The Whore of Babylon (fake Christianity)

[Revelation Man]

On 7/24/2019 at 1:20 AM, R. Hartono said:

There was not yet any church in the time of Jewish saints of old how could there come a fake christianity at the OT time.

 

False Religion is the Harlot....that is why Babylon is on her FOREHEAD. Abomination is on her FOREHEAD. Mother of Harlots and Mystery are on her head. Everytime a Jewish King killed a Prophet because he said thus saith the Lord, you have sinned, that was the Harlot Religion killing a Prophet or Saint. Every Jew the Babylonians killed {like they tried to kill Abednigo, Meshiac etc. etc.} was via the Harlot Religious slut. If they served the REAL God, they wouldn't have tried to kill these Jews who were serving God !! The Jewish Kings served false gods many, many times and killed their own Jewish Saints. When Antiochus killed 80,000 Jews, that was the Harlot Religion of Zeus murdering the Saints !! False Religion has the blood of THE SAINTS...........AND.............The Martyrs of Jesus !! Why do you think both are named ? Because the Harlot killed on both sides of the cross. 

On 7/24/2019 at 1:20 AM, R. Hartono said:

 Did you overlook the Inquisition ?

 

I never said the RCC can't be a part of the Harlot, OR that some ill mannered, evil Kings who took over the RCC reigns at times didn't kill people. BUT, the Church of England murdered people too !! RIGHT ? They tortured people and made them say they were Witches !! They killed Religious people which is why the Puritans fled to America. I said the Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION of ALL TIME, including Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Witchcraft, Zeus worship, Baal Worship, ANY IDOL that one worships, or any false god they serve. Whereas you leave all them out and just say...its the RCC which it can't be. It might also be the Mormons, or the hierarchy of the RCC at times, maybe not now, maybe some now......that isn't the point, I am calling it what it actually is, ALL FALSE RELIGION of ALL TIME !! You are limiting it, leaving off the Largest False Religion of all time, Islam, who have killed/murdered like 150 million people in the last 1400 years. So I overlook nothing, not even the Church of England's Actions. You see, I see the Governments/Kings more at fault for those actions, the Kings got too involved in these Religions. Some/many Popes were evil, but many preachers today turn evil/pedophile etc. so men must answer for their own sins. But the Harlot = ALL FALSE RELIGION in the end. You can be an EVIL person but still preach Christ Crucified, Jesus even called these people out and said they might to "GREAT THINGS" in his name, like heal people, but he will tell them to depart from me for I never knew you. In other words they served the TRUE God, but were evil at heart, thus you can be both according to Jesus, thus the Harlot Religion doesn't equate to one being evil per se. It equates to whom one is serving, and even if many Popes were evil, they were preaching Christ Crucified. 

On 7/24/2019 at 1:20 AM, R. Hartono said:

 The worship of Mary as mother of God ? and praying to her and saints ?

 

I don't agree with this practice per se, but that is a different opinion, we have different opinions from Methodists etc. Calvinists etc. That still wouldn't make the RCC the HARLOT, because it has to be ALL FALSE RELIGION.

On 7/24/2019 at 1:20 AM, R. Hartono said:

 The claim to forgive people sin on behalf of God ?

 

Again, that is their beliefs, and that is just the Pope right ? So only he does it, I guess.....but the RCC still can't be ALL FALSE RELIGION. You are creating a false premise by a having somewhat "tunnel vision" brother, we need to see the Harlot for who she is IN FULL.

On 7/24/2019 at 1:01 AM, R. Hartono said:

LORD JESUS DID NOT SEND ANY MESSAGE TO THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH WHO CLAIMED AS THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER. IN OTHER WORDS THERE IS NO CONFIRMATION FROM JESUS.

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

This message was given to apostle John circa 85 AD which was the era of the EARLY CHURCH OF THE APOSTLES where there were only few churches compared to our present era. At that time Pope Anacletus was in charge of RCC as the 2nd pope.

CATHOLIC CLAIMS AS THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER WHO ESTABLISHED ONE TRUE APOSTOLIC CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT UNITE ALL CHRISTIANS.
If apostle Peter established the Roman Catholic Church why there is no confirmation from Lord Jesus in His messages to churches ? There is no star and candle light representing the RCC.

