Alternative Timeline? Comparing the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments

[dhchristian]

6 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Your masterpiece is showing.  If anything it is the Pentecostals  that are on the cutting edge of what the Holy Spirit is doing today.  Evangelism on the front lines today is mostly done by Pentecostals. How could anyone get this so wrong? Could it be just a lack of understanding? Deception can be SO VERY deceptive!

If anything your pride and holier than thou attitude is showing... Pentecostals are on the frontlines... the front lines of Apostacy. Self deception is the worst form of deception.... Get off your podium of pride. 

For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

G175 akarpos metaph. without fruit, barren, not yielding what it ought to yield

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. ^G175

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful ^G175 works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful. ^G175

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful ^G175 in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, ^G175 twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

I have made my case against your teaching here, It is faulty, and rips passages out of context. Your actions and attitude are unfruitful.  You are free to believe what you want, But your attitude shows your character. It is a shame that you know so much, but you know so little about what God seeks in the hearts of his servants. 

Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer. (Psalm 101:5)

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. (Gal. 5 22-26)

Vainglory: inordinate pride in oneself or one's achievements; excessive vanity.

 

[Montana Marv]

Tongues was used at Pentecost because other languages were present. Speaking the Gospel to those who couldn't speak Hebrew.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, dhchristian said:

If anything your pride and holier than thou attitude is showing... Pentecostals are on the frontlines... the front lines of Apostacy. Self deception is the worst form of deception.... Get off your podium of pride. 

For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

G175 akarpos metaph. without fruit, barren, not yielding what it ought to yield

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. ^G175

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful ^G175 works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful. ^G175

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful ^G175 in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, ^G175 twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

I have made my case against your teaching here, It is faulty, and rips passages out of context. Your actions and attitude are unfruitful.  You are free to believe what you want, But your attitude shows your character. It is a shame that you know so much, but you know so little about what God seeks in the hearts of his servants. 

Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer. (Psalm 101:5)

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. (Gal. 5 22-26)

Vainglory: inordinate pride in oneself or one's achievements; excessive vanity.

 

For many years there was one man that preached face to face with more people than any other. That was T.L. Osborn.  I suspect he has been replaced by Reinhard Bonnke. In his day T.L. had HUGE crowds, in around 90 nations. Reinhard Bonnke had even larger crowds. These two were on the cutting edge of what God was doing to advance His church.  Please keep in mind, we are not competing against each other! BIlly Graham had his day; Billy Sunday before Him. I would guess in his day, John Wesley was on the cutting edge of the front lines of evangelism. My point is, today it is mostly Pentecostal believers on the front lines. In 1975 the first class at Rhema graduated. One man went to the Philippines. It was not too long before he had the largest congregation in the entire islands. Another man went to South Africa, and again, after a while he had the largest congregation in all of Africa. (It is not today.) Another man went to Norway area and has started hundreds of churches. These are Pentecostal people.

front lines of Apostasy  Give us some examples are hold your peace. I guess your meaning is, front lines of" falling away from the truth." I can assure you, this phenomenon is in every denomination! Pentecostals are no more on the front line here than any other group. Why do you hold such a hatred for Pentecostals?  Oh, never mind, I already know: because of a masterpiece of deception concerning Pentecost in the bible.

Get off your podium of pride.  Why is it, when anyone teaches the uncompromised truth, they are "in pride?" Is it because the truth hurts? I guess it is true, some people cannot handle the truth.

G175 akarpos metaph. without fruit, barren, not yielding what it ought to yield  IN CONTEXT when the human spirit is praying, the mind does not understand. And that is the way God designed it. Someone may think they are praying for their new Cadillac, but in reality they are praying to stop beating their wife! If they KNEW what they were praying, they would quit. God was very wise here! Why is this so difficult? If your spirit man is praying what the Holy Spirit has given him to pray, WHY RESIST HIM? It is plain, you don't LIKE His free tongues.

I have made my case against your teaching here,  Your case is faulty and proves what I have been saying, the devil creates a MASTERPIECE Of deception concerning why people don't pray in tongues. Please, allow me to prepare you: chances are very good, unless you change your thinking here, that the first thing Jesus says to you will be, "Why didn't you receive my baptism in the Holy Spirit? Why did you resist so to speak in tongues?"  Write it down, and we will compare notes later.

rips passages out of context.  This is always the excuse when people resist the truth of God's word. By the way, Tongues IS the context of chapter 14.

. Your actions and attitude are unfruitful.  Not even the best evangelist gets everyone saved.  Some are real hard cases.

I will always ask you the same question: did you receive exactly what the early church received?

[dhchristian]

Your faith in numbers astonishes me. God chose 300 of Gideon's men, the one's who lapped water. When David numbered Israel God gave him a choice of three plagues for the people for His sin. 2 Sam. 24. Elijah thought he was the only one, But the Lord had spared a remnant. All of these cases are ones that had faith, or lack of faith in numbers. God Looks at the heart, and faith not at numbers. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matt. 7:14)

27 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

front lines of Apostasy  Give us some examples are hold your peace. I guess your meaning is, front lines of" falling away from the truth." I can assure you, this phenomenon is in every denomination! Pentecostals are no more on the front line here than any other group. Why do you hold such a hatred for Pentecostals?  Oh, never mind, I already know: because of a masterpiece of deception concerning Pentecost in the bible.

