Partakers of the Divine Nature

[Kristin]

4 minutes ago, Jostler said:

 

rest, gaze, be dazzled.  Best beauty parlor in all creation

That’s what we need!  Nice thought. Love it. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Kristin

[Not me]

4 minutes ago, Jostler said:

i have a tendency to come at things from odd angles

Lol

I have thought that God’s one liners are going to be a hoot! 

Blessings, 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

[Jostler]

1 hour ago, Kristin said:

I want the prize!  It’s a good long race though. But God does it. We just be willing. 

Kristin, He  wants us far more than anything we can do for Him.  He so sincerely delights in working through  us, earning that prize FOR us, and honestly, all we have to do is want Him.

Sis, i was plagued by a NEED to have something in my hand to offer Him, so He could love me.  I kept trying to DO..and do...and do...and clean myself up...i'd repent of my  sins and DETERMINE i would not go back...and found myself returning to sin over and over and over.  Like a dog returns to it's own vomit..so will our flesh based, WILL-power based efforts to clean ourselves up ALWAYS end.

It grieves Him when we fail to realize He cannot love us any more than He does right now.  He gave ALL to have us.  There is no more love He can give.  That cross is the loudest shout of love this creation will ever hear.  He loves us because of who we are, thought of from before the  foundation of the world as someone, a UNIQUE someone He longed to fellowship with for all eternity.  And He knew every flaky, evil, selfish thing we'd ever do BEFORE He decided death was preferable to being denied our fellowship. 

You know what He did?  He broke me....He put me in a place where i knew I had nothing to offer at all and never would.  And right there, He began to speak kindly, to show me His love, and for the first time in my  life I began to FEEL what it meant to be loved.  In all my mess, feeling icky and nasty....He just loved me.

And He began to explain works to me with a parable.

I imagined a loving Father, a craftsman with a well appointed workshop and a son He loves.  This Father would invite His son into His workshop and show the boy his tools, explain them, teach safe  use.

Eventually He bought a kit to make a beautiful radio controlled airplane, and gave it to the  boy...having trained him in how to use the tools safely, He encouraged the boy to begin assembling the plane.  Letting the boy do most of the work, figuring out the instructions, making a start while Dad provided more instruction and oversight.

Now what's going on here?  Why is this Father inviting His son to do something He could do much faster and with much greater quality in the finished product?  He may genuinely look forward to the day He can fly that plane with His son, but its not about the plane.

It's an excuse to spend TIME with his son, and while the boy is all excited about the plane, He's gently sowing into the boy all the things he needs to grow into a healthy, productive adult who can one day be trusted with ALL the tools in the shop and become a craftsman in his own right.

While the boy is learning, gaining skills and confidence, Dad is teaching...and without the boy even realizing he's being taught, formed, molded...

He's not impressed by our works, nor is His love in the slightest  bit contingent on how well we do them.   Sure He's sowing in what we need to be producers of quality work, but if we muff it He'll just go get another kit and we can start over.   Dunno how many kits He's bought me so far....lost count.

But He delights in our PROCESS.  He knows the end already.  If He was depending on us He might get as worried as we tend to sometimes.  But He's not, He is FULLY confident in His great love for us, and power toward us, and ability to get us through and finish the good work He has begun in us.

He's not surprised at our stumbles, He knew we'd make them before we did.  There is no condemnation for us in Him.  Yes, if we rebel, like any  good Father He will discipline appropriately.  It hurts  too   But discipline is training in righteousness, it's never about wrath.  Wrath is never for the children.

I work with people now who so desperately need to know they are loved.  It grieves me  really, really badly when I see people claiming He will abandon us if we don't get it right....those I am close to really  need to know it's His grace that saves us and His love is sure.  His love  is the very earth...the soil...that holds our roots in place and nourishes us so we can grow.

Quote

Eph 3:16-19

that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height—to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

 

Quote

Rom 8:1-2

¶

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

 

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

All we have to do is believe.....and it's hard sometimes.  When we stumble shame will try to make us hide from Him and if we do we're hiding  from the only answer there is to the stumble.  Shame is a satanic counterfeit of the conviction of the  Holy Spirit.

Shame feels so similar to our experience, the only way we can tell the difference is by what  the feeling inspires us to do.  If we are inspired to run and hide from Him....its SHAME.   The Spirit's conviction is a Godly sorrow that drives us BACK into His presence because we're grieving over the broken fellowship that is grieving HIM!  And it only lasts as long as needed to bring us back to that place of repentance.

Shame and blame are both mind games the devil plays with our heads.

Quote

1Jo 1:9

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Thats a twenty second process....ten if you talk fast

But we struggle to believe it.....if shame comes in after repentance....it is NOT from Him.  What HE has cleansed let no man call unclean...not even you.

GET UP!  Don't wallow  in shame   He has applied His FINISHED work to our sin ...confess it and be done with it....He is.

