1290 and 1335. Like the 144,000 being the Fleeing Jews etc. etc. So I don't follow men. But that whole RCC is the Harlot is indeed of men, I heard that over 30 years ago. 

Iamlamad thinks the Seals were opened 2000 years ago, so I really don't take any of that serious. I at times take you serious, but the problem is you like to skip the points that you can't overcome. That is a no no....face all the challenges, thus its worth my time, if you are just going to use another person's post to POWER POINT to another rant, I am wasting my time brother. Not everyone has the gift of the tongues, I agree, nor is there a modern day purpose per se where millions speak different languages or all the same language. It can be a sign, but it would not be a "MARVEL" today when men can get on the computer and learn a different language through a correspondence course. 

And I am willing to converse, but not to hear a one sided testimony, if I answer all your points, I expect the same, else you are just dodging pertinent facts, and the ultimate goal is the TRUTH, no matter how we get there. So I learn every day from God, He corrects me all the time. I love being wrong, it means I am learning. My blog on Babylon was God correcting me, that it was NOT Rome.....but that it meant Babylon, just like it stated on her Forehead. By learning to follow God instead of Men's Traditions, I learned all of Revelation and its Chronology. I do know this, God is not saying the Harlot is the Church. It doesn't match up, Hes also not telling anyone the Church is going through the 70th Week Tribulation, now He does say the Remnant Church will go through the 70th week. 

As per all the names, that's not my bag. 

12 hours ago, dhchristian said:

I Do not exclude the pre-trib rapture of the bride, I Just see the saints as the overcomers willingly entering into the GT to glorify God and to fulfill the Day of Atonement.... But that is too much for your cult of textualism to explain. 

If you are not familiar with what I am saying about scribes and the cult of textualism read the following article.

I agree they are Saints, but they are Saints that come to Christ AFTER the Rapture. You conflate the two. The Saints will be killed, they are the Martyrs under the 5th Seal. I have explained it time and again. I show you the Church IN HEAVEN in Rev. 4 and 5,  before the Seals are opened. I show you the Church IN HEAVEN Marrying the Lamb, then returning with Christ whilst the Beast is STILL ON EARTH. I don't care about any "ISM"....If you can't make a case for or against I am not inclined to research it. 

12 hours ago, dhchristian said:

If you want to classify me as a charismatic, you will fail, if Iamlamad wants to classify me as a fundamentalist, he has failed.

I could care less what you are, I never brought it up, I am just explaining scriptures. 

12 hours ago, dhchristian said:

You can resist all you want, but you will never arrive at the Truth.

Well I am not ever going to call the Church the Harlot, because it's not brother.

12 hours ago, dhchristian said:

And both of you will be exposed for who you are. Go to the cross, be zealous and repent, pray for God to give you eyesalve, and the spiritual riches of His Word, and the fine linen so you can cloth yourself. We are all Laodiceans we all need to heed this letter and the instruction therein, we are the Amen church. Time is short. None of this is about me being right, but about us getting it right...

God Bless.  

Don't get offended because I challenge you brother. We are to sharpen each other......Iamlam is not someone I can converse with either. Brothers slap each other around, but have each others back. If I am making a stern point, it means I want you to think about it, not ignore my point, you might still disagree, but point out why. Ignoring the point just wastes time......Can you see Ben Shapiro spending 1o minutes debating taxes and the other teams Counterpoint was about FLOWERS ? Ben would soon throw up his hands and say, what's the point in the back and forth here ? 

Cover everything, if you disagree vehemently, I can learn.....I have learned SO MANY THINGS from these back and forths, even when I was making a counterpoint argument to another person. I can take disagreement, I am a big boy. Just don't skip the points you can't overcome....Those are where I have learned many things over the years. I learned to take them on, head on, about 5 years ago, instead of avoiding things I couldn't explain, thus God teaches me.

For instance, Daniel 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 sat the EXACT OPPOSITE THINGS......One says the Anti-Christ/Beast is KILLED and the other says he is CAST ALIVE into the lake of fire.....................Which one is right ? Because of me learning to take these things on, God taught me this truth, both are right, and there is no conflict at all. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

I'm with you on this. The word is preached. If they are not against us they are for us.

I for one have a tough time with condemning the overall work. None are perfect, me especially, and we know them by their fruit; some good, some overripe. 

Thanks! It is a dangerous thing to make fun of any work of the Holy Spirit.

Paul was not real happy with what was being preached in one place, but was thankful Christ WAS being preached.

Philippians 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Just through one preacher, who is now gone to heaven, there are 60,000 graduates of his bible schools - many of whom are now preaching the gospel.  His bible school has grown to over 250 schools around the world. Just one church in Tulsa has created 980 bible schools in 85 nations of the world! It would be very dangerous to speak against such mighty works of God. 

I think there are many such works going on in the world today by Charismatic or Pentecostal men of God. if people are being born again and added to the body of Christ on earth, who cares who does the preaching? 

