Confused about The Message

[Blessedknitter]

Ok, I’m not even sure if this is ok to post. I have read the terms of service and statement of faith and haven’t found anything to say it isn’t but I’m open to being corrected. Also it’s a long post so a pre emptive thank you to those who give their time to read it.

I was brought up in a Christadelphian family. My mother was a member of the ecclesia, my father was a believer but as he has been divorced had been excluded. My mother died when I was 13 and by then my father had already moved in with my step mum who went to the local Church of England with my Dad, at this point my faith had vanished.

As an adult I’ve believed in ‘God’ but resisted any kind of faith in the Christian path until recently. A difficult situation led me to re examine my faith and led me to Jesus. My father is now firmly back in the Christadelphian ecclesia and has been helping me with my bible studies and I now want to be baptised. However, I discovered yesterday that the Christadelphian faith is viewed as a cult and that not upholding the trinity is seen as blasphemous. I really want to find the true path to Jesus so need guidance. I don’t want to be part of something that causes harm. I am praying around it and would appreciate your wisdom too.

[Michael37]

2 minutes ago, Blessedknitter said:

Ok, I’m not even sure if this is ok to post. I have read the terms of service and statement of faith and haven’t found anything to say it isn’t but I’m open to being corrected. Also it’s a long post so a pre emptive thank you to those who give their time to read it.

I was brought up in a Christadelphian family. My mother was a member of the ecclesia, my father was a believer but as he has been divorced had been excluded. My mother died when I was 13 and by then my father had already moved in with my step mum who went to the local Church of England with my Dad, at this point my faith had vanished.

As an adult I’ve believed in ‘God’ but resisted any kind of faith in the Christian path until recently. A difficult situation led me to re examine my faith and led me to Jesus. My father is now firmly back in the Christadelphian ecclesia and has been helping me with my bible studies and I now want to be baptised. However, I discovered yesterday that the Christadelphian faith is viewed as a cult and that not upholding the trinity is seen as blasphemous. I really want to find the true path to Jesus so need guidance. I don’t want to be part of something that causes harm. I am praying around it and would appreciate your wisdom too.

Hi Blessedknitter. So far there you haven't violated Terms or disagreed with the Statement of Faith here. You will find Christadelphians completely opposed to our concept of the Trinity so take care not to get embroiled in arguments with them about it, but please do ask specific questions on this forum that will help you understand Trinitarian beliefs. 

[Who me]

May I suggest checking out the christianityexplored web site for a church in your area that runs this course.

It commits you to nothing other than attending the next meeting and gives you the oppertunity to discuss Christianity.

Otherwise start attending the nearest of these churches and ask questions of the preacher. Most minister are happy to talk with anyone who is seeking answers.

[Tzephanyahu]

Shalom @Blessedknitter

Thank you for sharing your story.

I try to live by the following guidelines, and perhaps it will help you at this time also.

1. Stay away from labels

Even 'Christian' is a label, but it's the only one I'm happy to bare.  Any church or group who endeavour to separate themselves because they "have it right", is often bad news.  The Christadelphian movement didn't start until the 19th century.  So, are we to think that God let millions of Christians suffer with the wrong teachings and guidance until the founder, John Thomas, came along in the 1800s?  It doesn't seem likely.  It seems more likely to be another spin-off from Christianity, even though I'm sure most of the people within are good people.  Groups and divisions break-off over the sake of doctrinal issues.  A family should stay together despite this.

2. Read the Bible with no preconceived ideas.

Whether it's your first or fifteenth time, read the Bible assuming nothing.  This is harder than it sounds.  However, if you constantly read the Bible, with no preconceived ideas whatsoever - you will find the truth.  Lose the ideas you have in your mind of what you've been taught about God, angels, Jesus, Noah's Ark, King David and basically forget all the Sunday school images, art and assumptions you have made.  Read the Bible each time like you are the first person to find this Book of Wonder, and you will find the truth.  Then,  see if what you are being taught matches with the Bible.  If you need more time, let your dad know and even delay your baptism, until you're 100% sure.  I'm sure God will understand you delaying for this cause.  

Now, if you need any help understanding any part of the Bible at, or Christian viewpoints on this or that - feel free to contact me directly or post it in this forum.  Whichever is more comfortable for you.  But always keep asking, seeking and knocking. 

Love & Shalom

 

[Blessedknitter]

Thank you all for your input. After having read your posts and suggestions I feel full of relief. My husband and I have been attending services at our local Church (non Christadelphian) and have found them very inspiring and they feel ‘right’. Yes, I’m thinking I need to avoid a label, and will read my Bible with openminded joy. I do believe God will direct me in the right way as long as I remain teachable. Your input has been invaluable, I am most grateful

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, Blessedknitter said:

Ok, I’m not even sure if this is ok to post. I have read the terms of service and statement of faith and haven’t found anything to say it isn’t but I’m open to being corrected. Also it’s a long post so a pre emptive thank you to those who give their time to read it.

I was brought up in a Christadelphian family. My mother was a member of the ecclesia, my father was a believer but as he has been divorced had been excluded. My mother died when I was 13 and by then my father had already moved in with my step mum who went to the local Church of England with my Dad, at this point my faith had vanished.

