Jump to content
IGNORED

The seven heads and the harlot atop them


dhchristian

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  136
  • Topics Per Day:  0.08
  • Content Count:  2,488
  • Content Per Day:  1.43
  • Reputation:   1,325
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/29/2019
  • Status:  Offline

8 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Have you thought the 8th king maybe Satan.  He once was a guardian cherub, Now since his fall, he no longer is one, and he will go into perdition (Lake of Fire) and be no more.

Actually, Satan is chained for a thousand years and then loosed before he is cast into the Lake of fire. Since he is an eternal being, he will continue to be in hell for all eternity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  40
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  2,143
  • Content Per Day:  0.47
  • Reputation:   220
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  10/18/2011
  • Status:  Offline

35 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Have you thought that Satan maybe the rider of the 1st Seal (given a bow, crown and a time to conquer) being kicked out of Heaven for the last time after the A/D was set up.  Then pursues the woman (Israel) for 42 months.

The rider of the white horse is the arch villain of the endtimes - which I prefer to call him instead of the Antichrist, because all of the prophecies about the person in Revelation are about him in the role of being the King of the Roman Empire of the end times.   Differently, being the  Antichrist has to do with him being the King of Israel, for a while.

It could be argued that on the white horse, he is either in the transitional role of being the prince who shall come, to be thought by the Jews as the arriving messiah.    Or actually in the role of having been anointed (given a crown) by the false prophet as the King of Israel.

Marv, it real easy to understand the seals cover the seven year seventieth week.    Revelation 6-19 cover the events during that seventieth week as well.

What makes it so easy to understand is that Ezekiel 38-39 gives a condensed view of the 70th week.    Which Gog/Magog leads into it, and the 7 years following are the 70th week, ending by Armageddon Ezekiel 39:17-20, and Ezekiel 39:21-29 is actually Jesus Himself speaking in the text have returned to earth.

The only thing we have to keep straight is when the person is the Antichrist (by being the King of Israel instead of Jesus) and when the person is the King of the Roman Empire.

The imagery of the heads and horns, in Revelation, is about the person as the King of the Roman Empire end times.     So everything in Revelation is about him being the King of the Roman Empire end times.

Associate the Antichrist - King of Israel (the another that Jesus said the Jews would embrace).    Associate the Little horn and beast - King of the Roman Empire.   Same person, different roles.  Everything will fall into place then.

Basically the guy becomes leader of the EU (little horn).   Then following Gog/Magog, the Jews, Israel, thinks the person is the messiah (Antichrist).   Then he betrays them selling out to Satan (son of perdition).  They reject him.  And he goes back to being the leader of the EU again (beast).

Edited by douggg
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  40
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  2,143
  • Content Per Day:  0.47
  • Reputation:   220
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  10/18/2011
  • Status:  Offline

42 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

The problem with this interpretation is that there are literally over a Hundred Caesars in the Roman Empire. What causes the timeline to Jump to end times? Just because Nero is the sixth Caesar does not mean anything. And the fact that Nero died in 68 Ad , well before John was exiled on Patmos and received his vision, and even before the temple was destroyed. Meaning that Nero was not who John was talking about as the one who is.

The five consecutive names I listed are family related, of the Julio Claudian family.    Nero was the last of that family line.   https://www.bing.com/search?q=nero+last+of+the+julio+claudian+dynasty&qs=AS&pq=nero+last+of+the+ju&sk=AS1&sc=2-19&cvid=DB789A1AA11F4576B7839FE5C6BC0ABD&FORM=QBLH&sp=2&ghc=1

There is debate over when Revelation was received by John.   In Nero's time, or at a later date.    The argument stems around hear-say evidence.

