The pre-wrath and pre- trib rapture views

[The Light]

4 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Light,

Can you please clarify....and add some supporting scriptures for:

B- and can you explain what you mean by "Israel goes through the wrath of God, but the Jews are raptured  pre-wrath"

Thanks bro 

Hi Joe,

I'll try to clarify part B but I would probably have to write a complete book to explain it. Reason being is that are so many incorrect conclusions that have been drawn because of lack of knowledge of what occurs during the 70th week and what occurs during the Wrath of God.

Everything that is going to occur regarding the end times will likely occur on a Jewish feast day. Many Biblical scholars think that the spring feasts have been fulfilled. However, I don't believe this is true because there has been no harvest. Pentecost is a harvest feast. I think the Church will be raptured on Pentecost. When that happens God will turn his attention toward the Jews.

They will likely understand what has happened as there will be 144,000 spreading the truth across the world to the Jews that are across the earth.

Jer 8

²⁰ The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

There will be 144,000 first fruits, 12,000 from each tribe. First fruits are a guarantee of a harvest. If the first fruits were pumpkins, we know the harvest will be pumpkins. Since we know that the first fruits are 12,000 from each tribe, we know that the harvest will be the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth. So we can conclude that the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth will be raptured on the Feast of Trumpets, the time of the fall fruit harvest. This will occur just prior to the wrath of God.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

So for the Church, the goodman will not know when the thief will come.

Matt 24

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

However, the twelve tribes will know exactly when Jesus is coming and the Day of the Lord will begin.

1 Thes 5

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

² For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

³ For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

⁴ But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

So none of Gods people experience His wrath. The Church will be raptured pre trib. The 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth will be raptured pre wrath. Those in the nation of Israel that flee when the abomination of desolation is set up will go through Gods wrath in a place of safety.

 

[luigi]

While I agree that the Lord's church will not experience His wrath that will befall the beast's worshippers; nevertheless, prior to when the beast ascends there are extremely bad times on earth.

And this is just a global the first tribulation. Things then become good again during the beasts reign, but after the beasts 3.5 years, when the beasts system commences to implode, somehow, someway; the Lord commences to gather His church from the four winds and has them transported to the Middle East.

After some time in the Middle East, while the Lord's wrath has been falling upon the beast's worshippers throughout the world (Rev 16); the beast then decides to invade the Middle East at a place called Armageddon (Rev 16:16).

Blessed is he who then keeps his garments clean in this test (Revelation 16:15), as many of these remnant saints I believe are part in this first harvest in Revelation 14:13-16, while the latter harvest represent they whom the Lord's wrath falls upon in Revelation 14:17-20.

 

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

 

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

²⁰ And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.