Thanks again.

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Here comes Jannes other half....

I Have not dodged any of your questions, in fact, now you are contradicting your original comments on the saints being half steppers... did I change your mind? My message has been consistent since I got here. Rev 12 has two woman By woman, she is no longer virginal, and a Bride to be. This is the Woman, the church that has fallen into harlotry, and the Nation of Israel which is a harlot already. One flees into the wilderness, Israel, while the other is carried on wings of Eagles. The Woman church, That goes into the wilderness will eventually emerge atop the beast that ascends from the Bottomless pit in Rev. 17, But the saints of this last church VOLUNTARILY and out of Love for Israel and the people in the church went into the great tribulation Chosen of God to stand in the Gap and thereby extend the time of mercy for that extra 42 months. They stand in the Gap, Like the guy in Tienemnan square stood in front of the column of tanks. They are the Oaks of righteousness as spoken of in Isaiah 61. And the ones that turn many to righteousness as spoken of in Daniel 12.

You cannot receive this because your scribes have dictated to you exactly how the unfolding is going to occur. But the problem is, many of those things are a mystery awaiting to be revealed. Your counterpart, Iamlamad, cannot receive this because he is so caught up in his exclusion of anyone who has not had the gift tongues and uses this to disqualify the revelations of God Given to me to be a messenger of... So we have Jannes and Jambres… Tweedle dee, and tweedle dum…. Both so closed minded and blind to what is happening that they cannot be taught. Can the teacher be taught? Or are they so high minded that they cannot receive the warning of  this donkey... (I use donkey because of my stubbornness, and because God used a speaking donkey with Balaam) And would rather smite him.... do you get it now? 

I Do not exclude the pre-trib rapture of the bride, I Just see the saints as the overcomers willingly entering into the GT to glorify God and to fulfill the Day of Atonement.... But that is too much for your cult of textualism to explain. 

If you are not familiar with what I am saying about scribes and the cult of textualism read the following article.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19117&forum=36

If you want to classify me as a charismatic, you will fail, if Iamlamad wants to classify me as a fundamentalist, he has failed. You can resist all you want, but you will never arrive at the Truth. And both of you will be exposed for who you are. Go to the cross, be zealous and repent, pray for God to give you eyesalve, and the spiritual riches of His Word, and the fine linen so you can cloth yourself. We are all Laodiceans we all need to heed this letter and the instruction therein, we are the Amen church. Time is short. None of this is about me being right, but about us getting it right...

God Bless. 

You can resist all you want, but you will never arrive at the Truth  Why would you write such a thing?  Even if we were resisting something, we could repent! We three all were born again by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and by our faith in His shed blood.  I think we all HAVE this truth.  What this seems like is you rising up in pride saying I HAVE THE TRUTH, and you don't.  Do you imagine RM and I have not been to the cross? Why would you assume such a thing?

Let's take about who gets raptured: Paul tells us those who are "in Christ."  I think we are justified in qualifying that with other scriptures. For example, where Jesus said that if we don't forgive, then neither will the Father forgive us. Therefore, I think we must disqualify all those who are harboring unforgiveness: they are not going to be qualified for the rapture. I call this sin a "deal breaker." The deal is, all who are in Christ will be raptured: but if people live in unforgiveness, they are breaking God's deal.

Another deal breaker is fornication: if someone "in Christ" is living in fornication and not repenting, they are breaking God's deal.

It is written that liars will not make it into heaven. That would be another deal breaker.  Someone that practices lying and not repenting are breaking God's deal with them.

According to the above, NOT ALL who are "in Christ" will be raptured.

How about the lukewarm? Are they even born again and so "in Christ?"  Perhaps SOME of them, perhaps none of them. What say you?

There are millions of "Christians" who love God but attend churches that fail to teach people that they must be born again.  I could name denominations but I won't. People who call themselves "Christian" but are not born again will be left behind.

Are we in agreement here so far?

Then there is the parable of the ten virgins. All had oil, but some ran out. Is this parable about the rapture? I think it is. Jesus said, "I don't know you." He did NOT say that He never knew them. I suspect there are believers who were born again at one time but just never made any attempt to live for God or fellowship with Him. He can honestly say that He does not know them because they never come to him in prayer. Agree or not?

What we have then are many many people who call themselves Christian, but are just not going to be caught up. That is why John used the word translated "remnant."

The Woman church, That goes into the wilderness   Who are these? Are you using scripture or human reasoning? Jesus said those in JUDEA would flee. My friend, these would be JEWS and HEBREWS, not "the church." 

the church that has fallen into harlotry  Remember when Elijah said he was the only one, and was corrected  - being told there were 7000?  There are MILLIONS and MILLIONS of believers today who are true to God and rapture ready. Surely you believe this!

The Woman church, That goes into the wilderness will eventually emerge atop the beast   Where on earth do you get this stuff? It will be Jews and Hebrews from Judea that flee into the wilderness and they will be protected from harm and will be with Jesus during His millennial reign! This is what scripture tells us.