The 7th king jumps to the end times because there was no Julio-Claudian kings of the Roman Empire following Nero.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  40
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  2,143
  • Content Per Day:  0.47
  • Reputation:   220
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  10/18/2011
  • Status:  Offline

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Have you thought that Satan maybe the rider of the 1st Seal (given a bow, crown and a time to conquer) being kicked out of Heaven for the last time after the A/D was set up.  Then pursues the woman (Israel) for 42 months.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv,  in Revelation 12 when Satan is cast down to earth from heaven.    It is not referring to the third heaven where God and the holy angels dwell, but the second heaven the universe, also called the cosmos.

There is connection with the Abomination of Desolation being setup, though.   In Revelation 12:6, the Jews have begun fleeing into the wilderness because the Abomination of Desolation has been setup.    And in Revelation 11, the two witnesses are battling with the beast, which we can presume as the Jews are fleeing out of town.

Once the two witnesses are killed on day 1260, and come back to life called up to heaven - their being killed is the last straw, and the 7th trumpet sounds, to start taking the kingdoms of this world from under Satan's stranglehold.

So that is when we get that war in heaven (the second heaven) you are talking about.   In Revelation 12:14, it says Satan will at that point have the time, times, half times left as the noose tightens.

But the rider on the white horse in not Satan, and is actually at the start of the 7 years, not at the middle of it.      Satan is cast down in the middle of the 7 years.

 

Edited by douggg
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  19
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  3,131
  • Content Per Day:  0.69
  • Reputation:   1,091
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  11/03/2011
  • Status:  Offline

1 hour ago, douggg said:

Marv,  in Revelation 12 when Satan is cast down to earth from heaven.    It is not referring to the third heaven where God and the holy angels dwell, but the second heaven the universe, also called the cosmos.

There is connection with the Abomination of Desolation being setup, though.   In Revelation 12:6, the Jews have begun fleeing into the wilderness because the Abomination of Desolation has been setup.    And in Revelation 11, the two witnesses are battling with the beast, which we can presume as the Jews are fleeing out of town.

Once the two witnesses are killed on day 1260, and come back to life called up to heaven - their being killed is the last straw, and the 7th trumpet sounds, to start taking the kingdoms of this world from under Satan's stranglehold.

So that is when we get that war in heaven (the second heaven) you are talking about.   In Revelation 12:14, it says Satan will at that point have the time, times, half times left as the noose tightens.

But the rider on the white horse in not Satan, and is actually at the start of the 7 years, not at the middle of it.      Satan is cast down in the middle of the 7 years.

 

Precisely, Satan is cast down in the middle of the last seven.  He is angelic,  The A/C is not angelic.  Since the A/C is not angelic, he cannot be the rider of the 1st Seal coming out of heaven.  Satan is angelic, so he can be the rider of the 1st Seal.  The Two Witnesses appear just before mid-week, their appearance is what prompts the A/C to set up the A/D.  Satan kills the Two Witnesses before Armageddon.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  74
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  1,238
  • Content Per Day:  0.55
  • Reputation:   669
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/26/2018
  • Status:  Offline

8 hours ago, dhchristian said:

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. (Rev 17:9-11)

The Key to understanding this prophecy is that the woman sits on the seven heads. There are seven kings/ kingdoms that this woman sits on.

At the time John received this vision, he stated clearly that "one is" which is the Roman empire. Thus we know for a fact that Rome is the sixth King/kingdom/head referred to. The harlot religion of Rome was One that had Jupiter, married to Juno, the Queen of heaven, and producing offspring, the pantheon of gods.

Going back in history from this point, we Know that Rome borrowed their mythology from Greece, the head which preceded this head, and the harlot religion was one that worshipped Zeus, and Hera as the Queen of Heaven. Thus we can say that Greece is the fifth head on this beast.

It is said that the Greco Roman mythology Borrowed from the Egyptians their concept of deities, Using the example of Osiris, Isis, the Queen of Heaven, and Horus the offspring. Thus making this one of the heads as well.

We can also see the Assyrians emulating this Egyptian religion with their deities with Ashur/Nimrod , Semiramis the Queen of heaven, and Tammuz, which in turn was transferred to the Babylonian empire., similar to how Rome borrowed from Greece.