All that is irrelevant.....the RCC can't be the Harlot because the HARLOT = All False Religion of ALL TIME.

HINT: the Mormons can be a small part of it, as can others, as might the RCC Hierarchy, but it can' be THE HARLOT, Islam is the largest part of the Harlot followed by all other false religions down through history. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Revelation Man

[existential mabel]

0k then if you go on the theory that the church is a false religion then just who is the restrainer then?

[Revelation Man]

49 minutes ago, existential mabel said:

0k then if you go on the theory that the church is a false religion then just who is the restrainer then?

ANYTHING can be a False Religion, all it has to be is Anti-God. But the Harlot is all False Religions, not just the Church, and MOSTLY Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism now, but its all false religion of all time. 

As per the Restrainer, it's the Church with the Holy Spirit working through us that Restrains the Beast from coming forth. We {Church} turned Rome from a Beast into a Conveyor belt of the Gospel. Jesus told Peter that the Gates of hell can't prevail against the Church. The BEAST SYSTEM was stymied for nigh 2000 years until just after the Rapture, then the BEAST will return. 

Thus the Restrainer is TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY !! The DEPARTURE of the Church is what 2 Thess. 2 means, not the Departure from the faith. 

[JoeCanada]

17 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

ANYTHING can be a False Religion, all it has to be is Anti-God. But the Harlot is all False Religions, not just the Church, and MOSTLY Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism now, but its all false religion of all time. 

As per the Restrainer, it's the Church with the Holy Spirit working through us that Restrains the Beast from coming forth. We {Church} turned Rome from a Beast into a Conveyor belt of the Gospel. Jesus told Peter that the Gates of hell can't prevail against the Church. The BEAST SYSTEM was stymied for nigh 2000 years until just after the Rapture, then the BEAST will return. 

Thus the Restrainer is TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY !! The DEPARTURE of the Church is what 2 Thess. 2 means, not the Departure from the faith. 

Hi RM,

What is the restrainer restraining? “That he might be revealed in his time.” Who’s “he?” “that Wicked,” who is revealed when the restrainer is out of the way. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-10 He’s not Satan because, his “coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

So the restrainer is holding back the pre-dragon-powered human antichrist-to-be from revealing himself by, “opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” This is at the abomination of desolation. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 The dragon isn’t cast to earth until Michael and his angels defeat him in heaven. If Lucifer is cast out of heaven, then that’s where he is now. He sits before the throne accusing us. Revelation 12:10 Christ is our advocate. 1 John 2:1-5 He will be cast out of heaven soon. Revelation 12:7-13 This confirms that currently, the restrainer is not restraining Lucifer, but the soon-to-be antichrist.

The answer to the question of who the restrainer is lies in the Old Testament in a parallel verse to the revealing of the man of sin. Matthew 24:15-22 This event is unparalleled in all of history, so we can define it that way. What is the event in which the removal of the restrainer causes? The abomination of desolation, the revealing of the antichrist. This is the beginning of the great tribulation, “such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The time of Jacob’s trouble, great tribulation, starts when Michael stands up. This is the abomination of desolation, the revealing of the man of sin. This is also the time in which the redemption of the children of Daniel’s people, the Israelites, takes place.

What’s even more interesting is that Daniel 12 is connected to Revelation 12 around this same subject, Michael, and same time-frame.

Revelation 12:7-9
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

It is the dragon which gives the beast his power. Michael is currently holding back the revealing of the antichrist.

To have the church removed before the Great Tribulation is preposterous. It will be their greatest time of need. God will use the church as witnesses for Him. Who else will there be? 

The Jews?......hardly

Those that come to faith in Him during the tribulation?......Where will they get their power from if the Holy Spirit is removed?

God said He would "pour out His Spirit in the last days".....not remove Him. ( Acts 2:17, Joel 2:28)

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi RM,

What is the restrainer restraining? “That he might be revealed in his time.” Who’s “he?” “that Wicked,” who is revealed when the restrainer is out of the way. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-10 He’s not Satan because, his “coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

So the restrainer is holding back the pre-dragon-powered human antichrist-to-be from revealing himself by, “opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” This is at the abomination of desolation. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 The dragon isn’t cast to earth until Michael and his angels defeat him in heaven. If Lucifer is cast out of heaven, then that’s where he is now. He sits before the throne accusing us. Revelation 12:10 Christ is our advocate. 1 John 2:1-5 He will be cast out of heaven soon. Revelation 12:7-13 This confirms that currently, the restrainer is not restraining Lucifer, but the soon-to-be antichrist.