Who exactly is it atop the Beast? John saw a woman, but told us exactly the meaning: the city of Jerusalem. Why can't you just believe John? He is talking about Jerusalem during the time when the Beast and false prophet are deceiving the ENTIRE WORLD from that city. By deception, Jerusalem is controling the kings of the world.

But the saints of this last church VOLUNTARILY and out of Love for Israel and the people in the church went into the great tribulation Chosen of God to stand in the Gap  Please, show us the scripture where you derive this theory from.

They stand in the Gap  How does this line up with God's word that tells us the saints will be overcome?

You cannot receive this because your scribes have dictated to you exactly how the unfolding is going to occur  Perhaps we don't receive it because we cannot find it in scripture!

Iamlamad, cannot receive this because he is so caught up in his exclusion  Sorry, you miss it again: our journey into Acts 1 and 2 was a side journey for your benefit. It has nothing to do with our discussions on Revelation. By the way, teach TRUTH, proven by scripture, and you may find both RM and myself will believe you!

I Just see the saints as the overcomers willingly entering into the GT  It is human imagination unless you can prove it with scripture.

that is too much for your cult of textualism to explain.  So...sticking close to scripture is wrong? Why do you write such nonsense? Does this make YOU feel better?

We are all Laodiceans  We are NOT. This is human imagination again, not rightly understanding the purpose of the 7 churches.  If this were true, no one would be rapture ready.

[dhchristian]

Just now, Revelation Man said:

The Harlot of Rev. 12 is ALL FALSE RELIGION.

I Am not saying the Harlot is not false religion, I am saying a significant part of her will be false "Christian" religion, and that is not exclusive to the RCC, though many I am sure will be of the RCC as well. She is the Mother of Harlots. The religion of Semiramis in disguise as Christianity. Many of your New Age religions fall into this category as well. As Do Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and what not. A significant element of Christianity will never get it, and become fully apostate. Just Like Israel was given a chance to receive Jesus as their messiah even after killing Jesus (To the Jew first and then to the gentile) so too will what is left of the church, and the saints will ensure that they have that opportunity in the Wilderness. Of the 2.3 Billion "Christians" in the World, I would say no more than 10% will be either raptured, and or killed by the beast of Rev. 13 or repent during that first half of the final week while in the wilderness. If By grace it is more, praise God, But that still leaves More Christians than any other religion in the World to go full blown into harlotry. 

 

4 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I at times take you serious, but the problem is you like to skip the points that you can't overcome.

I Have a message that I want to get out, whether or not it is received is not my concern. Debating about details is not conducive to getting that message I have been given out. Forgive me if this Bothers you. My message is simple, we are all Laodiceans, and we must take that message to heart if we are to overcome in this Laodicean Age. This is not a choice, or a doctrine or anything like that it has to do with the unity of the Spirit. The false Unity is already at Work, and it is time for the True church of the Living God to rise up and do its end time work. Each has a different role, but we are one body with Christ as the head. I learned a long time ago to say "Lord thou knowest" when it comes to the exact order of events. So long as these issues are dividing us, then there is immaturity and an inability to digest the meat of His Word. (Read 1 cor. 3) We all have a little bit of the whole picture. But not the whole picture of end times, and until we all realize this Unity and truth will not be understood, and we will endlessly bicker about who is right and who is wrong. It is not about me being right, but us getting it right... This is the second part of my ministry and calling the first being "can the teacher be taught". Don't ask me why he gave me those catch phrases, But perhaps to help us Keep it Simple Stupid (KISS).

I read all your comments, But choose not to comment on every detail sometimes because I agree, other times because they are not significant to message I have been given. I Just do not have that kind of free time to answer every point made. Believe me I wish I did, But I have my "tentmaker" duties to carry out.

28 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Don't get offended because I challenge you brother. We are to sharpen each other

 I Am not offended, Nor am I easily offended, But I will call people out when they are being rude or obnoxious, or condescending.

For definitions sake, the church is not the harlot (Happy?) But what is left of her becomes the Harlot. Do You understand this? The True church is NOT what is defined on demographic studies by the Pew institute but rather a significantly smaller minority who are truly Born again. The Gates of hell shall not prevail against the True church. Much of what is called church today does not preach the new birth and repentance anymore, the True church does.

God bless. 

 

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, dhchristian said:

You are wrong in saying that someone who has not spoken in tongues is not anointed. Some of the Most anointed men and woman I know have never spoken in tongues. Tongues is used as a tool of manipulation Hence the links I posted to you. It is used to Build the leader or the church member onto a pedestal as better than the rest. Jesus was quite clear about lording over people like this. It is a shame you do not see the error in your attitude. You ignore outright what Jesus Told the Apostles about this....

