Your thoughts on a canceled funeral

[LadyKay]

51 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

1 Corinthians 5 says otherwise. 
 

That passage seems to be about members of the church. Not people visiting. 

[Guest PinkBelt]

11 hours ago, ayin jade said:

1 Corinthians 5 states otherwise
 

I'm not letting that slide.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5&version=NIV

 

1 Corinthians 5 is very clearly about a man committing incest with his fathers wife. You also conveniently ignore that is actually talks about not judging those outside the church:

1 Corinthians 5:12-13

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

(The wicked person being expelled is the believer committing incest)

I don't see this thread as anything other than support for the heartless treatment of a gay person.

10 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I am probably not going to think this out real deeply, but the first thing that comes to me mind, is the church going to discriminate, or note on the invitations or whatever: "If your are a sinner, you are not welcome to attend!"

Omegaman is totally correct here. The bible condemns adultery (including remarriage), premarital relations and so on. If the church is going to start refusing people entry based on their particular sin then we should bolt the doors shut on all of them, because none of us are fit to enter. This is just a nasty anti-christian church doing a nasty thing that brings Jesus name down in the eyes of unbelievers.

"Christians" love to play what I call bible euchre... thinking if they find that one verse that sort of tells them what they want to hear, it cancels out all the other verses telling them to do the things they don't want to do. At that point why even bother following the bible at all if you're just going to pick and choose what has more value?

Edited July 26, 2019 by PinkBelt
Removed unintentional personal attack.

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, LadyKay said:

So......we should kick all unrepentant sinners out of church in case they want to sit next to us.   I am not sure this is what Jesus would do. 

We are to serve God rather than religious acceptance

1 Cor 5

5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
KJV
 

[appy]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I am probably not going to think this out real deeply, but the first thing that comes to me mind, is the church going to discriminate, or note on the invitations or whatever: "If your are a sinner, you are not welcome to attend!"

I want to say that while I do not agree with an alternative lifestyle, this is something I have also thought of.  The son, nor his father are members of the said church in which the services would be held.  The son simply asked the church associates for the ability to have the funeral service held there.  Since neither were members, it was within that particular church's right to say ... "wait, we have changed our minds in regards to this".  

I don't know of other people's funeral attendance experiences, but a few that I have attended, A short message by a pastor, regarding the need for a Savior was squeezed into the eulogy.  I do think the Tennessee man's situation is different from a funeral in which the speaker is a pastor who is living an alternative lifestyle openly and teaching.  From the article itself, I don't think the son planned on doing more than sing his dad's requested song .

There is the alleged assumption from the article itself that the dying man's son is not a Christian, and in this; it is certainly a different ball park from someone who professes to be a Christian, but is openly living an alternative lifestyle.

 

[BeauJangles]

2 hours ago, PinkBelt said:

I don't see this thread as anything other than an attempt to gloat over the heartless treatment of a gay person.

No one is gloating that I can see. Some are more liberal on accepting flamboyant displays of hedonism, than are some who share a more conservative point of view on the matter. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by BeauJangles

[Guest PinkBelt]

6 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

No one is gloating that I can see. Some are more liberal on accepting flamboyant displays of hedonism, than are some who share a more conservative point of view on the matter. 

God is not a liberal or a conservative and it is a very poor idea to turn God into a proxy for ones political ideology. They denied a man his last request because his son was gay. His son wasn't there as a minister or in some official church function. It was just plain nasty and demonstrative of why the churches are losing people at breakneck speed. Not because "Christians" are sticking to their principles, not because they're following the bible but because of this self righteous chest puffing. Thinking that one is a warrior for God because they really stuck it to a gay person is in my opinion absolutely petty.

Edited July 26, 2019 by PinkBelt

[BeauJangles]

6 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

No one is gloating that I can see. Some are more liberal on accepting flamboyant displays of hedonism, than are some who share a more conservative point of view on the matter. 

 

5 minutes ago, PinkBelt said:

"Christians" are sticking to their principles, not because they're following the bible but because of this self righteous chest puffing. Thinking that one is a warrior for God because they really stuck it to a gay person is in my opinion absolutely gloating. And petty.

Oh, I get what you mean now. Sorry for the misunderstanding. This was a personal dig at the church who refused to host the funeral, and not those who were merely posting their opinions. Duly noted. 

[Guest PinkBelt]

55 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

 

Oh, I get what you mean now. Sorry for the misunderstanding. This was a personal dig at the church who refused to host the funeral, and not those who were merely posting their opinions. Duly noted. 

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a church, nor is it personal because I don't know them. I am merely stating my opinion on them based on their conduct. 

[BeauJangles]

4 minutes ago, PinkBelt said:

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a church, nor is it personal because I don't know them. I am merely stating my opinion on them based on their conduct.  

And you're certainly entitled to those opinions as well. God bless you, @PinkBelt. 

[Neighbor]

Pity the poor funeral director sucked into this one.

 

There is long history of officiants ( pastors priests Rabbis etc.) directives as to what they will and will not participate in. 

Most for example will not participate if the Free Masons are involved. Some will split the service with another group, some will separate the services into a chapel service and a separate gravesite service where they are not present.

My own MIL never stepped afoot in her family's preferred church after the church refused to ring the church bells for her mother's death because she had not attended the church whileher mother  was confined to a convalescent home.

Buildings are not holy is my own thought, God alone is Holy. So no person can by their presence defile them by their presence. What can happen is a person can cause argument against a speaker or officiant by their participation in ceremonies. And there I think the pastor in this case has every right to absolutely dictate what he will participate in or decline.

Personally I would hope my own pastors would participate, but insist on conferring with the other participants as to what is acceptable and what is not. 

Evangelical groups tend to have very strong presentations of the Gospel of Jesus as part of the funeral of a member and usually at that member's request prior to their death, all with the very specific goal of reaching a particular person or persons the honoree loves and cares for to the point they will make their own relative a captive audience to the gospel presentation at their funeral. Most evangelical pastors that i have known are very good at doing this tactfully  and yet thoroughly.

In twenty years of experience with up to several thousand funerals per year by the firm I worked for we often had much to negotiate between interested parties. And yes going to court is part of the "experience". we used to say to each other at the office after a particularly difficult arrangement  and negotiation -Nothing like a death in the family to bring the family together.

I used to get some of the most horrific calls from pastors and mostly from  priests of the local Parishes. They would in their frustration of dealing with the families  then take it out on me, and why I didn't head it off or why I didn't pay them direct or why I didn't tell the family they would not let  so and so participate at the grave site or....

Personally I think the pastor  in this case may have missed multiple opportunities ot share the gospel of jesus with those that need to hear it most. But that is his call to make. a good funeral director will do his own best to find resolution for all involved. Not always possible, but the try will be made, and the funeral director will then be "sucked into to all.