Spock Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Firm Foundation said: You made the claim. Prove it. You didn’t answer my simple question........do you keep all the 613 laws as set forth by Moses (tattoo being one of them)? If you INSIST WE HAVE TO KEEP the law of no tattoos then you must insist on keeping all of them. This is not a cafeteria plan, you know? So do you keep ALL of them? If not, why are you being so legalistic about tattoos? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Firm Foundation said: The moral laws. No, it doesn't have to be all of them. That is another false doctrine. The laws of separation never applied to gentiles and the Levitical priesthood was only till the cross. Well, if you only keep the MORAL LAWS, guess what? I’ve never heard of “Thou shall not wear tattoos.” Google Old Testament Moral Laws.....if you are interested in knowing the MORAL LAWS. Honestly, this conversation always goes the same way so let me tell you how it ends.... someone tells us we should keep one of the 613 mitzvahs as set forth by Moses, known as the Mosaic law. In this instance, it is tattoos, next time it will be someone telling us we should not eat pig......whatever......and then I say, fine, so do you keep all 613 mitzvahs? You avoid the question because you know you don’t. You just want to make a big deal about the one law you do keep, which to me makes me feel you are talking down to those who don’t keep that law, in this instance, tattoos. At this point, The debate is now officially over with because it has no where else to go. If you don’t keep all 613, you have no standing to advocate for the keeping of the one that you do keep. The only person who possibly could continue the discussion with proper standing is the one who actually does keep all 613. Good luck in finding that person...... So unless you tell us you absolutely keep all 613 laws, you have no standimg to continue this discussion.......I know you don’t believe in tattoos just as I don’t, but the difference is I don’t use them because I’m not interested, and apparently you do it to please God, I suppose. Let’s leave it at that. If you believe this pleases God, good for you. However I do not believe you have the right to accuse one of sinning if they do have a tattoo. I believe this is being LEGALISTIC. Many of us here believe we are not under the Mosaic Law but rather under the New Covenant. For those who missed this link, here is the Mosaic Law, the 613 mitzvahs God set forth for ISRAEL to follow when they left Egypt. Enjoy.... https://havurahshirhadash.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/mitzvot1.pdf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worship Warriors Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,218 Content Per Day: 1.18 Reputation: 4,854 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/18/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 Torah means instructions in righteousness; teaching for walking with God. The Torah does not mean a legalistic set of rules. Now that Israel have been redeemed by faith in the blood of the Lamb this is how they are to live. We have the same principles in the NT, now that we have been redeemed, this is how we are to live holy lives. You have an obligation to walk in God’s commandments. How you live determine not your salvation but your eternal rewards. Christianity and Judaism are similar. For both OT and NT believer’s salvation is by grace through faith The problem with the English translation The problem with the English translation is that it translates the Torah given by God to Moses as law, it translates the Torah perverted by the Scribes and Pharisee as works of self-righteousness as law, it translates the oral laws the traditions of the elders as Law and it translates the law of sin and death that is in the carnal nature as law. The Torah is God’s unchanging Laws. In the millennium the Torah will go forth from Jerusalem and be taught to all the gentiles’ nations. Twice the Holy Spirit emphasis this statement in Isaiah 2:2 and in Micah 4:1-2 word for word Two prophetic word given to two separate prophets by the Holy Spirit but exactly word for word And many people shall go and say, Come you and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob and He will teach us of His ways and we will walk in His paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem The Torah is not abolished. It is God’s unchanging Law .The Holy Spirit now writes the Torah on the heart and mind of believers. Romans 8:4 God send his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. For what purpose? That the righteousness of the law (Torah) might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Worship Warriors said: Torah means instructions in righteousness; teaching for walking with God. The Torah does not mean a legalistic set of rules. Now that Israel have been redeemed by faith in the blood of the Lamb this is how they are to live. We have the same principles in the NT, now that we have been redeemed, this is how we are to live holy lives. You have an obligation to walk in God’s commandments. How you live determine not your salvation but your eternal rewards. Christianity and Judaism are similar. For both OT and NT believer’s salvation