Alternative Timeline? Comparing the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments

[douggg]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Seriously though, look at the events in Ezekiel 38, and Compare them with the 7th Bowl, Trumpet and seal, and you will see that this "Event" occurs at the end of the final week, and not the beginning. The Cities of Israel are unwalled, because she has just been regathered and her ruins are yet to be rebuilt.   

But it also says that Israel is living in a state of peace in Ezekiel 38.     Which certainly will not be the case at the time the 7th Bowl of God's wrath takes place.

I am just expressing part of my "does it fit" or "does it not fit" thought process.

Edited August 5, 2019 by douggg

[dhchristian]

13 hours ago, douggg said:

If the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon were killed - that would be a major, major event to take place and would be found spelled out in Revelation.   But it is not because it doesn't happen.

It says so in 2 thess 2:8, at the day of Christ the beast is destroyed, The change of Power is obvious once you differentiate between the beast out of the sea, and the beast out of the bottomless pit. You even touched on it in your Daniel 11 comment. 

13 hours ago, douggg said:

Ezekiel 38, those supernatural events coming from God take place in Israel.

In Revelation 16:18-21, those supernatural events coming from God take place around the globe.

Quite frankly, I do not know how anyone can miss the similarities in Ezekiel 38 and the description of the seventh bowl, the great hailstones are just one of many...

1 Great shaking in the Land of Israel... as The Mount of olives splits in two (See Zech 14)

2.and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. notice the Presence of the LORD, Mountains thrown down...

3. The Sword of the Lord in verse 21...

4. Ravenous birds in 39:4 as per rev. 19:17-18

I Still do not know how you can not see this???

 

[WilliamL]

14 hours ago, douggg said:

16 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Seriously though, look at the events in Ezekiel 38, and Compare them with the 7th Bowl, Trumpet and seal, and you will see that this "Event" occurs at the end of the final week, and not the beginning. The Cities of Israel are unwalled, because she has just been regathered and her ruins are yet to be rebuilt.   

But it also says that Israel is living in a state of peace in Ezekiel 38.     Which certainly will not be the case at the time the 7th Bowl of God's wrath takes place.

I am just expressing part of my "does it fit" or "does it not fit" thought process.

It does not fit if you are locked into a 7-year everything happens. That is view founded on the widely-disputed single verse of Daniel 9:27. No other passage of the Bible mentions any 7-year timetable in the End Times.

What will actually transpire is a long period AFTER the dual destructions of the seals and trumpets. Earth will be depopulated to a mere fraction, technology will revert to primitive levels, and armies will again ride on horses and use shields and spears and bows, exactly as we see described in Ezekiel 38-39. I believe it will take DECADES before the carnal nations will be able to reorganize and repopulate enough to mount the culminating, Age-ending invasion of Israel. That is why the returnees are living in the land without gates and bars: there hasn't been enough people alive to amass any army for decades.

 

[dhchristian]

Just now, WilliamL said:

It does not fit if you are locked into a 7-year everything happens. That is view founded on the widely-disputed single verse of Daniel 9:27. No other passage of the Bible mentions any 7-year timetable in the End Times.

What will actually transpire is a long period AFTER the dual destructions of the seals and trumpets. Earth will be depopulated to a mere fraction, technology will revert to primitive levels, and armies will again ride on horses and use shields and spears and bows, exactly as we see described in Ezekiel 38-39. I believe it will take DECADES before the carnal nations will be able to reorganize and repopulate enough to mount the culminating, Age-ending invasion of Israel. That is why the returnees are living in the land without gates and bars: there hasn't been enough people alive to amass any army for decades.

7 billion, less 1/4=5.25 billion

5.25 billion, less 1/3= 3.465 billion

Up Until 1700 ad or so, the world population was never more than a billion, so I disagree. Let's say we drop to 2 billion, well by proportion, 1 billion will be men, and 200 million man army to amass should not be impossible. 

[WilliamL]

4 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

7 billion, less 1/4=5.25 billion

5.25 billion, less 1/3= 3.465 billion

Up Until 1700 ad or so, the world population was never more than a billion, so I disagree. Let's say we drop to 2 billion, well by proportion, 1 billion will be men, and 200 million man army to amass should not be impossible. 

But that army comes during the trumpets, not the bowls. And it is destroyed.

Isaiah 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

 

[dhchristian]

54 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

But that army comes during the trumpets, not the bowls. And it is destroyed.

Isaiah 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

After Jesus comes riding on the White Horse, yes, there will be few men left. 

 

[douggg]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

It does not fit if you are locked into a 7-year everything happens. That is view founded on the widely-disputed single verse of Daniel 9:27. No other passage of the Bible mentions any 7-year timetable in the End Times.

Yes, I am locked in.   The 7 years are in Revelation 12:6- 12:17.    But it not stated directly as such.   7 years is stated nowhere in the text.