It is shame and unbelief that traps us in flesh based willpower fights against sin.  And those fights we always lose.  confess and GET UP!

"But brother, I JUST confessed this same sin yesterday!  I went right back to it!"  

So?   1 John 1:9 is still His answer.  Do we believe it?  Confess it again, and again, and a stinkin' 'gin every time you  must and as often as you need to.  He WILL transform us so we come to a place of freedom from being drawn back to it.

We begin by fearing the consequences, He is just and to fear Him is the beginning  of wisdom.  But that is not the end of wisdom.  The HIGHEST wisdom is to love Him.  And when we get to that place where we KNOW we are loved, the battle against sin completely changes focus. He will bring us to a place where desires change and the relationship becomes so important, so precious, we don't sin because we don't want to mess this up!

We're no longer running from something....sin...we're running TO something beautiful.....

You go girl.....He loves you whether you manage to put any sin down permanently on this try or not...He always has and always will.

Quote

Jhn 15:13

“Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.

 

He loves us, and He PROVED it................ 2000 years before we were even born.

I got yer back sis....and I will have it...in prayer, as long as He keeps you on my  mind.  You are fighting the good fight...and not fighting it alone.

 

I dunno how to be short...I got more on my heart.  I might dump another little testimony in your thread later

Edited July 23, 2019 by Jostler

[Kristin]

Thank you for this. I am weeping. My own son just came here and how I love him must be similar. He doesn’t know tho. My life is broken. I’m glad to read this post. 

[Not me]

@Jostler

So much “dealings with God” shows in your post. Was a blessing to feed off of. The only thing that gave me pause was; “God loves us for who we are” I guess that could be true depending on the intent behind it. Thought it might be better stated “God loves us for who He is” for He is a God of love and can only give love for that is His Nature. Just thought I toss the thought out. 

Excellent read, 

Blessings, 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

[Jostler]

I think I see what you're saying, and wouldn't quibble with a line of it.  Maybe i should have said He loves us because we represent, each  of us, a personality He  longed to fellowship with for eternity, and shower His love  on us for all eternity as members of His own family.  Love does not, cannot force.  So His  own nature demanded He grant us the right  to CHOOSE to love Him back.  If the free will to choose Him is real, it logically demands the possibility of rejection.  If He takes back  the  right to choose He granted us because we chose what displeases Him and denies Him what He longed for when He  decided to create us, then it was not a free will to begin with. 

He knew Adam would  choose wrong.  By  then I guess satan already had.  His heavenly  sons had betrayed His love already.  He  knew that before  creating them too.  In an eternity where love demands a free will if the  beloved are to legitimately  CHOOSE to reciprocate that love, it's inevitable that someone, somewhere would eventually exercise that gift wrongly.  i dunno  why it  seems He didn't make the same redemptive  provision for His heavenly  sons.  i guess we'll learn that sometime  later.  We must learn it  at some point because He intends for us to stand in judgement of those heavenly sons at some point.

His LOVE allowed this 7000 year test and ALL that implies.  And i believe the wisdom He wishes to display in the eyes  of His heavenly host, THROUGH the church will prove to be so profound, that nobody at any  point in future eternity will ever be tempted  to abuse  their free will again.   I suspect that eternally expanding Kingdom of righteousness, peace, joy will be uninterrupted by sin ever  again.  Not because nobody CAN choose to sin any longer, but  because His wisdom is so clearly on display, nobody  will ever WANT to again.

The place we occupy in His  heart just  blows my mind.  He didn't create us to just become His little robots  for all eternity.  Instead He made us  sons, and co-heirs with  our Elder Brother???  To whom He gave ALL?  He formed mankind  in His  image and likeness knowing that He Himself would have to take on that very  form in order to  redeem Adam's mistake.   And that means He  CHOSE to become a man, and from that form rule and  reign over all His creation?   We are indeed a privileged part of His  creation.  All that "out there" in His cosmos, was created for us.  

In one place John described himself as the "the  disciple whom Jesus loved..."   and you  know that's good theology? 

I used to be able to perceive His sacrifice of love for OUR sakes, but couldn't see it  in any individual way.  I couldn't understand He  loved ME.  I felt like a face in the  crowd,  blessed indeed but really kinda faceless, nameless....beneficiary of a tremendous love but not really personally.  Until He told me

"Don't you know you're My favorite?"

I  didn't believe He  meant it for a while.  I couldn't comprehend it.  But it's true and when we understand we're His favorite, and so is everybody else, we can come to understand I AM His favorite Jostler, and you  are His favorite Not Me.  And so is everyone else.  He only has one copy  of each of us.  And each is precious to  His desire to  shower love on us and be loved by us for all eternity.  John  understood.  He wasn't taking a thing away from anyone else when realizing "Hey, over  here, I'm the one Jesus loves...."

But that's the  overwhelming revelation that takes us from perceiving we're just a face in the crowd in His heart.  He KNOWS us  inside and out because that's what love does.  And did you ever stop to think that maybe that desire, to be fully known and fully  loved for WHO we are, is a reflection of His own desire to be known and loved back?  It's part of the likeness of Himself He designed into us.