So at this point, we have 4 of the five fallen heads, and we know Rome is the sixth Let's Put them in order

1. Egypt, 2. Assyria, 3. Babylon, 4.__________, 5. Greece, 6. Rome. We can safely say that the Persian empire is the 4th one, and we will get into that later, as their religion is a bit different, yet the same. So let's look at Persia.

The Persian religion was Known as Zoroastrianism.  First of all Know that Zoroastrianism is a Dualistic religion of Good and Evil opposing one another. It exalts a monotheistic God, known as Ahura Mazda (Wise Lord) and his opposite counter part who are twins known as Angra Mainyu (Destructive spirit). There is also a third entity that comes from the Ahura Mazda which is known as the Spenta Mainyu (creative spirit). as the highest of the seven spirits emanating from Ahura Mazda, and the protector of Humans she is the one that is prayed to, and as a creative spirit she is seen as a feminine spirit. I am being a bit more in depth here, because it is this dualistic religion that plays out in the seventh, as the feminine is more concealed in Zoroastrianism, and so too is she concealed in the seventh head. So fill in the blank above with Persia.

Now we know the Roman empire is the Sixth head, and the Harlot riding atop her is the Jupiter Hera pantheon of gods. But Rome becomes Christianized under Constantine in the fourth century, and does not fall, But rather transforms into Holy Rome. Under this new system, God replaces Jupiter, Mary replaces the Queen of Heaven Hera, and Jesus is seen as the Offspring. Arguably, this pantheon existed and road the Roman beast through the fall of Rome, into the Holy Roman empire, culminated in the elevation and worship of Mary in the Roman Catholic church and became the Marianism of the end of the renaissance and was finally overthrown by the reformation, and the counter reformation. By Saying that, we can see that the sixth head lasted a long time, and also means that the RCC is not the seventh head that continues a short space. So Who is this seventh?

The seventh head is not communism, for communism has no harlot riding it. So that rules out Russia, China, etc. and they never controlled the Holy Land, and the middle east. The British empire did control this region for a short time, and Ceded control of the Holy Land to Israel and she was reborn in a day (1917-1947) The Ottoman empire controlled those lands from the 14th to the early 20th century as well. So these two are candidates for this seventh head. There is also another candidate with Globalism, and the U.N. whose religion is New age which is most definitely of this Harlot, which was Born in the early 1900's which was started by Helena Blavatzky in 1875. In a sense the U.N. controls Israel as their presence is there keeping peace? So we have three candidates for the seventh head, so that is the first question of this post who is the seventh head?

And Finally who is the eight head? The eighth head "Was", meaning at the time John saw this vision it had already ceased to exist. making it one of the five preceding Rome And not the seventh. This head "is not now" Meaning it is NOT Rome, thus ruling out the Sixth as re-emerging. I would say a re-emergence of Greece is highly unlikely as well. Leaving Egypt, Persia, Babylon, Assyria. All Muslim areas today. So does Islam have something to do with this? Can Islam become a type of harlot religion like the harlot religions that rode the other heads? Does Islam have a divine Feminine (Fatimah)? Will they produce offspring (Mahdi)? Will this come from Persia, or Babylon/ Syria (Iraq. Syria) or Egypt?

Am I wrong on my descriptions above?  

    

 

Hi dh,

 I was just about to post this article about "The Beast".......so I'll use it as a response to the OP.

It's lengthy but I think it's needed to explain everything. So, here goes:

Revelation speaks of two “beasts” and Daniel speaks of four “beasts” so we need to specify who THE Beast is. In Revelation we learn there is the “Beast from the sea” and the “beast from the earth” also known as the False Prophet.

 

I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names . . . Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.  He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence.  (Rev. 13: 1, 11-12 NASB)

 

The “sea” symbolizes gentile nations and the “land” or “earth” is Israel. So the first Beast arises out of gentile nations and the False Prophet (who most likely will say he is the historic Jesus) will appear to be from Israel.

