pg4Him Posted July 17, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 347 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 370 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/20/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2019 If we are all the royal priesthood of Christ, and each man is the priest of his home, then I’m not sure what Levite class there is for us to tithe to. Last time I checked the pastors/elders of a local church were not Levite priests. But this, matters not to the church organizations looking to exact a monthly membership fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted July 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Worship Warriors said: You are giving to the LORD and you are bringing your all tithes and offering into his storehouse. Its against the Law of Torah for an entity other than the Levit at the Jerusalem Temple to demand tithe from people. The storehouse is not a church, its the rooms to keep the crop from farming communities. Nehemiah 10:37-38 to bring the firstfruits of our dough, our offerings, the fruit from all kinds of trees, the new wine and oil, to the priests, to the storerooms of the house of our God; and to bring the tithes of our land to the Levites, for the Levites should receive the tithes in all our farming communities. And the priest, the descendant of Aaron, shall be with the Levites when the Levites receive tithes; and the Levites shall bring up a tenth of the tithes to the house of our God, to the rooms of the storehouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandalfTheWise Posted July 17, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 24 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 2,377 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2019 52 minutes ago, R. Hartono said: 3 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said: I simply dislike posts and arguments that amount to mud throwing without worrying if the accusations are accurate. This latest post again carries inadequately researched and overly broad accusations. How bout that Kenneth Copeland Ministry ? Did their member give to the poor or to Copeland ? that US 1,3 Billion accumulated in his bank account. Who would help the poor Lazarus then ? Jesus has entrusted the poor to the church My response was specifically referring to the overly broad accusations about Christian schools being for profit and making money for churches. The Copeland example is the first that seems to carry some weight. However, it does not undo other accusations which appear to be baseless. The damage of those other accusations is done. What if someone quotes those posts and assumes everything is true? What if someone reads the OP and now believes supporting ministries in Kenya is a questionable thing? What if someone now believes that most Christians schools are primarily profit centers for greedy preachers? Who knows what posts get picked up by a search engine and read by someone who might assume it's factual. I have little respect for people who toss out a series of accusations waiting for one to be valid and never clarify, acknowledge or apologize for those that might not be true. In this case, this thread includes comments, links, and an image implying very negative things about particular ministries in Kenya as well as broad condemnation of a range of churches in Kenya. It also includes a general negative characterization of Christian schools passed off as factual. When one passes on potentially baseless accusations against particular Christians or churches or ministries or a broad range of ministries, one has the responsibility to do basic fact checking before posting as well as posting corrections if more information comes to light. Why do I push something like this so tenaciously? Because we Christians should be prime examples of those committed to truth. We should be examples of good research and fact checking. It's the main reason I research and write posts such as my first on this thread about CITAM ministries in Kenya. I'm trying to set an example of how to fact check accusations to try to determine what is true and what is not. None of us is perfect; it is how we react to and deal with our imperfections and mistakes that is the example we set for others inside and outside the church. I tend to agree with most of your points on this thread. I however cannot let things that are pushing the edge of libelous go. It reflects badly on the other posters on this site when such things go unchallenged and left as factual. I'd like to toss in my two bits about tithing and giving and how ministries should handle their resources, but I do not want to be associated in any way with some of these accusations on this thread or the OP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted July 17, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 875 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 757 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/04/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2019 10 hours ago, R. Hartono said: A famous pastor with private jets in USA says in order to rcv millions we have to give millions. If you go fishing you can use bigger bait for bigger fish, is God a fish ? Jesus told a story of a poor widow who actually gave more than every body in Israel, did she/the widow become rich ? I always wondered about that widow who gave all. The Word is silent on her outcome. I know she did a good thing, but perhaps her gain was heavenly instead of earthly? I have found God gives me what I need. My ambitions and fleshy desires are not His interest apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worship Warriors Posted July 17, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,220 Content Per Day: 1.18 Reputation: 4,856 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/18/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kristin said: I always wondered about that widow who gave all. The Word is silent on her outcome. I know she did a good thing, but perhaps her gain was heavenly instead of earthly? I have found God gives me what I need. My ambitions and fleshy desires are not His interest apparently. Psalm 37:4 Delight yourself also in the LORD: and he shall give you the desires of your heart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristin Posted July 17, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 875 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 757 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/04/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Worship Warriors said: Psalm 37:4 Delight yourself also in the LORD: and he shall give you the desires of your heart. Exactly. Thank you for reminding me❤️I wrote it down so I won’t forget. I was sounding a bit bitter. Not me! I will delight in our Lord! Edited July 17, 2019 by Kristin Add thoughts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg4Him Posted July 17, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 347 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 370 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/20/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2019 I don’t want to sound like a negative nancy, but it really does matter what comprises the desire of our heart. Our hearts are swirling messes of desires that often compete against each other. Some are fleeting, others long-term. Some are beneficial to us and some are not. What do we want the most? Watchman Nee said it best... “We cannot expect the Lord to give anything better, for these constant difficulties are His best. Should one approach the Lord and pray, saying, ‘O Lord, please let me choose the best thing for my life,’ I believe the Lord would tell him, ‘What I have given you is the best—your daily trials are for your greatest profit.’” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevana Posted July 18, 2019 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 27 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2019 Yes ,,, yet we must discern not judge, I believe because if God is using this to reach out to the lost . Then those that are covetous of his money lay their own bed ... selah KEV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted July 19, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) On 7/18/2019 at 9:24 AM, kevana said: Yes ,,, yet we must discern not judge, I believe because if God is using this to reach out to the lost . Then those that are covetous of his money lay their own bed ... selah KEV I will be happy if the church become rich so they can help people especially the poor member like Apostles and Paul did. How would the poor Lazarus be relieved if these pastors abuse the Torah (tithe) and keep the money for themselves ? https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/net-worth-richest-pastors-will-blow-your-mind.html/ This is in Indonesia : https://www.indoboom.com/2013/stories/church-pastor-embezzles-4-7-trillion-from-church-offerings.html The early church of the apostles distributed their money according to the need of each believers so nobody was lacked, did these rich pastors do so ? Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. Paul directed the churches to PUT SOMETHING ASIDE ONLY IF THEY MAY PROSPER. First Corinthians 16:1-3 “Now concerning the collection for the saints: as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you also are to do. On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come. And when I arrive, I will send those whom you accredit by letter to carry your gift to Jerusalem.” Edited July 19, 2019 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted July 19, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 8:49 PM, GandalfTheWise said: My response was specifically referring to the overly broad accusations about Christian schools being for profit and making money for churches. In my country Catholic schools are expensive and only middle to upper class can afford it, but i did not say its wrong because the Catholic use the profit to do many charity in this city, such as opening a free medical and dental clinic with free medicine for poor people, opening a free nursing home for elders (no pay). The Catholic church never demand tithe from people. They are clever to open schools and make profit to finance their operation. Its different with Protestant Christian expensive schools. The poor people are not able to be educated there. In return they give almost nothing for people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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