I'll hush  

[Not me]

@Jostler

Don't hush Jostler,  I love your posts! For in them can Christ be found. 

Your personal relationship with Christ shows in your posts and it is that which can and does feed. 

If I might toss a thought out of why salvation was and cannot be offered to the fallen angels;

Because they are eternal creatures that can never die. 

This is why in the garden God put an Angel to guard the Tree of Life so Adam could not eat from it and become like the fallen angels being a eternal creature that could never die having a fallen nature.

For God knew that only the creature having the ability to die could the creature be freed from it. 

This is why Christ took us to death with Him on the cross so that by our deaths might we be freed from our fallen nature, than by being born again of the incorruptible seed could the Divine Nature be birthed in us, which nature never sins.

Anyways, thought I’d toss the thought out and let you chew on it a bit and see what the Lord does with it. 

Blessings much loved of God.

 Much love in Christ, Not me 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Not me

[Jostler]

1 minute ago, Not me said:

@Jostler

Don't hush Jostler,  I love your posts! For in them can Christ be found. 

Your personal relationship with Christ shows in your posts and it is that which can and does feed. 

If I might toss a thought out of why salvation was and cannot be offered to the fallen angels;

Because they are eternal creatures that can never die. 

This is why in the garden God put an Angel to guard the Tree of Life so Adam could not eat from it and become like the fallen angels have a fallen nature that could never die. 

For God knew that only the fallen nature having the ability to die could the creature be freed from it. 

This is why Christ took us to death with Him on the cross to put to death that fallen nature, than by being born again of the incorruptible seed could the Divine Nature be birthed in us, which nature never sins.

Anyways, thought I’d toss the thought out and let you chew on it a bit and see what the Lord does with it. 

Blessings much loved of God.

 Much love in Christ, Not me 

 

But they will die, like men.  We really need to think through the fact there are two kinds of death....and let context reveal which kind He is speaking to.

And recognize that  nowhere  does He equate either death with extinguished consciousness... and both deaths come in stages.  We were born dead...totally cut off from the  life  and presence of God, this  death, spiritual death, is not "final" in it's full expression  until after the  Judgement  and those who ARE dead are thrown into it.  Angels cannot die  the first death  because  they  don't possess  physical, three dimensional bodies.  But they  will die the  second death...

Psalm 82 is a picture of God passing judgement on His rebellious  heavenly sons.  It  is a picture  of the  Divine  Court passing sentence on the  lawless ones who rejected Him, and the responsibility He  gave them to represent Him to the  "nations" who  didn't want Him.

 

Quote

Psa 82:1

¶

A Psalm of Asaph.

God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.

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.

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Psa 82:6-7

I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.

But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”

We can discern a few things about their  rebellion  He  is standing in judgement  of from the rest of the  Psalm.  And  by  drawing in other passages that also reveal events that took place in that "Divine  Counsel/Court" setting.

All that is a HUGE study  alone, but  Michael  Heiser has done  a lot  of good  work in that whole realm of restoring our   understanding  of the OT worldview...and  it matters a lot.

We are hampered by a general uneasiness with  that OT worldview and the  fact that the Bible does talk about other "gods".   Somewhere along the line  we got the idea eloyhim is one of God's names, but it isn't.  Fear of portraying a polytheistic pantheon seems to be at the root of failing  to just read and understand the original texts as written.  He IS the "most high" eloyhim but that's a class of being, not a name.  He is the  ONE God above all....singular and there is none other.   Creator of all that is not Him...including these lesser "sons" who share in the "disembodied spirit" class which Father is.

I've speculated that  perhaps the  angel's fall was from a place so full of light, love and life, literally beholding the Father's face, that there simply is no excuse?  Best guess I've come up with so far...but whatever  the  reason proves to be the fact is He  placed His image into mankind, not the heavenly host and He chose to manifest Himself in that form, redeem that form and inhabit it Himself for eternity.

Big subject, but I think He did  raise up a  man like Michael Heiser to restore understanding of the OT worldview we've lost  over the  generations...because we need it to understand what is about to unfold.

We're on the  cusp of closing  out this age and entering that final 1000yr "day" that  completes this demonstration of His wisdom.  And ushering the physical, three dimensional manifestation of  the Kingdom now within us...the one that will never again cease or be replaced.  The stone that crushes the feet of iron mixed  with miry clay and topples the kingdoms of this world, eventually crushing them all to powder.  Lots to do here  very soon...

 

 

[Not me]

@Jostler

Interesting thoughts. 

Blessings, 

Much love in Christ, Not me

[Kristin]

@JostlerI’m reading through this and I don’t repost because it’s tiresome to read through yards text. But you said something about God’s heavenly or angelic family didn’t love him. I wanted to point out 2/3 still do!  Just a thought. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Kristin