is by grace through faith The problem with the English translation The problem with the English translation is that it translates the Torah given by God to Moses as law, it translates the Torah perverted by the Scribes and Pharisee as works of self-righteousness as law, it translates the oral laws the traditions of the elders as Law and it translates the law of sin and death that is in the carnal nature as law. The Torah is God’s unchanging Laws. In the millennium the Torah will go forth from Jerusalem and be taught to all the gentiles’ nations. Twice the Holy Spirit emphasis this statement in Isaiah 2:2 and in Micah 4:1-2 word for word Two prophetic word given to two separate prophets by the Holy Spirit but exactly word for word And many people shall go and say, Come you and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob and He will teach us of His ways and we will walk in His paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem The Torah is not abolished. It is God’s unchanging Law .The Holy Spirit now writes the Torah on the heart and mind of believers. Romans 8:4 God send his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. For what purpose? That the righteousness of the law (Torah) might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Does this mean you follow all 613 mitzvahs? Or at least the ones that don’t involve a Temple. Do you believe anyone putting a tattoo on them is sinning? Just curious, do you ever eat pig, shrimp, rabbit, duck, catfish or any fish without a scale and fin, and all shell fish including lobster. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.99 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) I will not enter this fray about tats, but will comment on one thing. I will say this. It is very apparent to me that Yeshua (Jesus) gave the law to Moses. He said, "..not one jot or tittle will pass from the Law until ALL is fulfilled". He also kept it Himself. Go figure and see if you should look down on His law (disdain it) and disregard it. David said, "the law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul; the testimony of the Law is pure making wise the simple..." Edited July 13, 2019 by Justin Adams 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: I will not enter this fray about tats, but will comment on one thing. I will say this. It is very apparent to me that Yeshua (Jesus) gave the law to Moses. He said, "..not one jot or tittle will pass from the Law until ALL is fulfilled". He also kept it Himself. Go figure and if you should look down on His law (disdain it) and disregard it. David said, "the law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul; the testimony of the Law is pure making wise the simple..." May I suggest you particularly reread the book of Hebrews and then please go back and reread the Sermon on the amount again, Matthew 5-7, and then consider the CONTEXT and AUDIENCE when Jesus uttered those words in Matthew 5 you cited. Considering them is HUGE in being able to understand and interpret scripture. Cheers.....happy hunting, brother! Let me know what you think. spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCowboy Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 213 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 303 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 I have 6 tattoos n I don't believe i'm gonna burn for it. They made not be your cup of tea but your not to judge....correct? Just my two bits, JJ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 Just now, BorderCowboy said: I have 6 tattoos n I don't believe i'm gonna burn for it. They made not be your cup of tea but your not to judge....correct? Just my two bits, JJ Yeeeeeeee-haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....ride em Cowboy! We thank you for your two bits. I feel very confident God won’t be discussing your tattoos when you have your face to face debriefing. Now He might have a chat with you if you mistreated your horses! (Wink) spock out 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortangel Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 839 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 634 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/12/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 I've never seen an infection that bad of somebody having a Tatoo removed that looks painful :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted July 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Spock said: You didn’t answer my simple question........do you keep all the 613 laws as set forth by Moses (tattoo being one of them)? If you INSIST WE HAVE TO KEEP the law of no tattoos then you must insist on keeping all of them. This is not a cafeteria plan, you know? So do you keep ALL of them? If not, why are you being so legalistic about tattoos? I saw the coolest thing on you tube once......a preacher, Bruxy Cavey, had Leviticus 19:28 tattooed on his arm for a conversation starter.....we are either under law or we are not.....we aren’t .Nice to see somebody with the guts, especially a preacher live it out.....he actually BELIEVES in Grace.....kudos to him.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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