Alternative Timeline? Comparing the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Spock said:

Wow M.,

Are you putting the return at 2027 because you believe a generation is at most 80 years so 1948 + 80 = 2028? 

"THAT GENERATION" does not even point to Israel's rebirth, it points to the LAST SIGN and those {THAT GENERATION} that see it. They get the 2300 days wrong, not understanding its 2300 Evening and Mornings, thus 1150 days. And we wonder why people go down rabbit holes. 

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

So Your understanding is the basis by which truth is arrived at? What does the Word of God say about trusting in your own understanding(Proverbs 3:5-7)? I Think you need refresh your methodology here, there is a problem here.

 

No my undestanfins are correct, I make the effort to make sure I publish/post factual statements instead of just posting stuff that that is not run by the Holy Spirit. When I see a Christian downgrading the Church my radar goes up. 

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Again, simple Grammar here. a morning and evening consists of one day. Go Back to Genesis 1 There was evening and morning, So did God create the earth in three days? According to your understanding He did. YOU ARE WRONG!

 And the Philistine drew near morning and evening, and presented himself forty days.1 Samuel 17:16

Was this then only 20 days? No because it clearly says 40 days Just like Daniel 8:14 clearly states And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The context of this chapter clearly points to Antiochus for it talks of a king of fierce countenance that comes after the King of Grecia (Alexander) rules, and he will pollute the temple. Antiochus Epiphanes Fulfilled this prophecy to the day exactly 2300days, not 1150 days.

Its about the End Time Anti-Christ, and that is not going to ever change. And it is 1150 days, can't you see the plain Hebrew says that ? Google it, its a well know fact, there are a number of deep dive studies on his being 1150 days. 

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Just because something is sealed up until the end times does not mean it does not pertain to events transpiring before end times. For example verse where many shall be Purified and made white points to all the years between Daniel and end times as you seem to agree. The fact that this purification is tied to the 1290/1335 days with a conjunction also places those days as leading up to the end times. Again, this is simple grammar, and no need add your faulty understanding to the mix as I clearly showed regarding the 2300 days. Daniel has a track record of super accurate prophecies and you seem to want to subjugate that to your understanding, Why? The 1290 days is a super accurate prophecy as well it is just we are now coming to understand the accuracy of that prophecy because it has been sealed up until now. Had the church a thousand years ago known the meaning of the prophecy would they have lived their life with the immanency of His coming? That is why this was sealed up.... Now that we are living in the end times it is unsealed to us to understand. And this points to 2027.

Do You see the problem yet with trusting in your own understanding? Paul Writes:

 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (Rom. 8:6-7)

To trust in your own understanding like you do is indicative of Not being born of the Spirit as outlined in Romans 8. You would not be the first Preacher in this situation, One popular example is Charles Wesley, Brother of John, who wrote all the Hymns. He went to Oxford, was ordained into the church of England and went into the ministry till he realized he was not born again. He Wrote his first Hymn upon becoming born again (And can it be) and went on to write hundreds of Hymns thereafter. I Do not know if this is true in your case as I barely know you, but this trust in your carnal mind is indicative of this. But that is between You and the LORD.

My assessment Goes hand in hand with your inability to see the harlotry in the church, and your lack of desire to test the Spirit in me. The Apostles gave us these tests for a reason, and it is because of these tests we in the church do not accept the teachings of Joseph Smith, J.T. Russel, Ellen White, L, And what not. Unfortunately the modern state of the church is one of tolerance of these Harlot teachings which began in the early 1900's with the ushering in of the Shekinah and Kundalini spirits into our worship. Thus the Laodicean Age Began. 

I am not here to play a game of trivial prophecy pursuit, But rather With a message that the church Needs to accept that they are Laodiceans and take the steps outlined in that Letter to overcome. The church in this post modern era when everything is relative to our understanding must take a stand On the Truth of the Word of God... Jesus is the Truth, He is the Word of God, we need to let him back in. Notice the intro to the letter to Laodicea, How the Characteristics Described are similar to this.

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; (rev. 3:14)

Jesus names himself the AMEN, which is the same word as VERILY, Truth. He is the TRUE Witness, the Word of God who was in the beginning of creation. Post modernism says there is no Truth, They deny the creation of God, Their god is their mind, and what their understanding tells them they believe. Jesus IS the Truth, He is the WAY, and He is the LIFE. The god of your mind will not get you to the Father, Only Jesus can and he is waiting outside the church Knocking, waiting for you to let him in, so that you can have the mind of Christ. 

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor. 2:14-16)

I see its pretty much a useless endeavor. 

[dhchristian]

Just now, Revelation Man said:

Its about the End Time Anti-Christ, and that is not going to ever change. And it is 1150 days, can't you see the plain Hebrew says that ? Google it, its a well know fact, there are a number of deep dive studies on his being 1150 days. 

