On the Soul

[JTC]

https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/

 

Greetings All,

   Several yrs ago I made a post suggesting that the idea of an immortal soul is not Biblical. I had no evidence and I was shot down. However I've continued to think I'm right. I know the Bible fairly well and there isn't even 1 solid verse that would lead me to believe we are born with an immortal soul. Quite to the contrary I read over & over in both the OT & the NT that the soul who sins will die. I read that the only way to gain immortality is by accepting Jesus as Lord & savior. I was almost certain an immortal soul was a pagan idea that got into early Christianity. This made sense since the early church fathers were almost all practicing pagans before accepting Jesus. I believe Plato made the idea of an immortal soul popular. Today I found the proof and I needed.

Here are 2 sites that explain this fallacy http://jewishnotgreek.info/, https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/.

I hope the board has an open mind nowadays.

Edited July 27, 2019 by JTC

[Beckett]

I don't like the idea of a soul simply cause it is something to cling on. We say "I have a immortal soul". It's very easy to say that, you see it in new age thinking and so on. Something immortal that is "mine" to cling to.

 

"Go out with a bang, not a whimper."

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Beckett

[Debp]

Following is a quote from the site JTC posted:

"We are so biblically persuaded of our position, and so confident in the Scriptural evidence presented on this site, that we honestly believe anyone who shares our faith in the final authority of Scripture will not be able to hold to the endless torment doctrine after reading this entire site and the links."

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So it sounds like this is a topic against eternal torment?

[angels4u]

In What Sense Do Human Beings Have Immortality?

The Scripture teaches that death is not the end of existence. The Bible says that the spirit, or soul, of humans will exist forever. This brings up the issue of immortality. If human beings are going to live forever, does this mean they are immortal? If humans are immortal, then in what sense do they have immortality? 

God Alone

Immortality means not subject to death. The Bible says God alone has immortality. 
 

Who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no person has seen or can see (1 Timothy 6:16)

In this passage we see that immortality is something that is part and parcel with the nature of God. He alone has it. The Scripture teaches that only God has life in Himself. 
 

For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself (John 5:26).
 

Only God is deathless in His essence. He alone is immortal in this sense of the term. 

Imparted By God

Yet the Bible says that immortality is something that God imparts to believers. The Old Testament taught that immortality would result by living righteously before God. 
 

In the way of righteousness there is life; along that path is immortality (Proverbs 12:28).

New Testament Teaching

The New Testament also says that God grants immortality to humans who trust in Him. 
 

So when this corruptible has but on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory' (1 Corinthians 15:53,54).

From this passage we discover three things about immortality. 

1. Immortality is given only to believers, there is no mention of unbelievers receiving it. Therefore it is more than endless existence. 

2. It is a gift from God that believers will receive in the future at Christ's coming. 

3. Immortality refers not only to the soul or spirit, but the body is also included. Believers become immortal when this mortal body puts on an immortal one. 

Brought By Christ

God the Son, Jesus Christ, brought immortality to the believer. 
 

but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel (2 Timothy 1:10).

Not Immortal By Nature

Therefore, according to the Bible, humanity is not immortal by nature. The human soul, or spirit, survives death, but the body does not. Immortality is achieved when the body of the believer is raised and transformed and then united with the soul. 

Immortal Inheritance

Christians have an immortal inheritance awaiting them. 
 

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you (1 Peter 1:3,4).

Not The Same Thing As Resurrection

Immortality is not the same thing as resurrection. Immortality occurs at the resurrection when the believer receives a new body from the Lord. 

Not The Same As Eternal Life

Immortality is not the same as eternal life. Believers receive eternal life the moment they trust Christ. 
 

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (John 17:3). 

Eternal life consists of a relationship with a person - Jesus Christ. 

Differences

We can sum up the difference between the immortality of God and of humans as follows. Immortality is basic to the nature of God, not humanity. God is immortal, those humans who believe God's promises have immortality. God is immortal in His essence, believers have a derived immortality. God had no beginning or end. Believing humans had a beginning but will have no end. 

What About Unbelievers?

If only believers have immortality, what can we conclude about the state of unbelievers? Scripture says that unbelievers will exist forever, but they will exist apart from the life of God. They do not have immortality in the biblical sense. Immortality consists of eternal life in Jesus Christ. Unbelievers have no such life, so they are not immortal according to the biblical understanding of the term. 