The 7 years in Ezekiel 39 does not say in the text that it is the seven years of Daniel 9:27 either, but it is, by putting together a bunch of other verses and concepts.     I don't feel like going into all of them in this thread, too much material to cover.

[Sister]

 Revelation 20:7   And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

  Revelation 20:8   And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

Dear friends

There is only one Gog and Magog war.  It occurs "after" the 1000 years of rest (the millennium) as stated in Rev 20, when Satan is let out of his prison.

If we want to know about 'this war' we go back to Ezekiel 38 & 39.  It was foretold early, thousands of years ago.  Without Revelation 20, it would be hard to slot this war into the right time and place, but we have Rev 20 now - the key, and what was prophesied through Ezekiel is now opened up to us to fit it into the right place.

Satan always uses man to do his bidding.  He will "repeat" what he did a thousand years earlier.  He will choose a man again God calls -Gog, to lead his kingdom called Magog.  Out of all the nations that have been living in peace for a thousand years with no wars....there will still be amongst them men who refuse to circumcise their hearts.  The thousand years of teaching is finished.  Satan let out - now he starts stirring trouble amongst the nations again using Gog to lead.

When Gog and his armies attack the Camp of the Saints- where Israel is living in peace (serving the Lord Jesus now) , in the same kingdom that has no bars or walls (because the angels are that wall) , they will not enter the city but only surround.  Here is where fire comes directly from God and destroys them all and they will be buried in the valley called Hamongog.

1. Earth living in peace for a thousand years.

2. Satan let out after the thousand years expire

3. Satan uses Gog who gathers followers from the four quarters of the earth.  This new kingdom is now called "Magog".

4. Gog and his armies destroyed by fire straight from heaven.

5.  Seven months to bury the dead.  A witness and testimony to that generation of survivors of God's judgment.

6.  Seven years to burn all their weapons.  Enough time for this message to spread amongst the nations of what happens when we disobey the Lord.  An example given to  "them" also.

7.  Now will be the 2nd judgment - the White throne judgment.

Don't get the two wars mixed up.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Sister

[JoeCanada]

35 minutes ago, Sister said:

 Revelation 20:7   And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

  Revelation 20:8   And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

Dear friends

There is only one Gog and Magog war.  It occurs "after" the 1000 years of rest (the millennium) as stated in Rev 20, when Satan is let out of his prison.

If we want to know about 'this war' we go back to Ezekiel 38 & 39.  It was foretold early, thousands of years ago.  Without Revelation 20, it would be hard to slot this war into the right time and place, but we have Rev 20 now - the key, and what was prophesied through Ezekiel is now opened up to us to fit it into the right place.

Satan always uses man to do his bidding.  He will "repeat" what he did a thousand years earlier.  He will choose a man again God calls -Gog, to lead his kingdom called Magog.  Out of all the nations that have been living in peace for a thousand years with no wars....there will still be amongst them men who refuse to circumcise their hearts.  The thousand years of teaching is finished.  Satan let out - now he starts stirring trouble amongst the nations again using Gog to lead.

When Gog and his armies attack the Camp of the Saints- where Israel is living in peace (serving the Lord Jesus now) , in the same kingdom that has no bars or walls (because the angels are that wall) , they will not enter the city but only surround.  Here is where fire comes directly from God and destroys them all and they will be buried in the valley called Hamongog.

1. Earth living in peace for a thousand years.

2. Satan let out after the thousand years expire

3. Satan uses Gog who gathers followers from the four quarters of the earth.  This new kingdom is now called "Magog".

4. Gog and his armies destroyed by fire straight from heaven.

5.  Seven months to bury the dead.  A witness and testimony to that generation of survivors of God's judgment.

6.  Seven years to burn all their weapons.  Enough time for this message to spread amongst the nations of what happens when we disobey the Lord.  An example given to  "them" also.

7.  Now will be the 2nd judgment - the White throne judgment.

Don't get the two wars mixed up.

 

 

Hi Sister,

 Re: Ezek 38............It appears that Armageddon/Gog-Magog  is part of a near/far prophecy with BOTH aspects in the future. The final aspect being what you describe in Rev. 20 at the end of the Millennium.  There are numerous passages that apply primarily or solely to Armageddon.

Ezek. 38:17 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Are you the one of whom I spoke in former days through My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for many years that I would bring you against them?” This is the AC not Satan

Ezek. 38: 19-20 “On that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all the creeping things that creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at My presence; the mountains also will be thrown down, the steep pathways will collapse and every wall will fall to the ground.” this matches the earthquake at the Seventh Bowl which is Armageddon

Ezek. 38:23 ” I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the Lord.”’ In the Millennium all nations will already know that Jesus is Lord. This happens at Armageddon

Ezek. 39: 7 “My holy name I will make known in the midst of My people Israel.” Again this happens at Armageddon

Ezek. 39:17 “Speak to every kind of bird and to every beast of the field, “Assemble and come, gather from every side to My sacrifice which I am going to sacrifice for you, as a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel, that you may eat flesh and drink blood.” This matches what happens at Armageddon.

