Jostler Posted August 2, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Lee_ said: Are our sins legally paid for because He died for our sins (in the sense of 1 Corinthians 15:3)? Lee I'll dare to answer for Willa ...the answer is yes. As she pointed out, viewing His death and shed blood as a LEGAL transaction is perhaps the most explanatory lens to view this specific question through. And it's all through the Old Testament as well. God pronounced the LEGAL penalty for sin in the Garden and warned Adam that death would come the DAY he broke God's command. The OT expands on that, and indicates that only blood can atone for sin. I can dig up a few of those verses if you're interested, but the story is consistent and fully developed by the time Jesus presents Himself, and His blood as the ultimate, final answer that satisfies JUSTICE....in our behalf. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted August 2, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,204 Content Per Day: 3.35 Reputation: 16,629 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2019 Legally in God's eyes--not in our civil courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plo1988 Posted August 2, 2019 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2022 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Jostler said: Lee I'll dare to answer for Willa ...the answer is yes. As she pointed out, viewing His death and shed blood as a LEGAL transaction is perhaps the most explanatory lens to view this specific question through. And it's all through the Old Testament as well. God pronounced the LEGAL penalty for sin in the Garden and warned Adam that death would come the DAY he broke God's command. The OT expands on that, and indicates that only blood can atone for sin. I can dig up a few of those verses if you're interested, but the story is consistent and fully developed by the time Jesus presents Himself, and His blood as the ultimate, final answer that satisfies JUSTICE....in our behalf. Our sins are legally paid for because Jesus died for our sins and shed His blood for our sins? (did I get the shed blood part right?) Edited August 2, 2019 by plo1988 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted August 2, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2019 Just now, Lee_ said: Our sins are legally paid for because Jesus died for our sins and shed His blood for us? I believe that is exactly correct exactly as you stated it. God is just. And justice demands that a crime be paid for, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which is exactly where secular legal systems get the idea the punishment must fit the crime. If you can allow me a day I'd be happy to post some of the Scriptures that flesh out the support for the accuracy of exactly how you worded that...if you wish to see them. I'm a bit pressed for time right this minute....but I'd be happy to do it a bit later if you'd like to see more proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobleseed Posted August 3, 2019 Group: Members * Followers: 1 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 341 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 117 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2019 to sin means death, but when Jesus died he became our scapegoat for death, so we do not have to die, except for a mortals death, but we will live forever because of him, whenever we sin Jesus points to the cross to his father and says, do not hold him accountable, i have already atoned for that sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plo1988 Posted August 3, 2019 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2022 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 3, 2019 (edited) On 8/1/2019 at 10:16 PM, Jostler said: Lee I'll dare to answer for Willa ...the answer is yes. As she pointed out, viewing His death and shed blood as a LEGAL transaction is perhaps the most explanatory lens to view this specific question through. And it's all through the Old Testament as well. God pronounced the LEGAL penalty for sin in the Garden and warned Adam that death would come the DAY he broke God's command. The OT expands on that, and indicates that only blood can atone for sin. I can dig up a few of those verses if you're interested, but the story is consistent and fully developed by the time Jesus presents Himself, and His blood as the ultimate, final answer that satisfies JUSTICE....in our behalf. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins (am I correct about that?). Would it be correct to look at it that Jesus shed His blood so we wouldn't have to shed ours? Or is it a sacrificial thing, like without the shedding of the blood of a sacrifice there is no forgiveness of sins? Also does the shedding of blood imply that whatever is shedding the blood must die? Edited August 3, 2019 by plo1988 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted August 3, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Lee_ said: Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins (am I correct about that?). Heb 9:22 Indeed according to the law almost everything was purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Quote Would it be correct to look at it that Jesus shed His blood so we wouldn't have to shed ours? Heb 9:28 so also, after Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, to those who eagerly await him he will appear a second time, not to bear sin but to bring salvation. Quote Or is it a sacrificial thing, like without the shedding of blood of a sacrifice there is no forgiveness of sins? Both are true. His blood shed for us was a substitutionary sacrifice....His blood for ours. Also does the shedding of blood imply that whatever is shedding the blood must die? Yes Gen 9:5-6 “Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man." Lev 17:11 ‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’ Quote Rom 5:8-11 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Edited August 3, 2019 by Jostler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prycejosh1987 Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,176 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/29/1987 Share Posted July 12, 2020 On 7/20/2019 at 10:47 PM, Lee_ said: Could someone really break this down for me (or maybe more than one person)? Edit: Might not have used "atone for our sins" right because I guess maybe faith is also needed for our sins to be atoned for. He is a lamb, in the old testament most of the time a lamb was used in sacrifice for paying for sins. But Jesus did that and became an "everlasting lamb". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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