I Do not hate Pentecostals, nor do i condemn anyone that speaks in tongues. You keep saying this, and I keep correcting you. Because I am pointing out errors, and doing what scriptures says to reprove and rebuke you say I hate them. They are on the frontlines of Apostacy, because of these errors. I do not know if you read any of my other comments here, but I am the same with most whose faith is unfounded. The fact that you cannot see these error and are defensive about them proves that you yourself are guilty of these errors. Take some time and step away and pray the Prayer in Psalm 139:23-24 so that  God will grant you eyes to see.

32 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

rips passages out of context.  This is always the excuse when people resist the truth of God's word. By the way, Tongues IS the context of chapter 14.

No,Edification is the context of 1 Cor. 14. You have read into the text what is not there.

 

33 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

did you receive exactly what the early church received?

Yes, And I have the assurance of it... I could not do what he has given me to do, but by His Spirit in me.

 

35 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It is plain, you don't LIKE His free tongues.

The Gifts the Spirit gives are not a choice. He Gives them as He Wills. Until you understand this you are in grievous error. Tongues is the least of the gifts, Praise God he gave it to you, But do not despise those who have received diverse gifts from you.

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; (Eph. 4;14) 

You malign the fruit of the Spirit of meekness, and then claim to be a teacher of which this fruit of the spirit is required... Think about that...In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; (2 Tim 2:25a)

As I said, take a step back before you commit greater sins and errors that you will later regret.

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Your faith in numbers astonishes me. God chose 300 of Gideon's men, the one's who lapped water. When David numbered Israel God gave him a choice of three plagues for the people for His sin. 2 Sam. 24. Elijah thought he was the only one, But the Lord had spared a remnant. All of these cases are ones that had faith, or lack of faith in numbers. God Looks at the heart, and faith not at numbers. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matt. 7:14)

I Do not hate Pentecostals, nor do i condemn anyone that speaks in tongues. You keep saying this, and I keep correcting you. Because I am pointing out errors, and doing what scriptures says to reprove and rebuke you say I hate them. They are on the frontlines of Apostacy, because of these errors. I do not know if you read any of my other comments here, but I am the same with most whose faith is unfounded. The fact that you cannot see these error and are defensive about them proves that you yourself are guilty of these errors. Take some time and step away and pray the Prayer in Psalm 139:23-24 so that  God will grant you eyes to see.

No,Edification is the context of 1 Cor. 14. You have read into the text what is not there.

 

Yes, And I have the assurance of it... I could not do what he has given me to do, but by His Spirit in me.

 

The Gifts the Spirit gives are not a choice. He Gives them as He Wills. Until you understand this you are in grievous error. Tongues is the least of the gifts, Praise God he gave it to you, But do not despise those who have received diverse gifts from you.

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; (Eph. 4;14) 

You malign the fruit of the Spirit of meekness, and then claim to be a teacher of which this fruit of the spirit is required... Think about that...In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; (2 Tim 2:25a)

As I said, take a step back before you commit greater sins and errors that you will later regret.

There is a prayer by Paul in Ephesians chapter 1 and another in chapter 3. There is yet a third prayer in Colossians chapter 1. I HIGHLY recommend you begin praying those prayers over yourself daily. I suspect in 6 months of doing this, you would not recognize yourself - you will have changed that much.

OK, if you insist that chapter 14 is about edification, they it is edification with tongues versus prophecy. Edify is mentioned 3 times. Tongue or tongues is mentioned 15 times.

"Hate" was the wrong word. I know you don't hate Pentecostals or charismatic churches. But you find no problem denigrating them - and that is only because of deception.

I am pointing out errors  You seem to pick on the errors of Pentecostals more than any other or almost exclusively.

They are on the frontlines of Apostacy, because of these errors.  This is the second or third time you have said this. Please, POINT OUT these errors and tell us WHY you think they are falling away. Explain why they are "leading the pack" so to speak.

whose faith is unfounded.  Explain.

Did you receive what they received: Yes, and I have the assurance of it  Then you can pray in tongues. Good. Because that is what THEY got as the bonus to receiving the Holy Spirit.

The fact that you cannot see these errors  Please point out these errors: LIST Them one by one. I suspect what you are calling an error is not. However, since you malign the current generation of those who pray in tongues, I doubt you here. if you got what they got then you would be siding with them, not against them.

The Gifts the Spirit gives are not a choice. He Gives them as He Wills. The masterpiece of your deception is showing. The "gift" in chapter 12 is "Charisma," while the tongues in chapter 14 is "glossa." You still confuse apples with oranges. Suppose there is a church like my first Assembly of God church: around 400 people who all pray in tongues: does God give "the gift of tongues" as in giving a message of tongues to be interpreted to edify the church -to every last member in that church?  OF COURSE NOT! God chooses who He will give that gift to. It is the same with Prophecy (supernatural speaking in one's own learned language). God does not call on every member of a local church to stand up and prophecy. Same with gifts of healing: God gives these gifts "SEVERALLY" as HE wills. Note carefully that every last one of these nine gifts of the spirit are for MINISTRY to others, not for personal benefit. What good would gifts of healing do if it was given to a hermit that lived alone? This entire chapter is about LOCAL bodies of believers and how God divides to each person one or more of these gifts. Each gift then is a PERSON that God uses that gift through. The gift of prophecy works through a PERSON. The gift of healing works through a PERSON.  The gift of interpreting requires a PERSON. EVERY ONE of these nine gifts requires PEOPLE. The gift of tongues here has NOTHING to do with personal prayer: it is to stand up in local meeting and give a MESSAGE in tongues to be interpreted so all can be EDIFIED.  I have done this many times as the Spirit led. Occasionally I have interpreted my own tongues.