24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. 25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.  (Matt. 20:24-28)

And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, 39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: 40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation. (Mark 12;38-40)

7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them, 8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him; 9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. 10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. 11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Who else in Scripture exalts himself? That is who you are siding with. Tongues is gift used in outreach. Notice how it is tied to the great commission.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17)

Notice in Acts 2, they spoke in tongues that people from other nations could understand.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

It was not Gibberish, But other languages for the furtherance of the Gospel.

In acts 10, The gift of tongues was given to the Gentiles as well, and this marked the beginning of the time of the Gentiles. 

In Act's 19, these People were still under the Baptism of John, and then they spoke in tongues. 

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 

Do you see it now? Tongues is a tool of furthering the Gospel. When it fell on the early Jewish church They spoke in the tongues of other men. When it fell on the gentiles they spoke in the tongues of other nations when it fell on this group that had only known the Baptism of John They spoke in other tongues for their region. 

Do You remember the Story Simon in Acts 8?

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

This in effect is what the men you hold in such High esteem are doing. This is the Word faith movement in a nutshell. This whole tongues thing is a something new and there have been many anointed preachers who have not spoken in tongues throughout the centuries. Using a minor gift of the spirit as a sign of anointing is extra-biblical and a modern invention of the Laodicean church age. A test that would exclude those who are genuinely anointed and Gifted with the Greater gifts, and called and sent of God. You can argue till your blue in the face and I still will not concede to these heresies that exalt men. For he that exalteth himself shall be Abased... That is what is coming for you, and all those who have placed themselves on a Podium of Pride, and are ruling over the Laity, as the name the "nicolaitans" means. You are of the Harlot. 

Here are just a few quotes from this comment of you exalting yourself...

 

 

 

These are just a few examples of your condescending attitude. Paul writes Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (I Cor 13:1) That is what you are right now, for your heart is not right with God and you have no charity. Instead you use tongues as a means to belittle any who do not have or need this gift. In essence you are exalting yourself to the point that you no longer have empathy which is the point of Narcissism. Such is the danger that all shepherds must face and contend with in their own lives, Placing themselves on such a podium that they can no longer hear nor see their own lack of charity. 

I will close with What A.W. Tozer wrote on Tongues.

"Why is it that we do not cast our lot in with the tongues movement because they believe this? Well now, I have known and studied these dear brethren. I've preached to them for a long, long time and I've studied them; and I know them pretty well, and I'm very sympathetic with them, and I love them in all love and charity, I'd like to say there are some good sweet Christians among them. And I happen to know some dear, beloved, sweet Christians that are in this movement. Also, there are some churches that are very sane, beautiful, godly and good, but a number of things that I want to name have characterized the movement itself.
I do not want to hurt anybody's feelings; and if you think this is not true, then you can call me up, come to see me, bring your proof. If it's true, and as Christians and members of the body of Christ, we've all got to smile and say thank God for the truth no matter whether it hurts or not. The movement itself has done this. It has magnified one single gift above all others and that one gift, as Paul said, was the least. Now, that does not cause me to have great confidence in the movement that would do that. Then there is an unscriptural exhibition of that gift, which incidentally began in the United States about 1904."

Now, was A.W. Tozer not anointed? Were all His works were written without the Holy Ghost Baptism? Were all his sermons unanointed teachings? How about all those people he mentored? Were they unanointed as well? Was Leonard Ravenhill unanointed? He called the Pentecostal doctrine of Obligatory tongues "junk theology". Yet Both of these men still speak to millions of Christians Today full of the Holy Ghost. My Point is, Do Not let anyone exclude you, and or disqualify you for not speaking in tongues, this is a Bogus claim to exalt those men who do... and some of them do so, not empowered by the Holy Spirit, but by another spirit.  

God anoints everyone to the extent He can, if they choose to ignore Acts 1 and 2. OF COURSE people are anointed without tongues. The question is, would there level of anointing be greater if they believed Luke in Acts and asked for what the early church got?  By the way, I have never said you had no anointing. All I have said is, have you ever received what the early church received? Or did you say, God, I want the Holy Spirit  - but hold the tongues? What did the anointing they got do to change them? Do you see in your church what the early church saw?

I have never been condescending: I have asked over and over if you have received the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit that the early church did? I have backed up everything I have written with scripture.

Tongues is used as a tool of manipulation  No, tongues is for edification, building us up on our most holy faith.  You can't see it now, but your whole theory on tongues is just not from scripture at all. There are verses in the bible that you cannot follow, unless you pray in tongues. It is TRUTH.