There are four, main relevant chapters in scripture that identify the Beast: Rev. 13, Rev. 17, Dan. 7 and Dan. 2. Proving these scriptures are all referring to the same Beast is an easy matter. First he is identified by his heads and his horns.

A fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. (Dan. 7: 7 NASB, )

 

Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.  And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.  (Rev. 13: 1-2 NASB, )

 

I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. (Rev. 17: 3, )

 

We can also identify it by its actions:

A fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. (Dan. 7: 7 NASB,)

 

Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces. (Dan 2:40 NASB, )

 

From this analysis we can see that these four chapters of the Bible are all describing the same thing: the Beast.

Identifying who the Beast is from scripture, however, is not as easy. Commentators have poured over the relevant scriptures for 2000 years and there are still misunderstandings and questions. Part of the reason is that it appears that the Beast is multiplex; that it has various aspects to it all at the same time. I am presenting the theory here that the Beast is at once 1.) a spiritual demonic being: an ARCHON, 2.)a political empire, and 3.) a human ruler: the Antichrist. I think that scripture supports this 3-part make-up of the Beast. When scripture refers to “the Beast” it can be referring to any one aspect or all three aspects at one time. This causes the concept to be complex and leads to some of the confusion.

In Daniel 7, we are first introduced to four beasts, the fourth of which is THE Beast. We are immediately told what they are:

These four beasts are four kingdoms that shall rise up on the earth. (Dan. 7:17 LXX)

 

These same entities (the beasts) are described in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream as four kingdoms as well.

An additional aspect of the fourth Beast of Daniel 7 is also mentioned in Rev. 17:

 

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction (Rev. 17: 8)

 

From this passage we learn the Beast comes up out of the “abyss” which is a holding area for demons. It is referred to in this way in Luke 8:31, Rev. 9:11, Rev. 11:7, Rev. 20:1, 3 as well. Thus the Beast is obviously also a demon.

Finally, we see from the same passage in Rev. 17 that the Beast is also an earthy king:

I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns . . . the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits,  and they are seven kings (Rev. 17:  3, 9-10)

 

The passage shows us that the seven heads of the Beast are symbolic; they are both “mountains” and they are kings. This immediately proves the multiplex nature of the Beast; its heads are two things at once. “The seven heads are seven mountains and seven kings.” As we know, this passage is explaining Daniel 2 and Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. In Daniel 2:35 we learn that “mountain” is a symbol for kingdom. Therefore using the direct reference to Daniel 2, the passage in Revelation is saying the seven heads are seven kingdoms and seven kings. This makes perfect sense because a “head” is a symbol of authority just as Jesus is the “head” of the church. Thus the heads of the beast are its sources of authority which are seven kingdoms and seven kings.

 

Scripture also describes Satan as having these same seven heads:

Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red (Gk: PYRROS, meaning “fiery red”) dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems (Gk: DIADEMATA, meaning “kingly crowns”) . . . And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world. (Rev. 12: 3,9 NASB, )

 

From this passage we learn that the dragon is Satan himself. He is identified as being “fiery red;” the color associated with Esau and Edom. We see he also has seven heads and ten horns. Finally, we also see that the dragon is “of old.” He is same creature who appeared as a serpent and deceived Eve in the Garden.

 

We now know Satan and the Beast each have seven heads which are seven kingdoms or empires that have existed on the earth and that have been used by them to further their evil purposes. The Beast incorporates all the previous empires (heads) into one. 

Identifying the Seven Heads

As we attempt to identify these seven heads, the problem is how to choose only seven kingdoms from the hundreds of earthly kingdoms that have dominated world affairs. Scripture must interpret scripture for us; the Bible must provide the answer. By referring back to Daniel 7 we will find the solution. In that chapter we have learned of four wild beasts. How many heads do these Beasts have between them?