On the other hand, COMPARE: Paul said one speaking in tongues is talking to GOD (oranges). Yet in chapter 12, he or she would be talking to the people for edification when it is interpreted (apples). In the first case, ALL can receive for it is God's gift to all who receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. In the second case, usually only one or two people in a local body are given tongues to be interpreted. Until you understand the difference between the "gift of tongues" to edify a church, and tongues as a prayer language, you are in deception and don't even know it.

Amazing: here you are, having never spoken in tongues, and never given one message in tongues to be interpreted - trying to teach. Yet if you needed open heart surgery, you would certain NOT choose a dentist. You would want someone who has done this operation successfully time and time again. Think about this!

Tongues is the least of the gifts,  Correction: tongues to be interpreted in a local body is the least of the gifts in the list of 9 gifts of the Spirit given to bless and edify local bodies of believers. Tongues as a prayer language is a different subject covered in a different chapter.

You have made it very clear to me (and to the Holy Spirit) that you reject His prayer language for you. You don't want it. You don't need it. But the whole truth is, you just don't understand it. You think praying things you can't understand is silly. What you don't get is that it is GOD praying for you and GOD answering that prayer: YOU, DH, caught between two members of the Godhead, both of them desireing to HELP YOU - but you don't like His plan and have rejected it - and worse yet, maligned it.

You don't get it: when Paul summarizes and tells us He will pray in the Spirit for a while: GOD the Holy Spirit creating his prayer and God the Father answering it (but Paul does not understand what he is praying because it is in tongues); then he will spend some time praying in Hebrew that he CAN understand. Then He will do both kinds of prayer SINGING.

Please, pray the prayers in Ephesians 1 and 3, then Col. chapter 1. They will do you a world of good.

[dhchristian]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

There is a prayer by Paul in Ephesians chapter 1 and another in chapter 3. There is yet a third prayer in Colossians chapter 1. I HIGHLY recommend you begin praying those prayers over yourself daily. I suspect in 6 months of doing this, you would not recognize yourself - you will have changed that much.

If You read my comments I point people to these prayers as well, The one in Eph 1:17-end of chapter is a powerful prayer, and is the basis of my calling and understanding of this being the Laodicean age, and that we need to make Jesus our all in all. I Have been praying these prayers for a long time. Ephesians like no other Epistle pertains to the end time church.

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

OK, if you insist that chapter 14 is about edification, they it is edification with tongues versus prophecy. Edify is mentioned 3 times. Tongue or tongues is mentioned 15 times.

The Whole book of 1 cor. is about correcting the errors of this church, that unity might be attained. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. (1 Cor 1;10)

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I am pointing out errors  You seem to pick on the errors of Pentecostals more than any other or almost exclusively.

That is because they are at the forefront of this Laodicean age, and are the church that defines it. 

 

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

They are on the frontlines of Apostacy, because of these errors.  This is the second or third time you have said this. Please, POINT OUT these errors and tell us WHY you think they are falling away. Explain why they are "leading the pack" so to speak.

 

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The fact that you cannot see these errors  Please point out these errors: LIST Them one by one. I suspect what you are calling an error is not. However, since you malign the current generation of those who pray in tongues, I doubt you here. if you got what they got then you would be siding with them, not against them.

This is about the fifth time I have answered you on this. 

1. They have limited the anointing of the Holy Ghost only to those who have the gift of Tongues manifest in them. By doing so they have become proud and exclude those who have not spoken in tongues.

2. In Doing so, they have neglected those who are given the gift of discernment and Prophecy, Wisdom and Knowledge, and in so doing have searched for the experience rather than the Truth, and any experience being welcome has opened the door to demonic spirits such as the Kundallinni spirit, that are not of God.

3. Their focus on experiences has led to a self deception that they are "rich and in need of nothing", because of these manifestations of tongues within them, and "spiritual experiences", As well as the wealth of this church materially as espoused by the prosperity preachers (Word faith). 

4. In doing this they have maligned the poor as lacking faith, and the saint in the wilderness as a sinner being punished. Instead they elevate the prosperous to the highest offices who further lead the church into the Love of Money, Which is the root of all evil, and further down the road of self deception.

It has gotten to the point now where preachers are dancing on stage on top of money, and saying that this from God, and preachers living the lifestyles of the rich and famous with mansions and private jets, and Yachts and what not. All they are doing is worshipping money which is the god they trust... And you are defending them. Shame on you!

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You have made it very clear to me (and to the Holy Spirit) that you reject His prayer language for you. You don't want it. You don't need it. But the whole truth is, you just don't understand it. You think praying things you can't understand is silly. What you don't get is that it is GOD praying for you and GOD answering that prayer: YOU, DH, caught between two members of the Godhead, both of them desireing to HELP YOU - but you don't like His plan and have rejected it - and worse yet, maligned it.

I am going to pray that God forgive you for this comment, for you have blasphemed the Holy ghost in saying this. You are doing so out of ignorance. I declare to You that "Jesus is the LORD" and yet you say the holy Ghost is not speaking through me. You do not know how I pray, or how much I pray, yet you are judging my prayer life...Shame on you!. I spend many nights in prayer, most nights only sleeping 4-5 hours falling asleep in prayer. The Holy Ghost Prays with me, through me and for me. When I work I pray when the opportunity is there, when I eat I pray, when I walk I pray, when I write these Posts, many times I am overcome with tears as I pray, for I know that the opposition I face is not directed towards me, but the Truth of God's Word. The tears are the burden I carry, a burden for the Laodicean church the end times church.