It is used to Build the  leader or the church member onto a pedestal as better than the rest In all my years I have never seen such a thing. What I have seen is non-pentecostal people's lack of understanding of 1 Cor.  14. I have seen people, when faced with scriptures on tongues, act like they are being put down, when nothing could be future from the truth.  Here is TRUTH: tongues is a gift from God that you so far have rejected. Why would ANYONE want to reject a gift from God? Pride perhaps?

lording over people  Am I doing this when I point you to a scripture and ask if you are following it?  I think you are totally missing the point. Are you feeling picked on? We are brothers in Christ! I am only trying to strengthen your walk with Christ.

they shall speak with new tongues  Do you imagine that these tongues, the tongues in Acts 2, and the tongues Paul was talking about in 1 Cor. 14 are all DIFFERENT? If so, you are mistaken: tongues are tongues and every verse mentioning tongues is talking about what Paul outlined in chapter 14. I still say you just don't believe Paul.  Why? I can only guess because what Paul wrote does not match your preconceptions.  Case in point? Paul said anyone speaking in tongues is speaking to GOD, because no man understands!  I know: you have assumbed that in Acts 2, they SPOKE in all those languages. God back and read it: it says every man HEARD in their language. the miracle here was on the hearing side. They were speaking "gibberish" as some put it, just like all tongues. Since tongues are talking to God - for NO MAN UNDERSTANDS - it is for our prayer life. It is the only way we can pray perfect prayers. Imagine, God the Holy Spirit creating a prayer, using your tongue and your authority on earth, and then God the fathering answering: what could be more powerful - YOU between two members of the Godhead! However, it seems you have chosen to reject God's free gift. I wonder why?

Notice in Acts 2, they spoke in tongues that people from other nations could understand.  You must be more precise in your reading. What it says is, they HEARD in their own language. You KNOW they were talking in tongues; it is writtten. Well, Paul wrote that when anyone talks in tongues, they are talking to GOD - because no man understands. In truth, they were speaking gibberish, but God caused the people to HEAR in their own language.

It was not Gibberish, But other languages  It HAD to be gibberish according to Paul. Do you think Paul missed it?  He wrote that NO MAN UNDERSTANDS. Here in acts 2 God added a miracle of HEARING.  Remember, if forming doctrine, we must take ALL scripture on a subject; not just pick one that fits some preconceived theory.

In Act's 19, these People were still under the Baptism of John, and then they spoke in tongues.   It seems, every time people received this baptism in the Holy Spirit in acts, they spoke in tongues. Usually it came with the laying on of hands. And in every case it was ALL PRESENT.  People want to use human reasoning and try to come up with some reason why they themselves don't have to receive. I know: I used to do it.

Tongues is a tool of furthering the Gospel.   This is a myth of those who have never spoken in tongues. It is not -  according to Paul. He wrote that tongues is talking to God for NO MAN UNDERSTANDS. In other words, tongues are PRAYER. And because "no man understands" it always sounds like gibberish - UNLESS God adds supernatural hearing.

They spoke in the tongues of other men.  This CANNOT be proven by scripture. It can be disproven. God back and look: Luke did not say they spoke in these languages - he does say people HEARD in those languages. Paul said tongues is talking to God, not to man. I think Paul knew what He was talking about!

they spoke in the tongues of other nations   You cannot prove this with scripture. Paul denies it as truth.

This in effect is what the men you hold in such High esteem are doing. This is the Word faith movement in a nutshell.  Shame on you. Chances are good you know NOTHING of these men. I would guess you have never heard any of them speak or examined their fruit.

Using a minor gift of the spirit as a sign of anointing is extra-biblical   " how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. "

The anointing is the very same UNCHANGEABLE Holy Spirit that came upon Jesus. He is still available to anointing anyone who wants Him today.  Note that healing follows the anointing, just as is written in Mark 16.

You are of the Harlot.   Shame on you! The same blood has saved me that saved you. I am your brother in Christ. You are trying to teach what you know nothing about -  but are making believe you are right.  The scriptures have found out the truth!

your heart is not right with God  Shame on you! Just as you said, you know NOTHING about me. Why would you say such a thing?

In essence you are exalting yourself  I have done no such thing. Perhaps you feel this way bacause I bring up scriptures that you don't believe.

they can no longer hear nor see  What I see and hear from you is that you don't believe the bible on this issue. Paul said NO MAN UNDERSTANDS.  You don't believe Paul.

Tozer: It has magnified one single gift above all others  Again you are seeking advice from someone who has never spoken in tongues! Tozer did not understand the :"gift of tongues" as shown in 1 Cor. 12 is a completely different aspect of tongues. Here it is PEOPLE who are used by God in the church. Here in chapter 12 it has nothing to do with our prayer life. Here it is compared to all the other supernatural gifts which God sends to bless local bodies.  Not all are prophets (PEOPLE) Not all are pastors either. Not all are teachers. And not all people are gifted to give a message in tongues to be interpreted to bless a local body. Does any of this sound ANYTHING like prayer to God? No, it does not, because here Paul is talking about PEOPLE who have gifts of the spirit flowing through them to bless others.

TOZER: Then there is an unscriptural exhibition of that gift, which incidentally began in the United States about 1904."  DH, can you explain why he would say such a silly thing? He did not explain. What was "unscriptural?" I think he said this because He himself did not understand those scriptures!