And four great beasts were coming up from the sea, different from one another.  The first was like a lion . . . And behold, another beast, a second one, resembling a bear. . . and behold, another one, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird; the beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it. After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast.(Dan. 7: 3-7 NASB)

The Lion,  the Bear, and the fourth Beast each have one head while the Leopard has four heads. Between them, the four Beasts have seven heads.  We can easily identify the heads of the Leopard. After the death of Alexander, the Hellenistic Kingdom (the Leopard)was divided into four sub-kingdoms: Macedonia (modern day Greece), Asia Minor (modern day Turkey), the Seleucid Empire (Syria and much of eastern Asia), the Ptolemaic Empire (modern Egypt). The final seventh head will be the seat of the Beast Empire.

In order to further identify these heads with modern nations, we need to refer back to the passage in Rev. 17:9-10:

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. (Rev. 17: 9-10 NASB)

 

This passage gives us two clues. First, John writes that the final head of Satan (and the Beast) must “remain a little while” and that implies that this final head will be a long lasting kingdom. Second, John writes that by his day “five have fallen, one is, and one has not yet come (total of seven kingdoms).” This information helps us further identify the seven heads. John wrote during the height of power of the Roman Empire so we know that the sixth empire must be Rome. From our previous analysis of Dan. 7, we predicted the first six heads would be  the Babylon, Persia, and the Leopard (Greece, Turkey, Seleucid Empire and Ptolemaic Empire).  There is a problem with this analysis. The Empire John was told “is” (or was currently existing in John’s day) was Rome. Rome does not exist on this list of six heads.

This dilemma is easily solved, however. When the Bible refers to an ancient empire or people group (other than the Jews) in prophecy it is referring to the land mass that the empire or people group lived on. The ancient peoples have migrated and intermarried and the empires are no more, but the land mass is still there. The Roman Empire and especially the Byzantine Eastern Roman Empire occupied Asia Minor (modern Turkey) and this land mass is on the list of the first six heads of Satan and the Beast! We should freely substitute “Rome” for Asia Minor in the heads of Satan and the Beast.

 

Another approach to determining the heads of Satan and the Beast is to examine all the historic empires of the world and logically examine which six appear to be the ones Satan has used throughout history to persecute the Jews and Christians and also to disrupt God’s plan of redemption.

 

 This list would be: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Hellenistic (Greece), and Rome. Just as we saw with Rome, many of these “logical” empires for the heads of Satan and the Beast don’t match the heads from Daniel 7. But if we apply the same “land mass” theory we applied above to Rome, an amazing thing happens we have a perfect match!

Historic Empire

Heads of Satan and the Beast (Dan. 7)

Modern Land Mass Area

Egypt

Ptolomaic

Egypt

Assyria

Seleucid

Syria and Eastern Asia

Babylon

Babylon

Iraq

Persia

Persia

Iran

Hellenistic

Macedonia

Greece

Rome

Asia Minor

Turkey

     

 

Placing these kingdoms on a time line we discover a very interesting fact: each of these kingdoms defeated and replaced the previous. This cannot be coincidence. The fact that each historic empire defeated the previous one and the fact that each of these empires occupied the land mass predicted by Daniel 7, leads us to the inescapable conclusion that these first six empires are the correct ones. 

 

The Seventh Head of the Beast

We are now prepared to search for the seventh head of Satan and the Beast. Just as each of the first six kingdoms defeated the previous, an Islamic Caliphate (the Ottoman Empire) defeated the last vestige of the Roman Empire (Byzantine) in 1453 AD. Thus the Caliphate fits this model as well. It also was a long lasting kingdom existing from AD 622 when Mohammed founded the first Caliphate until 1922. The following graphic details the applicable seven kingdoms:

 

Kingdom

Actions Taken to Thwart God’s Plan of Redemption

Who Replaced Them

1.) Egypt

Pharaoh attempted genocide by killing Jewish baby boys by throwing them in the Nile.

Assyria conquered Egypt in 701 BC (Isaiah 20:1–6).