I Ask that you refrain from these sorts of arrogant judgments, for you will have to answer to God in heaven for them. There is  a word in the Greek, a word that does not have a good English translation, it is Choreo (G5562) The meaning is to receive, or make room for. the following verse uses this. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath ^G5562 ➔ no place ^G5562 in you. John 8:37

Take the time to read this passage completely and understand what Jesus is exposing here in these Pharisees, as this is the direction this discussion is headed, as you have failed to make room for the Words HE has given me to speak/write. This is why I am advising you to step back from this conversation, for you know not what you are doing.

Conversely, this word is also used in 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come ^G5562 to repentance.

The question for you to ponder is Are you going to have no place for repentance in your heart, or are you going to make room for repentance?

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. (rev. 3:19)

Good bye, and God Bless, Your soul depends on answering this question rightly. This is not about me being right but about us getting it right.  

 

 

[iamlamad]

36 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

If You read my comments I point people to these prayers as well, The one in Eph 1:17-end of chapter is a powerful prayer, and is the basis of my calling and understanding of this being the Laodicean age, and that we need to make Jesus our all in all. I Have been praying these prayers for a long time. Ephesians like no other Epistle pertains to the end time church.

The Whole book of 1 cor. is about correcting the errors of this church, that unity might be attained. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. (1 Cor 1;10)

That is because they are at the forefront of this Laodicean age, and are the church that defines it. 

 

 

This is about the fifth time I have answered you on this. 

1. They have limited the anointing of the Holy Ghost only to those who have the gift of Tongues manifest in them. By doing so they have become proud and exclude those who have not spoken in tongues.

2. In Doing so, they have neglected those who are given the gift of discernment and Prophecy, Wisdom and Knowledge, and in so doing have searched for the experience rather than the Truth, and any experience being welcome has opened the door to demonic spirits such as the Kundallinni spirit, that are not of God.

3. Their focus on experiences has led to a self deception that they are "rich and in need of nothing", because of these manifestations of tongues within them, and "spiritual experiences", As well as the wealth of this church materially as espoused by the prosperity preachers (Word faith). 

4. In doing this they have maligned the poor as lacking faith, and the saint in the wilderness as a sinner being punished. Instead they elevate the prosperous to the highest offices who further lead the church into the Love of Money, Which is the root of all evil, and further down the road of self deception.

It has gotten to the point now where preachers are dancing on stage on top of money, and saying that this from God, and preachers living the lifestyles of the rich and famous with mansions and private jets, and Yachts and what not. All they are doing is worshipping money which is the god they trust... And you are defending them. Shame on you!

I am going to pray that God forgive you for this comment, for you have blasphemed the Holy ghost in saying this. You are doing so out of ignorance. I declare to You that "Jesus is the LORD" and yet you say the holy Ghost is not speaking through me. You do not know how I pray, or how much I pray, yet you are judging my prayer life...Shame on you!. I spend many nights in prayer, most nights only sleeping 4-5 hours falling asleep in prayer. The Holy Ghost Prays with me, through me and for me. When I work I pray when the opportunity is there, when I eat I pray, when I walk I pray, when I write these Posts, many times I am overcome with tears as I pray, for I know that the opposition I face is not directed towards me, but the Truth of God's Word. The tears are the burden I carry, a burden for the Laodicean church the end times church.

I Ask that you refrain from these sorts of arrogant judgments, for you will have to answer to God in heaven for them. There is  a word in the Greek, a word that does not have a good English translation, it is Choreo (G5562) The meaning is to receive, or make room for. the following verse uses this. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath ^G5562 ➔ no place ^G5562 in you. John 8:37

Take the time to read this passage completely and understand what Jesus is exposing here in these Pharisees, as this is the direction this discussion is headed, as you have failed to make room for the Words HE has given me to speak/write. This is why I am advising you to step back from this conversation, for you know not what you are doing.

Conversely, this word is also used in 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come ^G5562 to repentance.

The question for you to ponder is Are you going to have no place for repentance in your heart, or are you going to make room for repentance?

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. (rev. 3:19)

Good bye, and God Bless, Your soul depends on answering this question rightly. This is not about me being right but about us getting it right. 

That is because they are at the forefront of this Laodicean age, and are the church that defines it.  I refuse to believe this unless it can be proven. I think you don't go to the churches I go to that are still on fire for God.

#1.  Not true; may be true for certain pastors. The #1 (in my opinion) preacher in the area of tongues has said over and over that "if ANY born again person asks for the Holy Spirit, God will certainly give it." The problem with this theory is that if they receive the Holy Spirit and refuse the tongues, they limit themselves: that cannot pray in the Holy Ghost and build themselves up on their faith. This is why, over the last 50 years, if people needed to be healed, they would go to a Pentecostal church rather than any other.  Why has this been true? Because the 9 gifts of the Spirit are seen FAR more frequently in Pentecostal churches.  Many Pentecostal preachers have taught that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is the doorway into the 9 gifts of the spirit.  Is it any wonder then that people that need healing find a Pentecostal church?  Is it possible to receive the anointing without receiving the mighty baptism in the Spirit?  That is what my pastor has said many times. But I say, do they get the same thing?  Do any gifts of the Spirit (9 of them) show up in their lives? I have never seen even the least of the gifts show up in their lives.