DH, there are many great preachers today that have bypassed Acts 1 and 2. They are doing good works. My only question to them would be, why would you want to reject a gift from God meant to bless you in ways you can't even understand?

I know of men who got the left foot of fellowship out of churches because they began praying in tongues. they went on to pastor even bigger churches.

Question: tongues are in the bible. Why  then are you fighting so hard against them?

[iamlamad]

43 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

I Am not saying the Harlot is not false religion, I am saying a significant part of her will be false "Christian" religion, and that is not exclusive to the RCC, though many I am sure will be of the RCC as well. She is the Mother of Harlots. The religion of Semiramis in disguise as Christianity. Many of your New Age religions fall into this category as well. As Do Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and what not. A significant element of Christianity will never get it, and become fully apostate. Just Like Israel was given a chance to receive Jesus as their messiah even after killing Jesus (To the Jew first and then to the gentile) so too will what is left of the church, and the saints will ensure that they have that opportunity in the Wilderness. Of the 2.3 Billion "Christians" in the World, I would say no more than 10% will be either raptured, and or killed by the beast of Rev. 13 or repent during that first half of the final week while in the wilderness. If By grace it is more, praise God, But that still leaves More Christians than any other religion in the World to go full blown into harlotry. 

 

I Have a message that I want to get out, whether or not it is received is not my concern. Debating about details is not conducive to getting that message I have been given out. Forgive me if this Bothers you. My message is simple, we are all Laodiceans, and we must take that message to heart if we are to overcome in this Laodicean Age. This is not a choice, or a doctrine or anything like that it has to do with the unity of the Spirit. The false Unity is already at Work, and it is time for the True church of the Living God to rise up and do its end time work. Each has a different role, but we are one body with Christ as the head. I learned a long time ago to say "Lord thou knowest" when it comes to the exact order of events. So long as these issues are dividing us, then there is immaturity and an inability to digest the meat of His Word. (Read 1 cor. 3) We all have a little bit of the whole picture. But not the whole picture of end times, and until we all realize this Unity and truth will not be understood, and we will endlessly bicker about who is right and who is wrong. It is not about me being right, but us getting it right... This is the second part of my ministry and calling the first being "can the teacher be taught". Don't ask me why he gave me those catch phrases, But perhaps to help us Keep it Simple Stupid (KISS).

I read all your comments, But choose not to comment on every detail sometimes because I agree, other times because they are not significant to message I have been given. I Just do not have that kind of free time to answer every point made. Believe me I wish I did, But I have my "tentmaker" duties to carry out.

 I Am not offended, Nor am I easily offended, But I will call people out when they are being rude or obnoxious, or condescending.

For definitions sake, the church is not the harlot (Happy?) But what is left of her becomes the Harlot. Do You understand this? The True church is NOT what is defined on demographic studies by the Pew institute but rather a significantly smaller minority who are truly Born again. The Gates of hell shall not prevail against the True church. Much of what is called church today does not preach the new birth and repentance anymore, the True church does.

God bless.

a significantly smaller minority who are truly Born again   FINALLY! Hallelujah! Something I can agree with. Yes, OF COURSE the truth church is ONLY those born again.

the saints will ensure that they have that opportunity in the Wilderness.  Please explain this.

More Christians than any other religion in the World to go full blown into harlotry.   What makes you SO SURE they go into harlotry? Why not they get SERIOUS with God and get born again?

Surely you have read the scriptures: ALL PEOPLE whose names are not written in the book of life will be deceived! It is written: you must believe it! Are most Muslims written in the book of Life? Not a chance; only a VERY small percentage of them will learn about Jesus and accept Him as savior. Same with Hindus and Buddhists. That means MOST of those who take the mark will be those from false religions or no religion.

repent during that first half of the final week while in the wilderness.  Again please explain what you mean here by wilderness.

we are all Laodiceans,   I disagree. I don't think this was God's intent. there have been Laodiceans in every age of the church.  Rather, we are all members of the church of the firstborn, made Kings and Priests until God. Why do you sell the true church short? NO ONE truly born again is a Laodicean.

[dhchristian]

4 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Why would you write such a thing?  Even if we were resisting something, we could repent! We three all were born again by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and by our faith in His shed blood.  I think we all HAVE this truth.  What this seems like is you rising up in pride saying I HAVE THE TRUTH, and you don't.  Do you imagine RM and I have not been to the cross? Why would you assume such a thing?

Iamlamad,

I say this often, so don't take offense, But your fruit is showing... The way you act condescendingly towards those who have not spoken in tongues is ridiculous, so do not try to turn that around and blame me. 

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

According to the above, NOT ALL who are "in Christ" will be raptured.

How about the lukewarm? Are they even born again and so "in Christ?"  Perhaps SOME of them, perhaps none of them. What say you?

There are millions of "Christians" who love God but attend churches that fail to teach people that they must be born again.  I could name denominations but I won't. People who call themselves "Christian" but are not born again will be left behind.

