The seven heads and the harlot atop them

[WilliamL]

2 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I think the NASB renders is more accurately as "2,300 evenings mornings".  Since the passage focuses on the daily sacrifice, which happened once in the evening and once in the morning, it's reasonable to see 2300 evenings mornings as 2300 sacrifices, or 1150 days.

I used to think this might be true, until I realized that the daily sacrifice is not evening and morning, but morning and evening. The only thing that was evening and morning was the tending of the Menorah in the Holy Place. And since the evening begins the day, which day continues through the next morning, these are 2300 days.

The significance of the “evening-morning” is generally missed. This was not the order of the Law-required continual (daily) blood-sacrifices upon the Altar of the Court, which were morning and evening. Ex. 29:38-39; Num. 28:2-4 Rather, “evening until morning” was the order of service of the lights of the lampstand/Menorah in the Holy Place. Ex. 27:20-21; Lev. 24:2-3 The seven lights of the Menorah represented the seven-fold Spirit of God in the Holy Temple, and from it throughout all the earth. See “The Lampstand,” in The Tabernacle and the Court, Part 2.

When the Maccabees resanctified and rededicated the Temple to the God of Israel in December 165 B.C., that act was henceforth commemorated yearly by the Feast of Hanukkah. But it is more notably known as the Festival of Lights, because of the miracle of the single cruse of sanctified oil that kept alight the Menorah for eight days, until more oil could be prepared.

-- from https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1575-daniel-924-27-examined-part-2-daniel-8ʼs-original-vision-of-“the-pesharebellion”-of-the-jews/

 

[WilliamL]

46 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

All of chapter 8 is about Medo Persia, the 2 horned Ram, and Greece, the One Horned Goat under Alexander, which turns into the four horns of his Generals. YES, this Abomination has Implications for the end times Abomination as TYPE and some of the descriptions might refer to the end time beast, But the 2300 days is not part of that. This was fulfilled to the Day by Antiochus Epiphanes.

Correct. From my blog post following after the one cited above:

Daniel 8:23 defines the very era of the 2300-day abasement of Jerusalemʼs Temple: “in the latter part/time of their [the Greek] kingdom.” By 168 B.C., only the significantly-diminished Seleucid and Ptolemaic kingdoms remained out of Alexanderʼs once vast empire. Therefore, the “fierce king” and ha-poshim/“the rebelling ones” of verse 23 can only be Antiochus Epiphanes and the Jewish apostates, respectively. All of the verses from 8:23-28 prophesy about the qualities and acts of Antiochus: they do not prophesy about OUR times.

Was Antiochus Epiphanes a type and foreshadower of the coming King of the North of the yet-unfulfilled prophecy of Daniel 11:40-45? Yes. (See Antiochus Epiphanes and the End Times, Part 3.) Can the attributes and acts of Antiochus described in Daniel 8, and/or the period of 2300 days, be expected to apply to the coming King of the North? No. Beware of any such presumptions. Daniel 11:29 specifically prophesies that one “appointed time” fulfilled by Antiochus “shall not be like the latter” event fulfilled by Daniel 11:40ʼs King of the North. Certainly there will be other significant differences between the attributes and acts of these two rulers.

49 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Daniel 9:27, and Rev. 13:4  are clear that the end time beast rules for 42 months, which is equivalent to 1260 days...

Not correct, but a common misunderstanding.

Rev. 13:5's Mouth (spokesman) of the Beast = Dan. 7's  Little Horn is the one who's rule is limited to 1260 days. The Mouth's/Little Horn's demise comes at the Seventh Trumpet.

The Beast outlives him; his demise does not come until the Battle of Armageddon at the Seventh Bowl.

[Last Daze]

32 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Went through this before, I Think with RM, The same language is used in Genesis 1, and no one is saying God created the World in three days.

Genesis 1 isn't concerned with daily sacrifices.

[Last Daze]

46 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

I used to think this might be true, until I realized that the daily sacrifice is not evening and morning, but morning and evening. The only thing that was evening and morning was the tending of the Menorah in the Holy Place. And since the evening begins the day, which day continues through the next morning, these are 2300 days.

The point being that there are two per day, 1150 days.  If "days" were meant, there's a word for that.   The construct "evenings mornings" was used for a reason.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Last Daze

[WilliamL]

10 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The construct "evenings mornings" was used for a reason.

Yup. To indicate the tending of the Menorah.

[Last Daze]

20 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Yup. To indicate the tending of the Menorah.

Come to think of it . . . keeping one's lamp lit figures significantly in the end times.  Regardless, 2300 evenings, mornings = 1150 days.

And also, the two witnesses are described as lampstands and olive trees.  Very interesting.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Last Daze

[dhchristian]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Genesis 1 isn't concerned with daily sacrifices.

No But Hebrew language is used, and was written by Moses.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

No But Hebrew language is used, and was written by Moses.

And speaking of the Hebrew language, it has a word for "days."  Using the phrase "evenings mornings" is meant to convey something else.  The more I reflect on WilliamL's reply:

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

To indicate the tending of the Menorah.

the more it makes sense given the purpose of the two witnesses (lampstands and olive trees) in conjunction with Daniel 8 . . . when you put it all together.

Keep your lamps lit.

[dhchristian]

3 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

And speaking of the Hebrew language, it has a word for "days."  Using the phrase "evenings mornings" is meant to convey something else.  The more I reflect on WilliamL's reply:

What I have come to conclude is that when Mornings and evenings are used prophetically it refers to days specifically, But when Yowm Is used it refers to Both days or time periods. And if You look at the definition, of Yowm  it allows for this. This then being one of my arguments against things like gap theory, and long day creationism, Because the use of mornings and evening does not allow for Years in this passage.

Notice also in Daniel 8:11-13, the Word "daily" is used of the sacrifice. This word means continual. When you go back to scripture the daily sacrifice is a continual one, Meaning it is day and night, morning and evening.

 

39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even: 40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering. 41 And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD. 42 This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee. (Exo. 29:40-42)

Thus Morning and evening Oblations are considered one day as a unit.. DAILY, Continual

The word for continual is tamiyd (H8548) 

This word is used 3x in reference to the 2300 hundred days, verses 11, 12, and 13. Is this not enough emphasis that the mornings and evenings are a unit that equals a single day? It is like us saying AM and PM, which both make up a single day on the clock. 

 

 

[dhchristian]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Not correct, but a common misunderstanding.

Rev. 13:5's Mouth (spokesman) of the Beast = Dan. 7's  Little Horn is the one who's rule is limited to 1260 days. The Mouth's/Little Horn's demise comes at the Seventh Trumpet.

The Beast outlives him; his demise does not come until the Battle of Armageddon at the Seventh Bowl.

I Have been through this with Doug, The dragon, the beast and the false prophet are men possessed by a devil. In Rev 16:13, those spirits depart those bodies, meaning the Host body are Killed. This occurs during the Day of Christ, and is the Wrath of the Lamb. When Christ at the end of the seven Years after Armageddon throws the beast and the false prophet alive into the lake of fire, it is referring to these spirit beings. The Spirit being in the dragon, Satan himself is not cast into the lake of fire till the thousand years are ended and he has his one last rebellion.