I want to give an example of a typical Holy Spirit filled preacher. My wife had been having an issue of blood for several years. We had been believing God for healing, and still were. There was a healing line, and the Holy Spirit was moving. I said to myself and to the Holy Spirit: "you know we are believing for healing, but if my wife needs to be in that prayer line, just have the preacher call it out." Instantly he was about  to lay hands on the next person in line, but stopped, turned his back to the healing line, and called out: "there is someone here with hemorrhaging; You need to be in this line!" It was instant; it was supernatural.  My wife did not hear what was said, nor had she known what I said to the Lord, but I told her to get in the line.  The preacher laid hands on hear and said to all: "there is a spirit of infirmity here." Then said that he would come back to her. He finished the healing line, then came back to her, shut off his mike, and told her HOW she had opened herself up to this spirit of infirmity. Then He prayed for her and the bleeding stopped - that day.  She never told me what had opened the door.

Now, COULD this happen in a Baptist church? It is possible, but very very improbable.   Why? Because the baptism in the Holy Spirit seems to be the doorway into the gifts of the Spirit.

Later in her life, she developed kidney disease. She refused dialysis. She got onto a hospice program. She did not have long to live. She had not felt like going to church and had not for a long time. But one Sunday she said she was going. As was usual for this preacher, as soon as he got to the pulpit, he listened to the Holy Spirit. He walked straight to my wife, got her hand in the air, and prayed for her.  Monday we went and had a kidney function test done, and it had gone from teens up to 50%! God was showing her that He was willing to heal her. But at this time she had read so many books on heaven she did not want to stay. But because of her 50% she was taken off the hospice! A few weeks later She went on to heaven. 

My first time to this church and to this preacher, he called me up front and gave a prophecy over me that fit my life perfectly. It greatly edified me. It was right on.  I could go on, story after story if miracles in this Pentecostal church. I gave you two personal stories.  I have seen these kinds of things over and over in different Pentecostal churches. I NEVER saw them in the Wesleyan church. I have attended other non-Pentecostal churches over the years. I have never seen any gifts of the spirit in those either. This is MY experience. I am not saying they have never happened - just I have never seen them. The one exception was in the 60's when the Holy Spirit went into the Catholic church and got many born again and filled with the Spirit. But then, when people are filled, they BECOME Pentecostal.

2.  the gift of discernment and Prophecy, Wisdom and Knowledge... My guess is you are naming things but have never seen the real in evidence. Show me a verse for your gift of discernment - IF you can find one.  Do you know what a "word of knowledge" is? It is supernaturally knowing something that there was no natural way to know.  It might be one word or several words. An example of the fake is when a fake prophet can tell how much changes is in someone's pocket, and do it accurately. They do this by familiar spirits.  But the real is for edification and blessings.  Many times when someone gives a prophecy, it will include a word of knowledge. Sometimes it is just ONE WORD given by the Holy Spirit to the human spirit. It is when someone suddenly knows something that they did not know the moment before. The preacher might say something like: "there is someone here who has had a hip replacement and are in pain." Katheryn Kuhlman had words of knowledge frequently.  Jack Coe had incredible words of knowledge.  God gave me a word of knowledge when he was teaching me about the midpoint being "marked" and I could also find the entire 70th week "marked." I suddenly knew something I did not know the moment before. The entire week would use the SAME MARKER.

A word of wisdom is similar, supernatural, and is about the future.  It might be something like:  "a traveling minister is going to show up at 4 o'clock Sunday afternoon. You are to let him speak, and take up an offering for him."  it is NOT natural wisdom. We don't know the future.  

I think you have a Kuṇḍalinī spirit mixed up with the Holy Spirit. Why would you denigrate your Pentecostal brothers like this? What have you seen with your own two eyes that would cause you to say this? If you went to a Pentecostal church service, HOW would you recognize this spirit you keep mentioning? Since you talk about it, you must know.

3.  Do you have a problem with wealth? God made His people wealthy: Abraham was very rich!  I know one very wealthy preacher. Years ago, before he was wealthy, he asked another preacher: "someone just gave me a new Mercedes car? What am I going to do with it?" The other preacher told him, the man gave it to you to DRIVE, so you will have to drive it - or knock the giver out of a blesssing.  One day another ministry gave him a nice, two engine plane. This same other preacher asked him, "how many places have you given away to other preachers? He and his wife counted them up and it was in the 20's: planes he had given away. It is a FACT: we cannot out-give God. Some preachers are wealthy today because they learned this long ago.  There is another side to this: some preachers get into greed. If they don't get out - it will destroy them. Perhaps this is what you are talking about. 

What in your mind would Pentecostal preachers be in need of?  Are you SURE they are self deceived? If so, about WHAT? Do you lump them all into one group and say this about the whole group? WHy are you so sure they are deceived?  They might think YOU are deceived.

In doing this they have maligned the poor as lacking faith.  I don't think I have ever heard such a thing! What I have heard over the years is, we don't NEED to be poor: Jesus became poor in our place so that we could become fully supplied, lacking nothing. It took me ten years of constant FAITH to finally knock "poor" out of my life. Up till then, I was not at the bottom of the barrel, I was under the barrel. The truth is, Word Faith people KNOW how to defeat lack and they teach others. It is all scripture. Ever study 2 Cor. 8:9 and 9:8?

All they are doing is worshipping money  Unless you KNOW them, personally, you cannot know what is in their heart.  I have seen supernatural offerings taken by the Holy Spirit. Suddenly, while the preacher is preaching, someone rushes to the front and throws money down. Seconds later hundreds are doing the same thing!  Perhaps you can believe some common sense: it would take the Holy Spirit to cause people to throw money down! It is NOT a natural think people do! Only the Holy Spirit could take up such an offering!  Let's see: how many camels did  Job have? 3000! They were the Cadillacs of the day: the beast way to travel. People would sure talk of a preacher had ten Cadillacs, much less 3000! I am sure many were jealous of Job, just as they are jealous of rich preachers today.
I will play a Revelation man: "GOLD NUGGET!" The truth is, God does not mind us having money. What He does NOT want is money having us.

you are defending them  No, I don't know them personally so I will certainly NOT talk against them. I chose the walk of love.

