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Alternative Timeline? Comparing the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments

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24 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

saiah 24 is not all all speaking about the Armageddon-day battle, but about a much earlier time.

Isaiah 24 21 So it will happen in that day, That the LORD will punish the host of heaven on high, And the kings of the earth on earth.

22 They will be gathered together Like prisoners in the dungeon, And will be confined in prison; And after many days they will be punished.
 
The heavenly host is punished first, in the beginning of the Trib., when Satan and his angels are cast down. Only "after many days" shall these be punished, after Armageddon, when they are cast into the lake of fire (except for Satan).
So Isaiah 24 is speaking about early on in the End Times that there will be "few men left," not at the end of the End Times, when the earth has been repopulated enough for the vast multitude to gather under Gog to invade Israel. Israel will be a peace then; the events spoken of in Isaiah 24 say nothing of these latter things taking place before that punishment.

Isaiah 24 is speaking of the day of the LORD, which is when Jesus comes riding on the White horse. The many days refers to the millennium...

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:6

Edited by dhchristian

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14 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Isaiah 24 is speaking of the day of the LORD, which is when Jesus comes riding on the White horse. The many days refers to the millennium...

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:6

The Day of the Lord is not when Jesus returns at the Second Coming. Its the day he opens the first 6 Seals back to back to back in a flash. That is the Wrath of God/The Lamb and its found quoted as such in Rev. 6 where those people call it the Wrath of the Lamb....thus God. Its the same event mentioned in Joel 2. It lasts from the first Seals being opened until the 7th Vial as per the Wrath. The DOTL may last through the 1000 year reign also. 

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Just now, Revelation Man said:

The Day of the Lord is not when Jesus returns at the Second Coming. Its the day he opens the first 6 Seals back to back to back in a flash. That is the Wrath of God/The Lamb and its found quoted as such in Rev. 6 where those people call it the Wrath of the Lamb....thus God. Its the same event mentioned in Joel 2. It lasts from the first Seals being opened until the 7th Vial as per the Wrath. The DOTL may last through the 1000 year reign also. 

The day of the Lord is a say of thunder, Lightnings, great hailstones,great earthquakes, and the wrath of God on all wickedness. It begins with Armageddon. The day of Christ and the Wrath of the Lamb is either pre 7 years, if you are a pretribber, or in the middle of the final week if you are prewrather like myself.

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7 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

The day of the Lord is a say of thunder, Lightnings, great hailstones,great earthquakes, and the wrath of God on all wickedness. It begins with Armageddon. The day of Christ and the Wrath of the Lamb is either pre 7 years, if you are a pretribber, or in the middle of the final week if you are prewrather like myself.

I am a pre trib guy....the Wrath starts in the Middle of the week as the first 6 Seals are opened on day 1261. Armageddon begins on the Day Jesus Returns which would be day 2520. All the Seals, Trumpets and Vials happen during the DOTL.

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On 8/8/2019 at 5:33 PM, dhchristian said:
On 8/8/2019 at 4:55 PM, WilliamL said:

saiah 24 is not all all speaking about the Armageddon-day battle, but about a much earlier time.

Isaiah 24 21 So it will happen in that day, That the LORD will punish the host of heaven on high, And the kings of the earth on earth.

22 They will be gathered together Like prisoners in the dungeon, And will be confined in prison; And after many days they will be punished.
 
The heavenly host is punished first, in the beginning of the Trib., when Satan and his angels are cast down. Only "after many days" shall these be punished, after Armageddon, when they are cast into the lake of fire (except for Satan).
So Isaiah 24 is speaking about early on in the End Times that there will be "few men left," not at the end of the End Times, when the earth has been repopulated enough for the vast multitude to gather under Gog to invade Israel. Israel will be a peace then; the events spoken of in Isaiah 24 say nothing of these latter things taking place before that punishment.

Isaiah 24 is speaking of the day of the LORD, which is when Jesus comes riding on the White horse. The many days refers to the millennium...

Revelation Man is correct: the Day of the Lord includes the entire period from the beginning of the Seals all the way through the 7th Bowl. Note what Isaiah 2 testifies:

Isaiah 2:12 For the Day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: ... 19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. 20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; 21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

These things take place during the first shaking of the earth, at the sixth seal:

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; etc. ... 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb...

In contrast, when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven in Rev. 19 at the battle of Armageddon, rather than hiding,

"the kings of the earth and their armies [will be] gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army." Rev. 19:19.

Big difference; but both events included in the Day of the Lord.

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44 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Revelation Man is correct: the Day of the Lord includes the entire period from the beginning of the Seals all the way through the 7th Bowl. Note what Isaiah 2 testifies:

Generally speaking, yes it is. I am referring to his Wrath. When the LORD sets foot upon the earth. That is a specific day.

Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. (Amos 5:18)

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (mal 4:5)

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, (Zech 14:4a)

 

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6 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Generally speaking, yes it is. I am referring to his Wrath. When the LORD sets foot upon the earth. That is a specific day.

Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. (Amos 5:18)

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (mal 4:5)

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, (Zech 14:4a)

 

But it's not ONE DAY, its a day wherein God's Wrath begins. They had a very different style of writing, of course, they had a language with 4000 words at the start to as much as 7900 words at its zenith, thus the Hebrew language must be studied in depth when trying to understand it. I see YOWM as meaning a period of time in Genesis, not a day per se. Likewise when the day of the Lord begins, His wrath begins, ON THAT DAY, then we have to determine when it ends, and by looking at every mention of Day of the Lord in the bible we can determine that it is indeed many, many more days than one day. We can see all the things that comes to pass on this ONE DAY.....thus its not ONE DAY, but ONE DAY in which His Wrath falls upon mankind, there is indeed ONE DAY in which it begins, God is pointing to that ONE DAY....Many of you guys interpret it wrongly IMHO, that its just one day, but the clues do not tell us that at all. 

Elijah is indeed sent back BEFORE the DOTL begins, he turns Israel back unto God (the 1/3 who repent in Zechariah 13:8-9). Then in Zechariah 14:1-2 we see that the Anti-Christ Conquers/enslaves Jerusalem/the Jews. The 1/3 have already fled Judea for the safety of Petra/Bozrah. The 2/3 will perish. Then in Zechariah 14:3-4 we see Jesus returns to DEFEAT the Beast and his minions. So 14:1-2 BEGINS the DOTL, verses 3-4 ENDS God's Wrath against mankind. Thus they repent before this Day begins in Zechariah 13:8-9, 1/3 flee Judea and 2/3 will perish. 

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Just now, Revelation Man said:

But it's not ONE DAY, its a day wherein God's Wrath begins.

But if you do a clear study of revelation you will see so much more than wrath especially early on in revelation. There is Mercy in the trumpets, that calls for repentance, there is opportunity in the seals with each progression for the saints to revive and give their testimony, and thereby accomplish the will Of God. And then there is Wrath, yes incrementally in the Bowls, but on Grand scale when he sets foot upon the earth and leads the armies to battle. He is a Loving God who does not wish that any should perish, but he is also a just God that demands vindication. His Wrath is the final phase of end times, and the Righteous are never allowed to witness His Wrath. But the righteous have been able to experience his plagues upon the earth many times, and they have had to deal with them. Elijah had to deal with the drought when by his prayer he withheld the rain, and had to deal with the resulting famine going to the widows house to be fed. Israel had to deal with a bunch of Plagues before they were locked in their homes protected by the blood on the first Passover. They did not witness this wrath. These are all example of what the day of the Lord is Like. Yes, God was at work in the first plague in Egypt, but the day of his wrath was a specific day.   

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On 7/11/2019 at 4:33 PM, Spock said:

Greetings again Church and fellow prophecy seekers:

Our dear sister, Marilyn, has turned me on to a timeline that I am now  looking hard at.  She believes the 6 seals are spread throughout the entire 70th week with the 6th obviously being where Christ returns to the planet to rule and reign. She has both the trumpets and bowls inside the seals, not in consecutive order.  This timeline has made me look harder at the judgments, in particular, the trumpet and bowl judgments.  

The main motive of this thread is to look at an alternative timeline, one that is not the usual consecutive one where trumpets follow seals and bowls follow trumpets.  Do you see a possibility the judgments are NOT consecutive? 

Surprisingly, I noticed each one corresponds to the other....in other words the first trumpet is similar to the first bowl, and so forth. Here is a readers digest synopsis of the 7 judgments for each:

Trumpets.......Bowls

1. Trumpet: Affects EARTH..trees, grass...Bowls: poured onto EARTH

2. Trumpet: affects the SEA.......Bowls: poured into the SEA

3. Trumpet: fell on the RIVERS.......Bowl: poured into the RIVERS and springs

4. Trumpet: third of the SUN, moon, and stars were smitten.......Bowl: poured upon the SUN 

5. Trumpet: star fallen from heaven (Satan?), key to abyss opened and smoke DARKENED Sun.......Bowl: poured upon the Beast throne, and his kingdom became DARKENED, leading to much pain 

6. Trumpet: release angels bound at the EUPHRATES RIVER, 1/3 men killed..........Bowl: poured upon the EUPHRATES RIVER, to gather the kings to battle

7. Trumpet: the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord, and He will reign forever.........Bowl: a voice out of the Temple says  “it is finished”  

Side note just before release of the 7th trumpet: “ in that hour a great earthquake and 1/10 of Jerusalem fell.......7th Bowl: great earthquake, Jerusalem was split into 3 parts

Conclusion and Questions to ask: It seems pretty obvious to me the trumpets and bowls in order are similar in affecting their intended result. So, is it possible each overlap? Are the bowls just giving us more detail of the trumpets?  Are they thus necessarily consecutive, or can they be released concurrently?  Is it possible the seal Judgments can be opened throughout the 70th week and end at the final battle that brings Christ back down just before he establishes his MK?  I look forward to reading your answers and reading your thoughts. 

I have pasted all necessary scripture at the bottom so you don’t have to go far to find them to look at.  I am opening up this thread to provoke thought, conversation, and an exchange of ideas. We are the Body of Christ so let us support each member with our gifts, talents, and wisdom.