Here is what John MacArthur says:

"This refers to 2300 Total units or days. Cf. Genesis  1:5: 'Evening and morning, the first day.'"

Perhaps you should avoid those "deep dive studies", cause it sounds like you are diving into the rabbit holes that tell you that scripture means exactly the opposite of what it plainly says.

1 minute ago, Revelation Man said:

I see its pretty much a useless endeavor.

Ignorance is Bliss...

 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.(Proverbs 9:8)

4 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

No my undestanfins are correct, I make the effort to make sure I publish/post factual statements instead of just posting stuff that that is not run by the Holy Spirit. When I see a Christian downgrading the Church my radar goes up. 

When I see a Christian ignoring the apostacy within the church is when I see one guilty of apostacy themselves. The Lord Jesus will rebuke you for this, But do not say I did not warn you.

God Bless. 

[WilliamL]

On 7/11/2019 at 3:33 PM, Spock said:

The main motive of this thread is to look at an alternative timeline, one that is not the usual consecutive one where trumpets follow seals and bowls follow trumpets.  Do you see a possibility the judgments are NOT consecutive? 

None at all.

First off, the numbers one through seven have biblical meanings/representations. So looking at this merely from that standpoint, OF COURSE there would likely be similarities between the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls for each individual ordinal.

But you've only examined the case from the pro viewpoint. If you look instead at the notable differences between the respective 1-7 events for the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls, then you should not help but see (unless you don't want to) that these are not the same events, other than in type.

To that point, note the substantial differences between the three earthquakes of Revelation. Or go here to read about them:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1089-the-three-earthquakes-of-revelation/

[Spock]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

None at all.

First off, the numbers one through seven have biblical meanings/representations. So looking at this merely from that standpoint, OF COURSE there would likely be similarities between the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls for each individual ordinal.

But you've only examined the case from the pro viewpoint. If you look instead at the notable differences between the respective 1-7 events for the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls, then you should not help but see (unless you don't want to) that these are not the same events, other than in type.

To that point, note the substantial differences between the three earthquakes of Revelation. Or go here to read about them:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1089-the-three-earthquakes-of-revelation/

Great to see you make an appearance here Wiliiam L.,

i always enjoy reading your perspective on prophecy and you didn’t let me down on this one too. 

Im pretty convinced now I was heading down the wrong path thinking the trumpets and bowls may be equal with just more details added.  Although the 6th both involve the drying up/crossing over of the Euphrates River.

Another peculiar similarity I’ve noticed:

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl all have the same 4 things happening:

1. Peals of thunder

2. Rumblings 

3. Flashes of Lightning

4. Earthquake 

im not sure what exactly to infer of that. I do wonder though if all three converge at the same end point in time.

[WilliamL]

13 minutes ago, Spock said:

Great to see you make an appearance here Wiliiam L.,

i always enjoy reading your perspective on prophecy and you didn’t let me down on this one too. 

Im pretty convinced now I was heading down the wrong path thinking the trumpets and bowls may be equal with just more details added.  Although the 6th both involve the drying up/crossing over of the Euphrates River.

Another peculiar similarity I’ve noticed:

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl all have the same 4 things happening:

1. Peals of thunder

2. Rumblings 

3. Flashes of Lightning

4. Earthquake 

im not sure what exactly to infer of that. I do wonder though if all three converge at the same end point in time.

What is signified is that 7 is the number of ultimate judgment. Seals: judgment of the Church (spirit-level people). Trumpets: judgment of the remnant of Jacob (soul-level people). Bowls: judgment of the nations (flesh-level people). Each in the order of their level of service to the Kingdom of Heaven.

After all of these judgments are completed in sequence, only then will the Kingdom of Heaven be fully established on earth. I guess in a sense that will be a type of convergence.

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by WilliamL

[Spock]

4 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Nope. What is signified is that 7 is the number of ultimate judgment. Seals: judgment of the Church (spirit-level people). Trumpets: judgment of the remnant of Jacob (soul-level people). Bowls: judgment of the nations (flesh-level people). Each in the order of their level of service to the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

You lost me on this one.......hmmmm

[WilliamL]

10 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Another peculiar similarity I’ve noticed:

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl all have the same 4 things happening:

1. Peals of thunder

2. Rumblings 

3. Flashes of Lightning

4. Earthquake 

And as shown in my blog post on the three earthquakes, comparable physical events to these took place at

1) God's descent upon Mount Sinai;

2) the judgment of Korah et. al. when they rebelled against the authority of Moses and Aaron; and

3) Joshua's Long Day, when the Lord fought with Israel against all the nations gathered together to destroy them.

Just as there was no literal convergence of those events into one, so there will be no literal convergence of the three latter-day #7 events.