As an adult I’ve believed in ‘God’ but resisted any kind of faith in the Christian path until recently. A difficult situation led me to re examine my faith and led me to Jesus. My father is now firmly back in the Christadelphian ecclesia and has been helping me with my bible studies and I now want to be baptised. However, I discovered yesterday that the Christadelphian faith is viewed as a cult and that not upholding the trinity is seen as blasphemous. I really want to find the true path to Jesus so need guidance. I don’t want to be part of something that causes harm. I am praying around it and would appreciate your wisdom too.

I am quite rusty on this. The Christian Research Institute founded by the late Dr. Walter Martin may have resources to answer your questions about Christadelphian beliefs and their founding. If memory serves, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) essentially based their beliefs on much of the Christadelphian beliefs. Christadelphians wiki. Martin's book "Kingdom of the Cults" is a good read and mentions Christadelphians  as I recall. 

[JohnD]

As important as Trinitarian  theology it, it is more important that we all believe in the genuine Jesus Christ.

Trinitarian theology is one of the most important evidences that we in fact believe in the genuine Jesus. But it

is not the end of our faith but the means to the end (which is faith in Jesus Christ who:

1. is God the Word incarnate
2. came to Earth in the ways prescribed by prophecy
3. died on the cross for the sins of humanity *
4. rose from the grave on the third day
5. ascended to heaven 40 days later
6. rules from heaven seated at the right hand of the Father
7. will return at the end of time

* 1 Timothy 4:10 / 1 John 2:2 do not indicate universalism (all humans are saved no matter what) but that all human beings

potentially have the opportunity to be saved. John 3:16-18 / Ephesians 2:8-10 and other places indicate that faith / belief in Jesus

activates our prepaid (in Christ's blood) account of forgiveness for all sin / salvation from eternal damnation / eternal life with Christ.

Only man and the devil want to tamper with this clear cut and easily verifiable (by scriptures) truth.

[JohnD]

The Jesus of the cults is not the Creator of all things created. 

John 1:3 (AV)
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Jesus of the cults is not eternal and was created by the Father.

Micah 5:2 (AV)
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Philippians 2:6 (AV)
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

The Greek for being in the form of God "morphe theos huparchon" meaning never ceasing to be God...

And how can one be equal with God without being God? When Jesus claimed to be equal with God the Jews (who did not believe him) tried to stone him for what they thought was blasphemy (John 5:18).

John 1:1–3 (AV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 (AV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 1:1–2 (AV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

Genesis 1:1–2 (AV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Highlighted in red is the Triune God (Trinity).

 

 

[JohnD]

Jesus (preincarnate) is the one who created all things created (John 1:3).

Colossians 1:13–16 (AV)
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Isaiah 44:24 (AV)
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

The preincarnate Jesus (God the Word) is the Creator. Genesis 1:1 is speaking of Jesus. The Father (1 John 1:2) and the Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2) were there. But God the Word acted along by himself in creating all things created. 

The Father's only creation (John 1:14b) is the body of the Son (that God the Word would become).

Hebrews 10:5 (AV)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Hebrews 1:5 (AV)
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

The Holy Spirit delivered the Holy Embryo to Mary:

Matthew 1:18–20 (AV)
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Some cults try to interpret this scripture as saying that the Father and the Holy Spirit are one and the same. But, you find this to be untrue when you factor in the distinction between the Father and the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) in passages like John 14:26 and John 15:26 in which both Jesus and the Father send the Holy Spirit into the world. If the Holy Spirit were either of them, the passage would not make sense. One does not send one's self. They come or they go. I do not send myself anywhere. 

Other cults claim the Holy Spirit is just the power of God and is not a person.

Acts 5:3–4 (AV)
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Acts 13:2 (AV)
2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Another confusing point (even for Christians) is how Jesus can be the only Son of God and yet Adam (in Luke 3:38) is called the son of God.

It goes to the distinction of persons withing the Godhead. Jesus is the Son of God the Father since the Father created his body. Jesus is God the Word in his Spirit.

Jesus (preincarnate) created all things including Adam. 

Jesus is the only Son of God the Father.

Adam is the son of God the Word.

And when we believe in the Son of the Father (Jesus Christ) we become sons and daughters of the Father by the adoption of sons.

Romans 8:15 (AV)
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

John 16:27 (AV)
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Billiards Ball]

6 hours ago, Blessedknitter said:

Ok, I’m not even sure if this is ok to post. I have read the terms of service and statement of faith and haven’t found anything to say it isn’t but I’m open to being corrected. Also it’s a long post so a pre emptive thank you to those who give their time to read it.

I was brought up in a Christadelphian family. My mother was a member of the ecclesia, my father was a believer but as he has been divorced had been excluded. My mother died when I was 13 and by then my father had already moved in with my step mum who went to the local Church of England with my Dad, at this point my faith had vanished.

As an adult I’ve believed in ‘God’ but resisted any kind of faith in the Christian path until recently. A difficult situation led me to re examine my faith and led me to Jesus. My father is now firmly back in the Christadelphian ecclesia and has been helping me with my bible studies and I now want to be baptised. However, I discovered yesterday that the Christadelphian faith is viewed as a cult and that not upholding the trinity is seen as blasphemous. I really want to find the true path to Jesus so need guidance. I don’t want to be part of something that causes harm. I am praying around it and would appreciate your wisdom too.

Your best bet is to keep doing what you've been doing--keep studying the same Bible which led you to trust Jesus for salvation--then you can make an informed decision about the trinity. Make sense?