2.) Assyria

Conquered Israel and sent it into captivity, and nearly conquered Judah.

Babylon conquered Assyria in 612 BC.

3.) Babylon

Conquered Jerusalem and Judah and took them into captivity.

Medes and Persians conquered Babylon in 539 BC (Daniel 5).

4.) Persia

Haman, in the Persian Court, attempted genocide of the Jews.

Greece conquered Persia in 324 BC.

5.) Greece

Antiochus IV desecrated the temple and killed thousands of Jews who would not convert to paganism.

Rome conquered Greece (the Seleucid Empire) in 64 BC.

6.) Rome

Rome crucified Jesus, killed Peter and Paul, killed numerous Christian martyrs, burned the temple and Jerusalem in AD 70, and sent the Jews into captivity.

Islam (the Ottoman Empire) conquered Byzantine Rome in AD 1453.

7.) Islamic Caliphate

Killed millions of Jews and Christians during empire-building jihads. Crushed the nations where Christianity began, converting them to Islam. Built the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

The Allies divided the Ottoman Empire after WWI (1922). No other Beast replaced it.

 

These two proofs of the identity of the heads of Satan and the Beast based on Daniel 7 and the historic record………………… these are Satan’s heads of authority.

If the Beast is an empire, what will be the extent of its territory? We are told it will be made up of the Lion, the Bear and the Leopard from Dan. 7:

Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.  And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. (Rev. 13: 1-2 NASB,

 

As we have seen these first three Beasts of Daniel 7 encompass the following territories Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Syria and eastern Asia, Turkey and Greece. This will be the territorial land mass of the Beast Empire based on these six heads. Of great interest to me is where Saudi Arabia is located in this analysis. The answer should be clear. Saudi Arabia is the seventh head of the Beast! It was Mohammed’s original home and his base of operations from which he launched his empire building jihads. So Saudi Arabia needs to be included in the footprint of the Beast.

 

Although the dragon has seven heads, there are actually eight kingdoms. One of the first seven “dies,” descends into the abyss, and then returns to the earth. “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction . . . The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven” (Rev. 17: 8,11 NASB). This apparent “death” of one of the heads of Satan is mentioned earlier in Revelation as well:

 

I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast. (Rev. 13: 3 NASB,

 

In November 1922, the seventh “head,” the Ottoman Empire (the Islamic Caliphate that conquered Rome), was “slain” and dissolved by the Allied Powers that won World War I. For decades Satan has not had a “head” on this earth to disrupt the plan of redemption of our God. We know that an Islamic Caliphate will return according to the passage above; the fatal wound will be healed and the whole earth will be amazed. This is an important prophecy insight.

At that point, Satan will transfer his power and authority to the Beast.

And the dragon gave him (the Beast) his power and his throne and great authority. (Rev. 13: 2 NASB, clarification mine)

Where is Satan’s throne? In Revelation 2: 13 we learn it is located in Pergamum in modern Turkey. This is yet another proof that the Islamic Caliphate (based in Turkey) will be the Beast Empire.

The Beast is a kingdom .The Beast is also an individual, “the beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth.” How can this be? If the Beast is a demonic power behind and controlling an empire, it can be both an empire and an individual demon.

We know from Dan. 10 that several of the kingdoms making up the 7 Heads of Satan have had demonic powers controlling them.

I will return to fight with the prince of the Persians: and I was going in, and the prince of the Greeks came. But I will tell thee that which is ordained in the scripture of truth: and there is no one that holds with me in these matters but Michael your prince. (Dan. 10: 20-21 LXX)

 

The Greek word translated “prince” three times above is the word ARCHON which means “spiritual ruler” and most often refers to angelic powers and rulers, both good and evil. You can see Michael is referred to as an ARCHON as well. If Persia and Greece had an ARCHON isn’t it likely that the Beast does as well?