Are we in agreement here so far?

We agree here.

 

11 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Then there is the parable of the ten virgins. All had oil, but some ran out. Is this parable about the rapture? I think it is. Jesus said, "I don't know you." He did NOT say that He never knew them. I suspect there are believers who were born again at one time but just never made any attempt to live for God or fellowship with Him. He can honestly say that He does not know them because they never come to him in prayer. Agree or not?

Here is where I disagree. The Luke warm are living in Partial unbelief. Just like Israel after the exodus had to remain in the wilderness for 40 years, so too will the church for 42 months, a large portion thereof... again I do not disqualify a pre-trib rapture of the Bride, But not all are the Bride.

Those who are truly Born again Have eternal security. The problem is not everyone who is a believer is born again.

This is the problem with all the numbers of converts you speak about from these Charismatic preachers. They are not  preaching the New Birth and repentance instead they are preaching signs and wonders. "Because I have spoken in tongues I have need of nothing..." is what they will say, But they never Knew Him, Jesus. They never opened the door to Jesus. their faith is in their works and not in the finished work of Christ on the cross. They require signs to believe, rather than true faith that comes not by sight. Do You see the difference? This should be a wake up call to anyone who is in these churches, they are living in partial belief/Unbelief, and therefore are Lukewarm.

It is not that I despise the charismatics, they are what is the Laodicean church. I As a fundamentalist, was told all my life we were Philadelphians till the LORD showed me otherwise. We are all Laodiceans now. The question is not what you are, but what are you doing about it. The solution is found in that letter to Laodicea for this age, But you have to heed those words, You have say LORD I am wretched pitiable poor  blind and naked, I need You. Until then you will continue to live in Partial unbelief. What kind of New birth is that if you do not have assurance?

39 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The Woman church, That goes into the wilderness   Who are these? Are you using scripture or human reasoning? Jesus said those in JUDEA would flee. My friend, these would be JEWS and HEBREWS, not "the church." 

There are two woman in rev. 12 that go into the wilderness. The Jews who flee from Judea, and the "church" who goes on wings of eagles. The saints stand in the Gap and allow this to happen. That is who the eagles wings are. Did You not get this the first time we discussed these things?

42 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

the church that has fallen into harlotry  Remember when Elijah said he was the only one, and was corrected  - being told there were 7000?  There are MILLIONS and MILLIONS of believers today who are true to God and rapture ready. Surely you believe this!

I agree with this. 10% of 2.3 billion is about 230million... correct?

 

44 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The Woman church, That goes into the wilderness will eventually emerge atop the beast   Where on earth do you get this stuff? It will be Jews and Hebrews from Judea that flee into the wilderness and they will be protected from harm and will be with Jesus during His millennial reign! This is what scripture tells us.

Go Back up two paragraphs.to where I asked di you not get this the first time we discussed things?

46 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

But the saints of this last church VOLUNTARILY and out of Love for Israel and the people in the church went into the great tribulation Chosen of God to stand in the Gap  Please, show us the scripture where you derive this theory from.

Because that is the nature of the saints, been like that since the Word saint was first used speaking of Aaron. He stood in the Gap between a Holy god and the People of Israel. We are to become a Holy Priesthood, are we not? Do some research on this.

49 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

They stand in the Gap  How does this line up with God's word that tells us the saints will be overcome?

Rev. 12:11

50 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You cannot receive this because your scribes have dictated to you exactly how the unfolding is going to occur  Perhaps we don't receive it because we cannot find it in scripture!

 Again, we went over this when I first got here about preconceived teachings of the end times, vs the revelation of the Mysteries of God for these end times. To have a timeline set in stone before all that is sealed is unsealed is a mistake. The Bible tells us to test the spirits to see if they are of God that come with this revelation, which I asked that you do only to have you do your test of Tongues on me, which is not a test of the spirits, but a sign of God's extension of the Gospel to the nations.

55 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Iamlamad, cannot receive this because he is so caught up in his exclusion  Sorry, you miss it again: our journey into Acts 1 and 2 was a side journey for your benefit. It has nothing to do with our discussions on Revelation. By the way, teach TRUTH, proven by scripture, and you may find both RM and myself will believe you!

 What have I said that has violated scripture? Just because it does not fit your eschatology does not mean it is anti biblical. In the essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty. Eschatology is a non essential. Speaking in tongues is a non essential. These things do not include nor exclude one from the Kingdom of God. 

58 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I Just see the saints as the overcomers willingly entering into the GT  It is human imagination unless you can prove it with scripture.

that is too much for your cult of textualism to explain.  So...sticking close to scripture is wrong? Why do you write such nonsense? Does this make YOU feel better?

We are all Laodiceans  We are NOT. This is human imagination again, not rightly understanding the purpose of the 7 churches.  If this were true, no one would be rapture ready.

You are free to continue in your denial that you are rich and in need of nothing, But Know that it is just that denial of a problem, and namely that is living in partial unbelief. 