Please tell me, in what way have I blasphemed the Holy Spirit? I think not. That would be to say bad things about Him and/or what He does. For example, something really IS the Holy Spirit but someone says it is of the devil - or of kundalini.

I declare to You that "Jesus is the LORD" and yet you say the holy Ghost is not speaking through me.  You are just too sensitive! I have never said such a thing. Perhaps I have said you don't pray in tongues. I think from what you have said so far that is accurate.

You do not know how I pray, or how much I pray, yet you are judging my prayer life...Shame on you  I have said nothing about your prayer life except that you cannot pray in tongues.  Am I accurate in saying that? Praying is ALWAYS good. But praying in the Holy Spirit (tongues) is always a PERFECT prayer for it is coming from the Holy Spirit inside.

The Holy Ghost Prays with me, through me and for me.  I suspect this is true for all who are not filled with the Spirit. I have only asked over and over if you got what THEY got: so you can pray in tongues. Always remember, there are levels of anointing. My question is, do you KNOW what it is the Holy Spirit is praying through you? If you know, it is not Holy Spirit prayer as Paul described it: praying in tongues. When anyone prays in tongues, they don't know what they are praying. It is GOD creating the prayer and God answering it.  Many times we really don't know how to pray effectively. But the Holy Spirit ALWAYS does. All I am saying is, if you are not praying in tongues, you are missing a great gift of God that would make your prayers even better. But I understand: you don't WANT tongues prayer. I get that. For a time, I did not either.

I know that the opposition I face is not directed towards me, but the Truth of God's Word.  Agree: we are discussing and disagreeing over the TRUTH of the word of God. I know that when someone speaks in tongues, they are speaking to God - for no man can understand. I still wonder if you believe this verse yet!

I know the Pharisees were trying to kill Jesus.  Yes, His word had not place in them. They did not mix faith with His words. They rejected them outright.  I wonder, has 1 Cor. 14:2 found a place in your heart yet?

I really don't know why you fight so hard against the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It can only HELP you! If God has given you a message, you NEED the mighty baptism. But wait: do you think you already HAVE this mighty baptism - but without tongues? I think you do.  If so, my question is this: could your anointing be greater if you received this baptism just the way THEY received it? Don't  get angry; I am just asking.

or are you going to make room for repentance?  I have learned to repent INSTANTLY when I am convicted.  I don't walk to God, I RUN!

I still hope you will answer a question. I really want to know the answer. If you can tell me, please do.  If seems you get offended when I ask if you got exactly what they got...meaning of course, the baptism in the Holy Spirit WITH tongues as evidence. Can you explain your feelings about this? Then about tongues themselves: do you not believe me when I say that when anyone prays in tongues, it is the Holy Spirit creating a pray for the Father to answer?  He knows more about you than YOU know. His prayer will always be the perfect prayer for that time and place. Wouldn't this be helpful in your life?

You made a good post here, except for some side trails.

[dhchristian]

51 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

This is MY experience. I am not saying they have never happened - just I have never seen them.

Sorry to hear of your wife... I have seen these miracles many times in the churches I have attended and greater ones, but the Holy Ghost does not speak of himself But points to the Christ and the cross. (refer to my First rule of the Holy Ghost).

 

56 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

That is because they are at the forefront of this Laodicean age, and are the church that defines it.  I refuse to believe this unless it can be proven. I think you don't go to the churches I go to that are still on fire for God.

I Have been over this with you RE: the church ages, when they began, and why, how the flaw in fundamentalism (The Philadelphian age) was seen rightly by those who would become the Pentecostal denominations... how this was also tied with the Hort and Wescott corruptions of the Biblical text once again introducing Gnostic concepts into the text because of their reliance on Alexandrian texts... The rise of Darwinism and the compromises of literal reading of the text of the genesis account... the rise of 'higher criticism of the late 19th century and German rationalism which threw into question the authorship of texts, (Graf and Wellhausen et al.)  and destroyed the literal reading of text, and placed man's interpretation on a higher plane than the Word of God. All of this resulted in a religious movement that negated the cult of textualism of the fundamentalists, Rightly so, But placed man as the center of religious worship, and biblical interpretation. Gone was the Living Word of God. 

All things aside, The Pentecostal movement was right about the Holy Ghost and the absence of divine revelation, but what they introduced was flawed and God is fixing that as we speak in those that are Laodicean overcomers. The one thing the Laodicean overcomer is Known for is Christ Jesus being the head of the body, the All in all of Eph. 1;23. Do Some research for yourself all of these things happened at the turn of the century.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

2.  the gift of discernment and Prophecy, Wisdom and Knowledge... My guess is you are naming things but have never seen the real in evidence. Show me a verse for your gift of discernment - IF you can find one.  Do you know what a "word of knowledge" is? It is supernaturally knowing something that there was no natural way to know. 