Interestingly, many Muslims believe a physical animal known as the “Daabba” will arise during the time of the end. This animal (beast) will mark the foreheads of all believers in Islam so they can be differentiated from “infidels.” They even expect this “beast” will be able to speak. This bears a striking resemblance to both the Image of the Beast (which will speak) and the Mark of the Beast. Will Muslims construct a hologram of an animal or even a seven-headed creature that “talks?” Or will a demonic aberration inhabit a physical animal? Only time will tell.

 

 The Beast is embodied in the physical by the “man of lawlessness:” the Antichrist.

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits,  and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.  (Rev. 17: 9-11 NASB, 

 

This passage, one of the most complex in the Bible, shows that the seven heads of the Beast are kingdoms and that each kingdom is associated with a king. There is an eighth king. We are told the Beast himself (the demonic ARCHON) is the eighth king and was one of the seven. Does this mean that this demon possessed one of previous kings and will possess the final king, the Antichrist? I think that is exactly what it means.

 The Beast is the Islamic Caliphate, so the king that the Beast possessed in the past must be the most prominent of all Islamic kings. In my opinion it was Mohammed, and the spirit of that evil individual will also possess the Antichrist. There is a great deal of evidence that Mohammad may have been demon possessed; in fact he even thought he was possessed himself! A spirit being dictated the Quran to Mohammad in a cave. During this dictation the spirit choked or squeezed Mohammad forcibly three times. This experience so upset him he attempted to commit suicide. Only the intervention of this spirit being prevented his death. The spirit claimed to be Gabriel and told Mohammad he would be an apostle of Allah. Despite this reassurance, Mohammad continued to have suicidal thoughts. This certainly sounds like a demonic encounter to me. Was this the Beast possessing Mohammed? Possibly it was.

Will the Antichrist not only be demon possessed but also claim to be Mohammed himself? This is conjecture at this point, but it something to consider. Will this be part of the Great Delusion prophesied by Paul in 2 Thess. 2: 10-11? Again, only time will tell, but it is something to “watch” for.

Knowing that the Beast is the Antichrist possessed by a demonic ARCHON helps us answer some questions that have plagued commentators for some time. Both of the following verses are thought to refer to the Antichrist:

On that day I will give Gog a burial ground there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea, and it will block off those who would pass by. So they will bury Gog there with all his horde. (Ezek. 39:11 NASB)

And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh. (Rev. 19: 20-21 NASB)

 

Many ask how the Antichrist can be both buried in Israel and thrown alive into the Lake of Fire? If the Antichrist (Gog) is a man and the Beast (and the False Prophet) are also demons this is easy to consider. The man is buried and the demon is thrown alive in the lake of fire.

Will the Beast Proclaim himself God?

It is a common assumption that the Antichrist will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim himself to be God. A vexing question is how will devout Muslims accept such a claim?

I think it is doubtful that the Antichrist will proclaim himself God. In Dan. 11 we read:

He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all.  But instead he will honor a god of fortresses, a god whom his fathers did not know; he will honor him with gold, silver, costly stones and treasures. (Dan. 11: 37-38 NASB, )

 

It is obvious that the Antichrist does honor a god above himself; one of “fortresses” or “strongholds.” I assert this is Allah.

In a parallel passage in 2 Thess., Paul says the Antichrist:

Opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. (2 Thess. 2:4 NASB, )

 

Notice that the word Paul uses is “displaying.” The Antichrist doesn’t say he is a god, he portrays himself as God by sitting on God’s throne in the Holy of Hollies in the Temple of God.

Finally in Rev. 13: 4, 12, 15, we  read that the False Prophet causes those on the earth to worship the Beast. The Greek word translated worship is PROSKUNEO which means to bow down and prostrate oneself before a superior. It does not mean worship a god.