Summary

Only God is immortal, or deathless, by nature. The Lord, however, imparts immortality to those who believe in Jesus. At His coming, believers will receive a glorified, immortal body that will be united with their spirit. Immortality is not the same as eternal life. Eternal life is received the moment a person trusts Christ, while immortality occurs at the resurrection of the body. Although unbelievers will exist forever, they are cut off from the life of God, and do not have immortality in the biblical sense. According to the Bible, immortality is more than eternal existence. https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_103.cfm

[Willa]

The word soul means self.  It is all that makes us unique as a human being.  

[Beckett]

Experientially the soul seems to be that state of mind when you yourself are gone, meaning your ego, socialy conditioned persona and all that. When you remove yourself from all lusts of the flesh for material objects and so on, then what is left? A kind of nothingness that yearns for nothing but light

Sometimes it can take a lot of suffering, sickness, depression, spiritual problem etc ... to see the soul, and when you see that soul you see that it is the soul of all men and women- it is what is behind all of it, unless you are soulless that is.

But do we want this state to be immortal? no, certainly not, cause it is not perfection. We often use the words "lost soul" and so on. The soul seeks God, and actually wants to get rid of itself. But one gotta connect to the soul to initiate any true search and yearning for God. That is the burning away of the social conditioned persona and ego, it is not pleasant.

[missmuffet]

The soul is immortal without a doubt.

Question: "Is the human soul mortal or immortal?"

Answer: Without a doubt the human soul is immortal. This is clearly seen in many Scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments: Psalm 22:26; 23:6; 49:7-9; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Daniel 12:2-3; Matthew 25:46; and 1 Corinthians 15:12-19. Daniel 12:2 says, “Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.” Similarly, Jesus Himself said that the wicked “will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (Matthew 25:46). With the same Greek word used to refer to both “punishment” and “life,” it is clear that both the wicked and the righteous have an eternal/immortal soul.

The unmistakable teaching of the Bible is that all people, whether they are saved or lost, will exist eternally, in either heaven or hell. True life or spiritual life does not cease when our fleshly bodies pass away in death. Our souls will live forever, either in the presence of God in heaven if we are saved, or in punishment in hell if we reject God’s gift of salvation. In fact, the promise of the Bible is that not only will our souls live forever, but also that our bodies will be resurrected. This hope of a bodily resurrection is at the very heart of the Christian faith (1 Corinthians 15:12-19).

While all souls are immortal, it is important to remember that we are not eternal in the same way that God is. God is the only truly eternal being in that He alone is without a beginning or end. God has always existed and will always continue to exist. All other sentient creatures, whether they are human or angelic, are finite in that they had a beginning. While our souls will live forever once we come into being, the Bible does not support the concept that our souls have always existed. Our souls are immortal, as that is how God created them, but they did have a beginning; there was a time they did not exist.

www.gotquestions.org/human-soul-mortal-immortal.html

Edited July 28, 2019 by missmuffet

[enoob57]

The simplest of simple... if you are created in the image of God with the choice of being truth filled or filled with lies and that image is fashioned off of One with no begin and end.... then in reality if one says we end then they are calling God a liar for we were not made in His Image if so!

[Dennis1209]

11 hours ago, Willa said:

The word soul means self.  It is all that makes us unique as a human being.  

That's my understanding also; to expound. Our soul is what makes us... us, our personality, individualism and uniqueness. Our views, our free will, likes, dislikes, mannerisms, characteristics, traits, choices, acceptance, rejections and peculiar's. God could have created us all as robots and yes people, but He didn't for His plans and purposes for us. Wouldn't it be a boring life if we were all of the same mind and opinion, a beehive mentality if you will? 

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

There appears to be a distinct division between our soul and spirit.

[GandalfTheWise]

I've known solid mature Christians who come down on both sides of this issue.  Those who hold to eternal life being immortality which can come only through participation in Christ's atonement are definitely in a minority.  However, those Christians I know who do hold this are not people I can dismiss easily because of their character, knowledge of the Bible, and the amount of fruit in their lives.  In the last church I was at, the head pastor had this view.  He made it clear most of the staff disagreed and that every member was free to disagree.  This was a church in which people were regularly coming to Christ in most services and through most ministries and there were several dozen baptisms per year.   The pastor wanted to foster an environment of unity on essentials and freedom in non-essentials.  This was one of the more peaceful and spiritually vibrant churches I've been in.  There were definitely some heavy duty biblical and theological debates, but these always took second place to fruit and behavior and ministry.  The only reason we left that church was because we moved hours away from there.

My own opinion is that this is a non-essential.   I think it's one of those things that simply has the weight of so much theological inertia behind it that no one ever bothers to even question it and it sounds shocking when someone hears it for the first time.   In the grand scheme of things, it's probably a blessing that so few people ever think about this or it would be one more non-essential that churches and denominations split over.