I As a Laodicean overcomer offer you something better than a "word of Knowledge" I offer you the LIVING Word of God, and the Discernment HE brings when He is your all in all. Jesus is the Truth, the Amen. This is not human experience and interpretation, but Reading and understanding the Word of God by being taught by the very author of the Word of God, the Spirit of Truth, God with us, Emmanuel. What the Pentecostals offer was a good step in the right direction but not the last step in our walk. It freed us from the strict rationalism of the fundamentalist scribes, but in so doing negated what was good and honorable of the fundamentalist movement before. Pentecostalism is the tip of the iceberg of What God has to give us through his Holy Ghost, But the heart has to be right to receive it. (Choreo)

 

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

3.  Do you have a problem with wealth?

No, The love of money is the root of all evil, not Money itself. But Jesus also told the rich young ruler to give all he had to the poor. Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. (Matt 19:21) 

The point of this being that riches are a crutch of security that opposes faith, just like in the church of Laodicea... But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. (matt 19;26) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. (rev. 3;17-18)

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

My question is, do you KNOW what it is the Holy Spirit is praying through you?

this is an absurd question from you, I have Told you already he speaks through me, and I have told you that I agree with this, But tongues is an imperfect language when the perfect comes, which I am telling HE is here the Partial will pass away. This is why many in the charismatic churches are not speaking in tongues (IMO), which you bemoan, But to me is a sign of Christ showing up.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 

For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent. (Zeph. 3;9)

I do not know if you understand what I am saying or not. Asking me to speak in tongues is like taking a step back in my faith, not forward. As the coming of the LORD approaches, Tongues will cease, and a Pure language emerge. What once required tongues, now no longer does, as the Holy Ghost speaks through us. 

Think of it this way. What was lost at Eden when man sinned? Communion with God. What was restored at Calvary? Communion with God Through our mediator Christ Jesus.  What will be the final restoration of Humanity through the cross of Christ, when he becomes our all in all? Pure speech, and communion with God, as the mortal puts on immortality. The dying of tongues in the churches is a sign of a greater language to come.... can you receive this? 

[iamlamad]

45 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Sorry to hear of your wife... I have seen these miracles many times in the churches I have attended and greater ones, but the Holy Ghost does not speak of himself But points to the Christ and the cross. (refer to my First rule of the Holy Ghost).

 

I Have been over this with you RE: the church ages, when they began, and why, how the flaw in fundamentalism (The Philadelphian age) was seen rightly by those who would become the Pentecostal denominations... how this was also tied with the Hort and Wescott corruptions of the Biblical text once again introducing Gnostic concepts into the text because of their reliance on Alexandrian texts... The rise of Darwinism and the compromises of literal reading of the text of the genesis account... the rise of 'higher criticism of the late 19th century and German rationalism which threw into question the authorship of texts, (Graf and Wellhausen et al.)  and destroyed the literal reading of text, and placed man's interpretation on a higher plane than the Word of God. All of this resulted in a religious movement that negated the cult of textualism of the fundamentalists, Rightly so, But placed man as the center of religious worship, and biblical interpretation. Gone was the Living Word of God. 

All things aside, The Pentecostal movement was right about the Holy Ghost and the absence of divine revelation, but what they introduced was flawed and God is fixing that as we speak in those that are Laodicean overcomers. The one thing the Laodicean overcomer is Known for is Christ Jesus being the head of the body, the All in all of Eph. 1;23. Do Some research for yourself all of these things happened at the turn of the century.

I As a Laodicean overcomer offer you something better than a "word of Knowledge" I offer you the LIVING Word of God, and the Discernment HE brings when He is your all in all. Jesus is the Truth, the Amen. This is not human experience and interpretation, but Reading and understanding the Word of God by being taught by the very author of the Word of God, the Spirit of Truth, God with us, Emmanuel. What the Pentecostals offer was a good step in the right direction but not the last step in our walk. It freed us from the strict rationalism of the fundamentalist scribes, but in so doing negated what was good and honorable of the fundamentalist movement before. Pentecostalism is the tip of the iceberg of What God has to give us through his Holy Ghost, But the heart has to be right to receive it. (Choreo)

 

No, The love of money is the root of all evil, not Money itself. But Jesus also told the rich young ruler to give all he had to the poor. Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. (Matt 19:21) 

The point of this being that riches are a crutch of security that opposes faith, just like in the church of Laodicea... But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. (matt 19;26) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. (rev. 3;17-18)

this is an absurd question from you, I have Told you already he speaks through me, and I have told you that I agree with this, But tongues is an imperfect language when the perfect comes, which I am telling HE is here the Partial will pass away. This is why many in the charismatic churches are not speaking in tongues (IMO), which you bemoan, But to me is a sign of Christ showing up.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 

For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent. (Zeph. 3;9)

I do not know if you understand what I am saying or not. Asking me to speak in tongues is like taking a step back in my faith, not forward. As the coming of the LORD approaches, Tongues will cease, and a Pure language emerge. What once required tongues, now no longer does, as the Holy Ghost speaks through us. 

Think of it this way. What was lost at Eden when man sinned? Communion with God. What was restored at Calvary? Communion with God Through our mediator Christ Jesus.  What will be the final restoration of Humanity through the cross of Christ, when he becomes our all in all? Pure speech, and communion with God, as the mortal puts on immortality. The dying of tongues in the churches is a sign of a greater language to come.... can you receive this? 

As the coming of the LORD approaches, Tongues will cease,  Let's keep our doctrine straight here! The perfect has not yet come. Tongues will continue as long as the church age continues.  Has knowledge vanished away yet? Not hardly!  Knowledge is increasing. It is still the church age and will remain the church age until Jesus comes for us.  In other words, tongues is still for today and it would certainly NOT be a step backwards for you! The masterpiece of deception is showing again. You amaze me! Let's try this again; maybe, just maybe, you will get it this time.  What once required tongues, now no longer does  I guess you must think the church age is over! The masterpiece of deception shows through: you STILL do not understand God's purpose in tongues.  My guess is, you never will. You are simply not open to learning anything about "tongues" because you imagine you have it all figured out. Do you now believe 14:2? I doubt it!

