douggg Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BeauJangles said: Begging your pardon. Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. KJV Revelation 4:8 is referring to Jesus. Differently, Revelation 17:8a is referring to the beast in the bottomless pit. dhchristian had wrote to me - " you are making God out to be a liar. The revelation clearly states that the beast that ascends from the Bottomless pit, WAS and IS NOT NOW, (When John received the Vision) AND IS TO COME. " That's what I was responding to. Edited July 31, 2019 by douggg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted July 31, 2019 57 minutes ago, douggg said: the phrase "AND IS TO COME" is not in the KJV ? okie dokie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.42 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, douggg said: That's kind of exteme isn't it, for disagreeing with your POV? What bible version are you quoting from because the phrase "AND IS TO COME" is not in the KJV ? That is how seriously we need to take this... It is not a game or a hobby to study prophecy, not for me anyway. Every time I post something I pray that I do not lead anyone astray. There is Liberty when it comes to studying prophecy, as in "In essentials unity and non-essentials liberty", But there are also consequences to doing it wrong. The version I had when I started studying this stuff was the ESV, since then I stick to the KJV after discovering the pitfalls therein. Some of the verses I have memorized from there when I quote them from memory. 1 hour ago, douggg said: The vision of the transgression of desolation, the 2300 days, is for time of the end. Antiochus was not time of the end. Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. This Prophecy is explained in detail in verses 8:18-26. It points to Antiochus without a doubt. In that explanation he explains that the evenings and mornings point to the end of the rule of this Kingdom of four horns, which happened shortly after Antiochus Death. (parenthesis mine below) 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, (Whose Kingdom? The four horns that are Alexander's Generals, Which ended Circa 146bc) when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. (Antiochus) 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power (Empowered by Satan): and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.(Israel, Destroyed by Antiochus) 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft (Deceit, He was a Genius when it came strategy) to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart (Epiphanes Means "god manifest"), and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Christ the Messiah, By Hellenizing Judaism, He could prevent the coming Messiah, Or so thought Satan who empowered him); but he shall be broken without hand (Killed by Madness, and disease, not by sword Antiochus). 26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. Now I have said Antiochus is a type of the antichrist, And there are lessons to learn from this, But the 2300 days Part of Antiochus Rule, and the "end" Here refers to the end of Greek empire which came some 18 years after Antiochus death. Now I will give you one example of where a group tried to apply this 2300 days to end time eschatology, and how this caused them to err. It is known today as the Great disappointment... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment Are there Lessons to learn in this passage about the antichrist? Absolutely, He is a TYPE of the Antichrist, and how he committed the Abomination as the first thing he did is of significant Note, My Timeline being based on How he committed the abomination in his day... The event, followed by a time of abomination. But to place this 2300 days in there is a mistake, Just like How Miller made his mistake as well. I Even Question whether we should place the 1335 days into end times from Daniel 12, as we have a fulfillment of this that is startlingly accurate as well. But there is enough there in those passages to Place it in the final week as a dual fulfillment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, dhchristian said: This Prophecy is explained in detail in verses 8:18-26. It points to Antiochus without a doubt. In that explanation he explains that the evenings and mornings point to the end of the rule of this Kingdom of four horns, which happened shortly after Antiochus Death. (parenthesis mine below) Antiochus is not in Daniel 8. The four breakup kingdoms and the four kings thereof are in verse 22. Antiochus was none of the four kings. He came later, but is not in Daniel 8. 22 Now that being broken (Alexandar), whereas four (kings) stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his (Alexander's) power. In verse 23, it transitions to the end times, and one kingdom being talked about, not the four kingdoms of verse 22. That one kingdom is end times and the kingdom of the transgressors. 23 And in the latter time of their (the transgressors) kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. The transgressors are the ten kings and the king of fierce countenance is the little horn of Daniel 7. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against (Jesus) the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. ___________________________________________________________________________________ The flaw of the SDA eschatology is that they convert days to years universally. So 2300 days in their thinking becomes 2300 years. I can't think of anything that SDA has gotten right. Edited July 31, 2019 by douggg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted July 31, 2019 KJV comes in Lite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.42 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, douggg said: In verse 23, it transitions to the end times, and one kingdom being talked about, not the four kingdoms of verse 22. That one kingdom is end times and the kingdom of the transgressors. 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, (Whose Kingdom? The four horns that are Alexander's Generals, Which ended Circa 146bc) "their" is a Plural word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, douggg said: Antiochus is not in Daniel 8. The four breakup kingdoms and the four kings thereof are in verse 22. Antiochus was none of the four kings. He came later, but is not in Daniel 8. 22 Now that being broken (Alexandar), whereas four (kings) stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his (Alexander's) power. In verse 23, it transitions to the end times, and one kingdom being talked about, not the four kingdoms of verse 22. That one kingdom is end times and the kingdom of the transgressors. 23 And in the latter time of their (the transgressors) kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. The transgressors are the ten kings and the king of fierce countenance is the little horn of Daniel 7. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against (Jesus) the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. ___________________________________________________________________________________ The flaw of the SDA eschatology is that they convert days to years universally. So 2300 days in their thinking becomes 2300 years. I can't think of anything that SDA has gotten right. I have to agree with brother Doug here and disagree with Andy Woods. The latter believes chapter 8 is about Antiochus E but I don’t see it. “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.” That seems pretty clear to me...and it was said twice by Gabriel....for a reason. I have a lot of respect for Andy Woods, but I believe this one he got wrong. Doug got it right. This is all about the antichrist and he is from the Seleucus kingdom (north). . No doubt.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.42 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Spock said: I have to agree with brother Doug here and disagree with Andy Woods. The latter believes chapter 8 is about Antiochus E but I don’t see it. Who is Andy Woods? All of chapter 8 is about Medo Persia, the 2 horned Ram, and Greece, the One Horned Goat under Alexander, which turns into the four horns of his Generals. YES, this Abomination has Implications for the end times Abomination as TYPE and some of the descriptions might refer to the end time beast, But the 2300 days is not part of that. This was fulfilled to the Day by Antiochus Epiphanes. Daniel 9:27, and Rev. 13:4 are clear that the end time beast rules for 42 months, which is equivalent to 1260 days, or as few as 1240.xx days because of the a lunar month is not exactly 30 days. To Imply that the beast of rev. 13 rules for 2300 days is making God's word contradict itself. I For one dare not do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 28 minutes ago, dhchristian said: 2300 days I think the NASB renders is more accurately as "2,300 evenings mornings". Since the passage focuses on the daily sacrifice, which happened once in the evening and once in the morning, it's reasonable to see 2300 evenings mornings as 2300 sacrifices, or 1150 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.42 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 Just now, Last Daze said: I think the NASB renders is more accurately as "2,300 evenings mornings". Since the passage focuses on the daily sacrifice, which happened once in the evening and once in the morning, it's reasonable to see 2300 evenings mornings as 2300 sacrifices, or 1150 days. Went through this before, I Think with RM, The same language is used in Genesis 1, and no one is saying God created the World in three days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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