[dhchristian]

Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? (Job 40:9)

The voice of thy thunder was in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook. (Psalm 77:18)

At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away. (Psalm 104:7)

As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. (Ezekiel 1:13)

And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. (Zech. 9:14)

And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. (Exo. 19:16)

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. (Exodus 20:18)

And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. (Rev. 4:5)

Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire. (Isa 29:6)

And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones. (Isa 30:30)

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it. (Eze. 13:13)

And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. (Eze 38:22)

Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? (Job 38:22-23)

At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire. The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire. (Psa 18:12-13)

Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand. (Isa 28:2)

Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. (Isa 13:13)

The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. (Joel 3:16)

Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother. (hag. 2:22-23)

And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. (Rev. 8:5)

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (Rev 11:19)

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. (Rev 16:17-21)

And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: (Rev 14:2) 

And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. (Rev. 19:6)

The Voice of the LORD is Like thunder, His Arrows as Lightning, His Destroyers are Hail fire and Brimstone, And the heavens and the Earth shake at his presence. This is What the Day of the LORD looks like, as confirmed throughout Old Testament Scripture, and this is what it will be Like when He returns  Riding on a White Horse, to execute the Judgment and Wrath of God. All Of this only Happens once in Revelation, But Multiple visions see this day coming. The seals, the trumpets, the characters, the vials, Etc.

Many of the Scriptures above from the Old testament point to the Day of the LORD to come, from Ezekiel 38, to Hag. 2. Until You understand this, All of prophecy is a Jumbled mess we cannot understand. In the Old testament a passage can go from speaking of the first advent and jump to the second advent, and then Back to the near future of that prophecy within one paragraph. In Order to rightly divide this You need to KNOW the voice of the LORD.  

 

 

[Marilyn C]

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 9:57 PM, Spock said:

Wow M.,

Are you putting the return at 2027 because you believe a generation is at most 80 years so 1948 + 80 = 2028? 

 

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 10:06 PM, Spock said:

Wow M.,

You surprised me here. Where did you come up with those dates?  Why do you believe 2020 starts the 7 year week? 

So, it sounds like you are seeing the Gog War from Ezekiel 38 happening very soon....(now till March 2020).  Is that possible? 

Hi Spock,

I thought you may get a shock. I`m still working through such a close time. Anyway I saw Dennis start to mention dates so I thought I`d add my bit. So good question, `Why` do I think those times. Well when I started looking into years I did what everyone else does and looked at the `generation that will not pass away,` & I thought, well, by 80 years, (2028) (Israelis) that would start to happen.

1. Jewish Calendar.

Then I looked at Daniel`s days in Dan. 12, (1,260, 1,290, & 1,335) and began to realise that the `blessed time` must be a celebration of the Lord`s victory and deliverance of Israel. That lead me to look up all the Jewish festivals for the different months. And that was quite revealing. I then read about `Adar 1 & Adar 2` relating to when Israel`s calendar catches up somewhat to the solar calendar. And this happens every 3 years or so. And Adar, (esp. Adar 2) is when Israel celebrates the great victory. 

Thus with a Jewish calendar and its festivals I was able to place that over the main points of the tribulation - Start, (Peace Treaty) sacrifices begin, Abomination of desolation, Lord`s return, Temple cleansing, Celebrating.

Then I tried 2020 - 2017, and 2023 - 2030 to see if there was a difference. and there was - one day, when the A/D occurred. In the earlier group the A/D happens on the Sabbath, (an affront to the Jews) whereas on the later group, the A/D happens on another day. Thus that was quite significant for me.

Then I also have some other indicators -

2. Happenings in the world system.

God is bringing Russia, (its army) down closer to Israel. Russia has leased a port from Syria just above Israel. There it can bring down its army, tanks, weapons etc etc. The other important nation that joins with Russia, is Iran and they have also put some of their army and weapons just over the Golan heights into Israel and are frequently sending missiles over there. 

The Economic situation. (I am putting together some notes about the Formation of the economic part of the Global Government.) At the moment the IMF is looking for a new leader. Christine Lagarde (the leader at the moment) will go to the European Central Bank while my bet for the new IMF leader is `Mark Carney,` a very Charismatic person with great financial background. The IMF will be, (& really is) the Lender of Last resort for the world. I`ll write more when I put the notes together.

Those are the main ones I look at, though of course - more earthquakes, etc, more lawlessness, etc

3. Clarification of truth for the Body of Christ. (Eph. 4: 11 - 16). I see this has progressed across the Body and even here on this forum over the years I have been on, I see we are coming closer to understanding `the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27)  

And the rise of the Laodicean group with their connection to the world system.

regards, Marilyn.

BTW I have more note on this in my blogs, called `The Tribulation Calendar.`