 

TRUMPET JUDGMENTS:

7Then the first angel sounded his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass.

8Then the second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned to blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

10Then the third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star burning like a torch fell from heaven and landed on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water.11The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter like wormwood oil, and many people died from the bitter waters.

12Then the fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun and moon and stars were struck. A third of the stars were darkened, a third of the day was without light, and a third of the night as well.

1Then the fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to earth, and it was given the key to the pit of the Abyss. 2The star opened the pit of the Abyss, and smoke rose out of it like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke from the pit.

3And out of the smoke, locusts descended on the earth, and they were given power like that of the scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5The locusts were not given power to kill them, but only to torment them for five months, and their torment was like the stinging of a scorpion. 6In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, but death will escape them.

7And the locusts looked like horses prepared for battle, with something like crowns of gold on their heads, and faces like the faces of men. 8They had hair like that of women, and teeth like those of lions. 9They also had thoraxes like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the roar of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10They had tails with stingers like scorpions, which had the power to injure people for five months. 11They were ruled by a king, the angel of the Abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon,a and in Greek it is Apollyon.b

12The first woe has passed. Behold, two woes are still to follow.

13Then the sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God 14saying to the sixth angel with the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”

15So the four angels who had been prepared for this hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16And the number of mounted troops was two hundred million; I heard their number.

17Now the horses and riders in my vision looked like this: The riders had breastplates the colors of fire, sapphire, and brimstone. The heads of the horses were like the heads of lions, and out of their mouths proceeded fire, smoke, and brimstone. 18A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke, and brimstone that proceeded from their mouths. 19For the power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; indeed, their tails were like snakes, having heads with which to inflict harm.

15Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: 

“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”

 

 

BOWL JUDGMENTS:

the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and loathsome, malignant sores broke out on those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

3And the second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it turned to blood like that of the dead, and every living thing in the sea died.

4And the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and springs of water, and they turned to blood. 5And I heard the angel of the waters say: 

“Righteous are You, O Holy One, who is and who was, because You have brought these judgments.6For they have spilled the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”7And I heard the altar reply: “Yes, Lord God Almighty, true and just are Your judgments.”

8Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was given power to scorch the people with fire. 9And the people were scorched by intense heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues; yet they did not repent and give Him glory.

10And the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness, and men began to gnaw their tongues in anguish 11and curse the God of heaven for their pains and sores; yet they did not repent of their deeds.

12And the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East.

13And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs coming out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. 14These are demonic spirits that perform signs and go out to all the kings of the earth, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God, the Almighty.

15“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

16And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came from the throne in the temple, saying, “It is done!”

18And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth—so mighty was the great quake. 19The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath.

20Then every island fled, and no mountain could be found. 21And huge hailstones, about a hundred pounds each,a rained down on them from above. And men cursed God for the plague of hail, because it was so horrendous.

Spock, don't get lost in the forest staring at individual trees! Back up a few paces and notice that the seals are sealing a BOOK and John's purpose is to get that book opened so that the trumpets can be sounded so that Satan can be cast down. It is a sequence that cannot be rearranged: don't give Marilyn's theory the time of day: it DOES NOT FIT.  The book cannot be opened to start the trumpet judgements until all seven seals are opened first. Did you overlook this verse?

8:1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.  2.  And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 

 

This one verse is a sabot thrown into the gears: it sabotages her theory: it utterly destroys it. All seven seals must be opened before the 7 angels get their 7 trumpets.

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21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

But it's not ONE DAY, its a day wherein God's Wrath begins. They had a very different style of writing, of course, they had a language with 4000 words at the start to as much as 7900 words at its zenith, thus the Hebrew language must be studied in depth when trying to understand it. I see YOWM as meaning a period of time in Genesis, not a day per se. Likewise when the day of the Lord begins, His wrath begins, ON THAT DAY, then we have to determine when it ends, and by looking at every mention of Day of the Lord in the bible we can determine that it is indeed many, many more days than one day. We can see all the things that comes to pass on this ONE DAY.....thus its not ONE DAY, but ONE DAY in which His Wrath falls upon mankind, there is indeed ONE DAY in which it begins, God is pointing to that ONE DAY....Many of you guys interpret it wrongly IMHO, that its just one day, but the clues do not tell us that at all. 

Elijah is indeed sent back BEFORE the DOTL begins, he turns Israel back unto God (the 1/3 who repent in Zechariah 13:8-9). Then in Zechariah 14:1-2 we see that the Anti-Christ Conquers/enslaves Jerusalem/the Jews. The 1/3 have already fled Judea for the safety of Petra/Bozrah. The 2/3 will perish. Then in Zechariah 14:3-4 we see Jesus returns to DEFEAT the Beast and his minions. So 14:1-2 BEGINS the DOTL, verses 3-4 ENDS God's Wrath against mankind. Thus they repent before this Day begins in Zechariah 13:8-9, 1/3 flee Judea and 2/3 will perish. 

Elijah (the spirit of) indeed came before the Day of the Lord when John the Baptist came in the SPIRIT of Elijah. Elijah in person will be one of the two witnesses. 

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