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The real barbarians are modern men


Nadjeschda

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American Christians bemoan the horrible condition of our church system. We complain of dead churches, unregenerate believers, lack of Holy Spirit inspiration, and an overall sense of spiritual malaise. Yet, when you criticize any particular part of the church system, you get resistance. Somehow we are doing everything right while we complain that everything is wrong. 

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5 minutes ago, other one said:

are you speaking to me?

If you cite the following quote: "Judgmental and wrong. I am in strong chronic pain and can not answer this threat 24 hours around the clock." yes.

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I slowly get what is going wrong with rich US christians: they identify charity with socialism instead of Jesus. However socialism at best stole the concept from Jesus, who is the true inventor and master of it. But socialism is essentially god hating. You are giving socialism a great victory against god if you let it vail the origin of charity and destroy it's power in this way. 

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5 minutes ago, pg4Him said:

American Christians bemoan the horrible condition of our church system. We complain of dead churches, unregenerate believers, lack of Holy Spirit inspiration, and an overall sense of spiritual malaise. Yet, when you criticize any particular part of the church system, you get resistance. Somehow we are doing everything right while we complain that everything is wrong. 

Yes I saw such an attack from an american christian against other american christians once - on base of disinterest in social justice and suffering of others. I was not a real believer than and it was a powerfull moment in my conversion to stand side by side in an intelectual fight with a christian. However I am a fan of Franciscus of Assissi and things like prosperity church will always be a heresy for me.

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Please hear me @Nadjeschda the Bible does say laziness is a sin, and there are some people who don’t want to work. Paul confronted this in the early church.

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. — ‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭3:10-12‬

And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. — 1 Timothy‬ ‭5:13‬

The early church had rules on who could receive charity funds. Widows were rejected if they had other options.

I agree with you that most Western Christians are living in decadence with money that could be better spent. However, the solution is not to give money foolishly for causes or programs that don’t follow God’s ways.

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Than do not give to the lazy. There are so many other urgent causes besides donating to the lazy that beeing rich will always be a form of sinning. 

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Just now, Nadjeschda said:

Than do not give to the lazy. There are so many other urgent causes besides donating to the lazy that beeing rich will always be a form of sinning. 

Honestly, if we follow the Bible — what many don’t want to hear — is that our first priority should be helping other Christians. The apostles made sure that all widows and orphans in the faith were taken care of. We should be fair/respectful to unbelievers, but it isn’t our job to financially provide for them. When — and only when — the widows and orphans in the faith are well fed should we focus on outsiders.

There’s nothing in Scripture that tells us to use charity for evangelism.

We really have two separate problems. One is whether we are fair/just in our business dealings with unbelievers. We should be blameless in our business. We should pay fair wages, pay our bills on time, and never cheat or rob anyone. Charity, however, should mostly stay within the church.

American Christians are certainly willing to allow a corporation to pay slave wages on their behalf. I agree with you that this is a problem. Some Americans purchase fair-trade products to try to pay living wages in their business dealings, but not many. I do believe this brings a reproach on the church. Christian brethren toil in the sun for pennies an hour to pick our lettuce, and yet we claim we are in the same body. This is wrong. Some of us try to do our part to make better purchases.

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If you do not want to pay for unbelievers care for African Christs. They are starving like the flies. You always find a new group you don‘t want to care for - again as a read hearing strategy in my eyes to avoid the simple insight that Jesus told us that not caring for others is evil. Furthermore it seems you quoted that text of Timothy out of context:

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-Bible-say-if-you-dont-work-you-shouldnt-eat

Scroll down too Joe Devneys answer to see why. Funnily communism eagerly adopted this principle.

And I never said you should evangelize through bribing people. I say you do not even care for other believers and engage in a life style that is not spiritual because it focus on wordly treasures (all American Christians that sincerely engage in charity please ignore). THIS is what the atheist dissect and use against Christians - and very successfully.

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3 minutes ago, Nadjeschda said:

If you do not want to pay for unbelievers care for African Christs. They are starving like the flies. You always find a new group you don‘t want to care for - again as a read hearing strategy in my eyes to avoid the simple insight that Jesus told us that not caring for others is evil. Furthermore it seems you quoted that text of Timothy out of context:

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-Bible-say-if-you-dont-work-you-shouldnt-eat

Scroll down too Joe Devneys answer to see why. Funnily communism eagerly adopted this principle.

And I never said you should evangelize through bribing people. I say you do not even care for other believers and engage in a life style that is not spiritual because it focus on wordly treasures (all American Christians that sincerely engage in charity please ignore). THIS is what the atheist dissect and use against Christians - and very successfully.

Nadjeschda I am one of the very few people who came on this thread to help you, and you don’t seem appreciative. You assume I will find an excuse to reject African Christians. I agree with you that we need to be helping them. There should be no human barriers in the body of Christ. A Christian in Tanzania should feel loved and valued by the Christian body in California. We should be helping them so they don’t need help from secular governments.

However, you will find in America a large section of Christians who are American first and Christian second. It is impossible to separate their Americanism from their faith. This stems from a belief that America is some sort of special chosen nation with a Christian destiny. All things American are presumed to be Christian, or at least compatible with a Christian walk. This is why we maintain an immigrant class (many who are Christian brethren) and pay them pennies to pick our lettuce. American first, Christian second.

I agree with you about all of this. Don’t yell at me for it. I am only here to say that secular charity might please atheists yet is it isn’t the solution.

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2 hours ago, Nadjeschda said:

I slowly get what is going wrong with rich US christians: they identify charity with socialism instead of Jesus. However socialism at best stole the concept from Jesus, who is the true inventor and master of it. But socialism is essentially god hating. You are giving socialism a great victory against god if you let it vail the origin of charity and destroy it's power in this way. 

you need to come and visit what goes on within the USA and not just take what the news organization put out as they are motivated by pushing global government.   Our country is not and will never be a socialist country.     Your accusations as to  what the majority of US citizens do and think are extremely offensive....   just so you will know, the vast majority of people in the USA are nothing like what it promoted in the Main Stream Media.   That is the reason Donald John Trump was elected president and will be again next year.

 

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