The answer to the question of who the restrainer is lies in the Old Testament in a parallel verse to the revealing of the man of sin. Matthew 24:15-22 This event is unparalleled in all of history, so we can define it that way. What is the event in which the removal of the restrainer causes? The abomination of desolation, the revealing of the antichrist. This is the beginning of the great tribulation, “such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

Most everything here is correct on the merits, but I think we diverge on the understandings in varying degrees. For starters, the Beast is indeed a Man, and Satan has tried many times to bring him forth, Hitler was one of those ventures. We must remember, Satan is over all Kingdoms of this world, just as he pointed out to Jesus in Luke chapter 4. The prince of Persia that RESISTED Michael in Daniel 10 was a Demon named Apollyon, so the affairs of men are many times determined via the Spirit World. God mandated that Alexander the Great come to power, Satan resisted through Apollyon, but to no avail. 

 

The Abomination of Desolation is not the same as the Conquering of the Holy People, one happens 1290 days BEFORE the Second Coming Ends all these Wonders, the other happens 1260 days before this happens. I know what Paul says, but Paul was not Daniel or John, and I defer to them o this subject, they were given direct Angelic info or in Johns case a Message straight from God via Jesus. The Anti-Christ can sit in the Temple without that being the SPECIFIC EVENT that kicks off the AoD Fleeing of the Jews Event. So Paul isn't as specific IMHO, because it's not his main calling, whereas Daniel and John were called to reveal End Time Events, specifically. If John or Daniel gave a vague rapture reference we would defer to Paul. But the gist is, the AC can sit in the Temple, but that doesn't have to be {and isn't} what kicks off the AoD.

The restrainer holds back Satan from bring HIS MAN Forth, Satan doesn't care who it is. But Satan gives him HIS SEAT & Power. 

10 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

The time of Jacob’s trouble, great tribulation, starts when Michael stands up. This is the abomination of desolation, the revealing of the man of sin. This is also the time in which the redemption of the children of Daniel’s people, the Israelites, takes place.

What’s even more interesting is that Daniel 12 is connected to Revelation 12 around this same subject, Michael, and same time-frame.

Yes the time of troubles does start at that time, but the AoD starts 30 days before that. It gives the Jews a 30 day window to Flee Judea. 

10 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Michael is currently holding back the revealing of the antichrist.

To have the church removed before the Great Tribulation is preposterous. It will be their greatest time of need. God will use the church as witnesses for Him. Who else will there be? 

The Jews?......hardly

Those that come to faith in Him during the tribulation?......Where will they get their power from if the Holy Spirit is removed?

God said He would "pour out His Spirit in the last days".....not remove Him. ( Acts 2:17, Joel 2:28)

The Church with the Holy Spirit working through it is indeed what holds back the Satan from bringing the Man of Sin to power.

The REMNANT CHURCH will be on earth. 

I can prove 100 percent there has to be a Rapture, Rev. 12:15-17 proves that. 

The REMNANT....Who is it ? What is a Remnant ? A small part of THE WHOLE. So who is the Remnant that Satan/ the Dragon goes after ? Well it can't be the Jews who Repented {1/3} can it ? God Protects them in Petra {the Woman who Flee} for 1260 days. It can't be the 2/3 of the Jews who do not repent thus they can't KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God nor can they have the Testimony of Jesus Christ as verse 17 says. SO !!!!! It can't be the Jews can it ? So it can ONLY BE the Gentile Church !! Thus if it's a REMNANT and it is called that, that means the Church HAS TO BE in Heaven !! There can;t be a Remnant unless there is a Rapture !! 

The Bible says the Angel Preaches the Gospel unto mankind. 

The Holy Spirit is not the Restrainer, the Church is, and it restrains via the Holy Spirit working through it....this dynamic can be taken away without the Holy Spirit leaving, the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, of course he doesn't leave the earth, but his Earthly vessel does. So I agree the Restrainer is not the Holy Spirit, its the Church.