[dhchristian]

8 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

God anoints everyone to the extent He can, if they choose to ignore Acts 1 and 2. OF COURSE people are anointed without tongues. The question is, would there level of anointing be greater if they believed Luke in Acts and asked for what the early church got?  By the way, I have never said you had no anointing. All I have said is, have you ever received what the early church received? Or did you say, God, I want the Holy Spirit  - but hold the tongues? What did the anointing they got do to change them? Do you see in your church what the early church saw?

I have never been condescending: I have asked over and over if you have received the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit that the early church did? I have backed up everything I have written with scripture.

Tongues, by Paul is one of the lesser gifts of the Spirit. Number two, it is divine gift divided amongst the faithful as He will...

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1 Cor 12:11

What this means is that not all are given this gift, Only some are. He lists all the gifts in the previous verses. Using this one gift as a exclusionary doctrine as the charismatics have done is to exclude a large majority of Christians as unanointed just as you have done here. Need I go through all of your condescending remarks regarding this. That was Tozer's point in all of this as well. 

39 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Tongues is used as a tool of manipulation  No, tongues is for edification, building us up on our most holy faith.  You can't see it now, but your whole theory on tongues is just not from scripture at all. There are verses in the bible that you cannot follow, unless you pray in tongues. It is TRUTH.

Wrong, You yourself are using it as a tool of manipulation to elevate yourself on a pedestal for having spoken tongues, and thereby excluding others. Do I need to requote all your condescending comments again?

 

41 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It is used to Build the  leader or the church member onto a pedestal as better than the rest In all my years I have never seen such a thing. What I have seen is non-pentecostal people's lack of understanding of 1 Cor.  14. I have seen people, when faced with scriptures on tongues, act like they are being put down, when nothing could be future from the truth.  Here is TRUTH: tongues is a gift from God that you so far have rejected. Why would ANYONE want to reject a gift from God? Pride perhaps?

I Have not rejected the gift of tongues, I am merely pointing out that it is being used for personal gain and fame, which is similar to Balaam's error. Balaam had the gift of Prophecy but used it for his personal gain. Tongues is tool of outreach, Many missionaries have used this gift to preach the Gospel in foreign lands and I do not deny this gift in the least. I deny its use as a doctrinal sign of being anointed by the Holy Ghost.

46 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

they spoke in the tongues of other nations   You cannot prove this with scripture.

Its right there in acts 2, and he lists the languages they spoke...

 

47 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

In essence you are exalting yourself  I have done no such thing. Perhaps you feel this way bacause I bring up scriptures that you don't believe.

You have been continually doing this here with your condescending tone, you then proceed to belittle A.W. Tozer a true man of God with the gift of teaching that few have had, One who was not taught in a seminary, but taught by the Holy Ghost, a true Saint of God. This shows how highly you view yourself. Tozer was trying to say in a charitable way, what Ravenhill said in a stern way, It is "junk theology" 

 

[dhchristian]

45 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

a significantly smaller minority who are truly Born again   FINALLY! Hallelujah! Something I can agree with. Yes, OF COURSE the truth church is ONLY those born again.

Amazing how little you remember from our earlier conversations. Last time I said this to you, you disagreed with me, going off on the billions of Christians there are world wide.

 

47 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

the saints will ensure that they have that opportunity in the Wilderness.  Please explain this.

 Wings of Eagles... 

 

48 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

More Christians than any other religion in the World to go full blown into harlotry.   What makes you SO SURE they go into harlotry? Why not they get SERIOUS with God and get born again?

"Christians" 2.3 billion of the world population. Assuming 10% get it, That leaves 2.07billion that don't. Assuming 20 Percent, and what remains is still bigger  than the total number of Muslims worldwide at 1.8 billion. 20% is pushing it.

 

53 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

repent during that first half of the final week while in the wilderness.  Again please explain what you mean here by wilderness.

Being in the wilderness is much more than just going for a hike in the desert. It is a time of trial and testing and learning trust in the providence of God. Israel, despite seeing all the signs and wonders could not bring themselves to Trust in God's ability to overcome the Giants in the promised land, they were forced to roam the wilderness for 40 years learning how to Trust God. The Church living in Partial unbelief is the same way. This is the purpose of the Wilderness. Those who are saints in that time have already gone through the wilderness in their walk with God. That is Part of being chosen by Lot. That is why the saints cannot be just the half steppers of this last church age.

 

59 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

we are all Laodiceans,   I disagree. I don't think this was God's intent. there have been Laodiceans in every age of the church.  Rather, we are all members of the church of the firstborn, made Kings and Priests until God. Why do you sell the true church short? NO ONE truly born again is a Laodicean.

You are part of it, you are just blind to it. We are all Part of it, and I suggest you take this assessment to heart, as that is the ONLY reason why I am bothering to comment to you, because like you I once was on that same pedestal you are on, till the Lord Knocked me down.

God Bless.