When anyone prays in tongues, it is the Holy Spirit creating the sounds.  ("...as the Spirit gave the utterance") He is creating sounds and passing them to the mouth to be spoken, but attaches MEANING to every sound. In other words, the Holy Spirit is creating a langauge "on the spot." No devil can interfere because no devil has a clue what the Holy Spirit is praying! Follow me here now: the Holy Spirit knows more about you than YOU know; He knows the perfect prayer for you to pray every second of every day. So He, the Holy Spirit, the 3rd member of the Godhead, prays for you using your mouth and your authority. (That is, if it were YOU praying in tongues.) God the FAther hears and of course understands the meaning because God the Holy Spirit created it. Now you imagine somehow that having the Holy Spirit pray for you would be a step backward?  You could only say that if you did not understand God's purpose in tongues. If you read carefully over and over, you can get it: God's real purpose in tongues. I know you can!

As I see it, what you are saying is, you don't WANT the Holy Spirit to pray for you. If this is the case, you amaze me even more.

What was lost at Eden? A right relationship with God was lost.  Right: Jesus has restored it. He came to UNDO what Adam  did. All that remains is that death be conquered.

Sorry, but I don't buy into your argument. Many of the Pentecostals I know still use the KJV. I use it! This is why I don't buy much of what you say: I get around. I travel, and I visit churches. I have been to several different denominations and many non-denominational churches.  I have not seen what you say has happened. I see born again people that LOVE God and are doing their best to serve Him. The REAL church is the born again ones, and they are NOT Laodiceans!  Therefore I have disagreed with you in every post. Lukewarm is simply NOT born again.  We are very very close to the rapture of the church. In your mind it must be only you and a few others are ready! To me that is silly! There are untold millions of born again people who are certainly NOT lukewarm. To say that the Pentecostals are leading the pack into lukewarmness is just not the truth.  Perhaps you judgment an entire group by two or three leaders. That is just not right. 

I don't need to use textualism  or any other 'ism in my argument. Neither do I care a whit of "higher criticism." Those people left me when they created faulty bibles.  I prefer simple English - easy to understand. I prefer the KJV. But I know even they missed it occasionally. It is still one of the best ever done.

Holy Ghost does not speak of himself   What? Do you imagine when He heals someone He is speaking of himself? Do you imagine when I write of His acts, it is HE bragging on Himself? I guess many times I simply don't understand you.

Please tell me, do you now believe 1 Cor. 14:2? Tell me you do!

I As a Laodicean overcomer So you say.  I never was one so never had to overcome it.

offer you something better than a "word of Knowledge"  Can you get real for once? You are going to offer something better than a gift of the Holy Spirit?  Well, that has been the thrust of your argument: that what you have is better. I am beginning to understand.

When you need it, a word of knowledge or a word of wisdom is PRICELESS! So is prophecy.

The one thing the Laodicean overcomer is Known for is Christ Jesus being the head of the body  And here all this time I have thought EVERY true believer believed this.

I offer you the LIVING Word of God, and the Discernment HE brings when He is your all in all.  Have you doubted He is my all in all? If so, why?  To set the record straight again: I was born again by faith in the living word of God. I was then filled with the Spirit by faith in the living word of God. I have walked by faith for many years now: faith in the living word of God. If you offer me your "discernment" you have shown against the Pentecostals, sorry. I would rather stick with 1 Cor. 13. I don't trust your discernment.

This is not human experience and interpretation, but Reading and understanding the Word of God by being taught by the very author of the Word of God, the Spirit of Truth  Apparently you don't think this fits me. Imagine that! Well,, try 1 Cor. 14:2 once again. Do you believe it?

as the mortal puts on immortality. The dying of tongues in the churches is a sign of a greater language to come.... can you receive this?  I have always believed this, but it seems you don't: Tongues is for the church age and that will continue until we put on immortality. WE ARE NOT THERE YET!  The masterpiece is showing again and again. I wonder if you have learned anything: do you still try and compare apples to oranges?

I will point out the prayers:

Eph 1:

¹⁶ Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

¹⁷ That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

¹⁸ The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

¹⁹ And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

²⁰ Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

 

Eph 3:

¹⁶ That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

¹⁷ That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

¹⁸ May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

¹⁹ And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

Col 1:⁹ For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

¹⁰ That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

¹¹ Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

¹² Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

¹³ Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

¹⁴ In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

As the coming of the LORD approaches, Tongues will cease,  Let's keep our doctrine straight here! The perfect has not yet come. Tongues will continue as long as the church age continues.  Has knowledge vanished away yet? Not hardly!  Knowledge is increasing. It is still the church age and will remain the church age until Jesus comes for us.  In other words, tongues is still for today and it would certainly NOT be a step backwards for you! The masterpiece of deception is showing again. You amaze me! Let's try this again; maybe, just maybe, you will get it this time.  What once required tongues, now no longer does  I guess you must think the church age is over! The masterpiece of deception shows through: you STILL do not understand God's purpose in tongues.  My guess is, you never will. You are simply not open to learning anything about "tongues" because you imagine you have it all figured out. Do you now believe 14:2? I doubt it!

How many years were the prophets silent before The perfect came in Jesus Christ? 400 Years of silence. Be grateful we are only speaking of a few years....