Ezek. 39: 22-23 ” And the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day onward. The nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile for their iniquity because they acted treacherously against Me, and I hid My face from them.” This happens at Armageddon as well. Israel will not be in exile in the Millennium.

[Sister]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Sister,

 Re: Ezek 38............It appears that Armageddon/Gog-Magog  is part of a near/far prophecy with BOTH aspects in the future. The final aspect being what you describe in Rev. 20 at the end of the Millennium. 

Hi JoeCanada

Yes there are many similiarities, but it's the anomolies we have to look at.

 

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There are numerous passages that apply primarily or solely to Armageddon.

Ezek. 38:17 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Are you the one of whom I spoke in former days through My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for many years that I would bring you against them?”

 

Ezekiel 38:14   Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

Satan is there with Gog.  So he is speaking to both.   Ezekiel was one of those prophets who warned us way before hand about this Gog and Magog war.  John warned also.  Take your mind way into the future when this is all happenning - after the millennium has expired.  God is recalling these scriptures we are reading today as a witness against him, and we testify that his witness is true for we were warned thousands of years before Gog came.  We know his end also.  Israel who is living in peace will be prepared for him also.

 

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This is the AC not Satan

The Anti-Christ is long gone, the one Satan used before.  He has to use someone again who is 'living'.  He choses another man - Gog to do his bidding.  Gog is Satan's man this time round. Satan is always behind it.

 

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Ezek. 38: 19-20 “On that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all the creeping things that creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at My presence; the mountains also will be thrown down, the steep pathways will collapse and every wall will fall to the ground.” this matches the earthquake at the Seventh Bowl which is Armageddon

God will do the same again.  No big deal.  It's how he works.  He sends another earthquake like he did a thousand years before.

Think about this, we today have been warned about the FP (you guys call him the antichrist).  Israel and all those who have been converted to Christ amongst the nations are joined to the land of Israel - one people, one Lord, one faith....All the loyal belonging to the same kingdom just like we are today.  That "land of Israel" is not only where the kingdom's headquarters are placed, but speaking about that whole "spiritual land" combined.  All worshippers belonging to the kingdom are spread out amongst the nations also.  Satan will use Gog to stir trouble amongst the nations again - to shake them up.  All those who have been converted will not follow Gog and join his army to attack other nations and finally Holy Jerusalem, but the rest will.  History repeats.  They have to all make a choice which side they belong to for a test is coming for them also, just like the one we have coming today.  No difference.  A final sifting.

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Ezek. 38:23 ” I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the Lord.”’ In the Millennium all nations will already know that Jesus is Lord. This happens at Armageddon

That last generation has to know for sure also.

 

Quote

 

Ezek. 39: 7 “My holy name I will make known in the midst of My people Israel.” Again this happens at Armageddon

Ezek. 39:17 “Speak to every kind of bird and to every beast of the field, “Assemble and come, gather from every side to My sacrifice which I am going to sacrifice for you, as a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel, that you may eat flesh and drink blood.” This matches what happens at Armageddon.

 

 

Yes it's similiar, but doesn't prove to be the same event.  Again, look at the anomolies, not the similarities.

 

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Ezek. 39: 22-23 ” And the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day onward. The nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile for their iniquity because they acted treacherously against Me, and I hid My face from them.” This happens at Armageddon as well. Israel will not be in exile in the Millennium.

 Ezekiel 39:21   And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

 Ezekiel 39:22   So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

Are we not all adopted into "the house of Israel" today?  Are we not also "a new called out people".  The house of Israel is "that land" of all serving in the kingdom of God amongst all the nations also.  That same "land/people."  The new generations have to come in also.

 

This "house of Israel" ....this "land" will know for sure that God is true to his word when God defends all his people during the attack of Gog and Magog.... just as we will receive confirmation when Jesus returns and avenges for us. The proof will be before all eyes in that new era. No different.  We were told, we believed, and it happened. Same for them. God is true and stands by his Word.

 Ezekiel 39:23   And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

The nations will be taught history, and given examples of what happened in the past to learn from and hand down to their children.  Israel will not repeat, nor will they forget the harsh lessons learned.  They will teach their children also, and the nations.  Don't forget that there are another seven years to go before the Great White Judment.  It's not the complete end yet.

 

So "the house of Israel" is all belonging to that land (kingdom of God) amongst the nations. All converts belonging to the same house. All one people in one faith serving one Lord.  All will see with their own eyes God's judgment.
 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Sister