In conclusion, the Beast is a demonic spirit who possesses the human who will be Antichrist. It is also an empire encompassing Greece, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Eastern Asia, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

From the book "Revelation Deciphered" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  136
  • Topics Per Day:  0.08
  • Content Count:  2,488
  • Content Per Day:  1.43
  • Reputation:   1,325
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/29/2019
  • Status:  Offline

1 hour ago, douggg said:

There is debate over when Revelation was received by John.   In Nero's time, or at a later date.    The argument stems around hear-say evidence.

Most theologians get an idea of when a book was written because of the Temple's destruction. so for instance , Paul's Epistles were definitely written before because of mentions of the temple, the high priests, the Sanhedrin, and other things associated with Temple worship and Judaism. This is all absent in the writings of John, from the focus of his Gospel not dealing with the kingdom of heaven, As the Synoptic gospels did, to its stories talking about the Jesus dealing with Non Jews... The Samaritan at the well, the Syrophoenician woman, and the fact that it is the only one of the gospels that deals with the New Birth. The Book of Revelation is no different Israel is only mentioned in relation to the 144K, The other times are as illustrations. The Temple is only spoken of with regard to the two witnesses, all the rest of the time it is discussing the heavenly temple. All of this leads to date Revelation some time after 70 Ad, and Nero's death.

Other early Christian writings, such as the Martyrdom of Polycarp, a disciple of John and his contemporary, Place him in Asia minor in Ephesus at the church there, which he as an apostle to the Jews would have no reason to be in unless the destruction of the temple had occurred. By being a contemporary and teacher of Polycarp, this places John in Asia minor around 70-90 ad, and his exile at some point after that.

Of course there are all kinds of experts that will tell you a wide variety of dates, some even suggest that this John is different than the beloved apostle John of the Gospel, So You do have to use common sense to figure it out. The answer comes in that passage in rev. 11 about measuring the temple and leaving the outer court for the gentiles to trample. Why measure a temple in the future, when there was already one there in Jerusalem to measure, one that he was familiar with, and walked in when he was a young man being taught by Jesus? All of John's writings come after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.     

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  136
  • Topics Per Day:  0.08
  • Content Count:  2,488
  • Content Per Day:  1.43
  • Reputation:   1,325
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/29/2019
  • Status:  Offline

14 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

In conclusion, the Beast is a demonic spirit who possesses the human who will be Antichrist. It is also an empire encompassing Greece, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Eastern Asia, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Without requoting the whole article, let me just start by saying that there are some great points made there, and some that I do not agree with. So You are saying seventh head is the Ottoman empire, which is a definite possibility, But by being the seventh it cannot be the eighth, Although I do agree that the eighth is likely a Muslim empire consisting of all the Lands you spoke of.

It is getting late, and rather than write a long response tonight I will come back at this tomorrow some time and properly work through it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  763
  • Topics Per Day:  0.34
  • Content Count:  6,897
  • Content Per Day:  3.09
  • Reputation:   1,976
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  02/15/2018
  • Status:  Offline

3 hours ago, douggg said:

The only thing we have to keep straight is when the person is the Antichrist (by being the King of Israel instead of Jesus) and when the person is the King of the Roman Empire.

The Roman a/c may claim to hv Jews blood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  763
  • Topics Per Day:  0.34
  • Content Count:  6,897
  • Content Per Day:  3.09
  • Reputation:   1,976
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  02/15/2018
  • Status:  Offline

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

In November 1922, the seventh “head,” the Ottoman Empire (the Islamic Caliphate that conquered Rome),

The heads are kings, not kingdom

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

AND THE 7 HEADED BEAST HAS ONE BODY How can it become different kingdoms ?

As the 8th king is the ac when he is launched on the first seal to conquer the world with peace which is actually the beginning of great tribulation, then the 7th king must hv already appeared by now.

Look at this picture the seven heads hv one body, how can it become different kingdoms ? It can only mean 8 kings in succession in his kingdom.

And if you review the 4 beasts of Daniel each beast always represent one kingdom, never one beast represent many kingdoms in the Bible.

1st-beast-of-revelation-13.jpg

four beasts of daniel.jpg

Edited by R. Hartono
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...