Peace Plan

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's been my position that a covenant must exist for a covenant to be confirmed to satisfy the conditions of Daniel 9:27

 

For starters, the verses/passage doesn't quite mean what one would think via our modern day English.

 Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm 1396 z8689 the covenant 1285 with many 7227..............

#1396 גָּבַר gabar {gaw-bar'} a primitive root; TWOT - 310; v

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) to prevail, have strength, be strong, be powerful, be mighty, be great 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to be strong, mighty 1a2) to prevail 1b) (Piel) to make strong, strengthen

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

-----------------------------------------------------

#1285 בְּרִית b@riyth {ber-eeth'} from H1262 (in the sense of cutting [like H1254]); TWOT - 282a; n f

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) covenant, alliance, pledge 1a) between men 1a1) treaty, alliance, league (man to man) 1a2) constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects) 1a3) agreement, pledge (man to man) 1a4) alliance (of friendship)

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

The MANY are the Many Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region. The Agreements {Covenants} are in place as we speak IMHO in the name of the European Neighborhood Policy {see Wikipedia} and it is.....GASP....7 Year Deals between the E.U. and Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Palestine, Syria and Tunisia. Notice the Northern African Nations ? Well what does the Anti-Christ Conquer in Daniel 11:40-43 ? THE MANY !!

Dan. 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. {Where Israel/Jews Flee too, Southern Jordan/Petra/Bozrah area}

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

So THE MANY are much of North Africa, Israel, Lebanon, Syria and some of Jordan. The Agreements are indeed in place as we speak and he "CONFIRMS" which I think means he strong arms counties that already have Agreements worked out into giving up more than they want to, kinda like Hitler strong Armed the UK and France into bad agreements before WW2, even though he had no intention of keeping the Agreements. Likewise, this man will be far craftier than Hitler, and he will indeed strong arm these Agreements, BUT people will start to believe in his PEACE because he deceives them for 3.5 years, THEN he catches them off guard and goes on attack, full bore. 

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

Our President has tasked Jason Greenblatt to deliver just such a plan.

No U.S. President fits the descriptives here....this man has to be the E.U. President. 

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

For starters, the verses/passage doesn't quite mean what one would think via our modern day English.

 Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm 1396 z8689 the covenant 1285 with many 7227..............

#1396 גָּבַר gabar {gaw-bar'} a primitive root; TWOT - 310; v

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) to prevail, have strength, be strong, be powerful, be mighty, be great 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to be strong, mighty 1a2) to prevail 1b) (Piel) to make strong, strengthen

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

-----------------------------------------------------

#1285 בְּרִית b@riyth {ber-eeth'} from H1262 (in the sense of cutting [like H1254]); TWOT - 282a; n f

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) covenant, alliance, pledge 1a) between men 1a1) treaty, alliance, league (man to man) 1a2) constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects) 1a3) agreement, pledge (man to man) 1a4) alliance (of friendship)

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

The MANY are the Many Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region. The Agreements {Covenants} are in place as we speak IMHO in the name of the European Neighborhood Policy {see Wikipedia} and it is.....GASP....7 Year Deals between the E.U. and Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Palestine, Syria and Tunisia. Notice the Northern African Nations ? Well what does the Anti-Christ Conquer in Daniel 11:40-43 ? THE MANY !!

Dan. 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. {Where Israel/Jews Flee too, Southern Jordan/Petra/Bozrah area}

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

So THE MANY are much of North Africa, Israel, Lebanon, Syria and some of Jordan. The Agreements are indeed in place as we speak and he "CONFIRMS" which I think means he strong arms counties that already have Agreements worked out into giving up more than they want to, kinda like Hitler strong Armed the UK and France into bad agreements before WW2, even though he had no intention of keeping the Agreements. Likewise, this man will be far craftier than Hitler, and he will indeed strong arm these Agreements, BUT people will start to believe in his PEACE because he deceives them for 3.5 years, THEN he catches them off guard and goes on attack, full bore. 

No U.S. President fits the descriptives here....this man has to be the E.U. President. 

 

I grant you it's possible it plays out how you present it. It's a bit broad for me as I think the inception is a narrow focus such as we see here.

The one problem not solved is the country for the Palestinians. There is no peace for Israel and the Palestinian people are suffering terribly in the West Bank and Gaza. No one has solved this though every European and world body has made many promises, none of which came to fruition.

The EU Neighborhood Plan is far too broad in my opinion and really does nothing for the other countries involved except to force certain reforms if the neighbors want to be a part of the EU. It's a political agenda designed to increase the power and influence of the EU and demands political and financial reforms which many countries resist. North African countries and Middle Eastern countries have opted out as most preliminary periods have ended the last decade, with only middle European countries opting into the EU.

You may say this is the whole idea, to rule the world politically with the 'antichrist' being the president of the EU. Maybe. But the 'antichrist' is going to have to 'strengthen with great strength' an existing covenant. This proposal by the Trump administration could turn out to be that agreement. The details are lacking as the plan has not been released. More negotiations or finalization of terms are being discussed.

As long as the covenant is 'strengthened with great strength' with 'many' it's the one we are looking for. 'Many' could be the Europeans but it just as well could be the Gulf states. The one that makes sense to me as the prophecy is Israel-centric and any agreement such as the one we are discussing would necessarily involve Israel and regional partners.

 

 

[douggg]

On 7/28/2019 at 1:37 PM, Diaste said:

It's been my position that a covenant must exist for a covenant to be confirmed to satisfy the conditions of Daniel 9:27

Daniel 9:27 covenant confirmed for 7 years is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Separately, that doesn't rule out a peace plan to amplify Israel living in peace right before Gog/Magog.     We will see what happens with President Trumps plan, as that is what is in the news right now.

[douggg]

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

As long as the covenant is 'strengthened with great strength' with 'many' it's the one we are looking for. 'Many' could be the Europeans but it just as well could be the Gulf states. The one that makes sense to me as the prophecy is Israel-centric and any agreement such as the one we are discussing would necessarily involve Israel and regional partners.

Well, a peace plan is not the covenant in Daniel 9:27.   

But let's say there is a peace plan, what specifically confirms it to begin the 7 years?

Because it will be very apparent if it is the confirming of the covenant for 7 years...if it has a 7 years stipulation in it.   Or that it has a agreement clause to renew every seven years by all parties.    And seven years later, the person who becomes the Antichrist signs off, confirming it for another 7 years.

Whether initial or whether renewed, to be the one in Daniel 9:27, the animal sacrifices will have to start up soon into it - in order for those to be stopped.     And to have animals sacrifices, a temple must be built.

Do you think there is going to be a provision for a temple to be rebuilt in President Trump's plan ?

 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

Well, a peace plan is not the covenant in Daniel 9:27.   

But let's say there is a peace plan, what specifically confirms it to begin the 7 years?

Because it will be very apparent if it is the confirming of the covenant for 7 years...if it has a 7 years stipulation in it.   Or that it has a agreement clause to renew every seven years by all parties.    And seven years later, the person who becomes the Antichrist signs off, confirming it for another 7 years.

Whether initial or whether renewed, to be the one in Daniel 9:27, the animal sacrifices will have to start up soon into it - in order for those to be stopped.     And to have animals sacrifices, a temple must be built.

Do you think there is going to be a provision for a temple to be rebuilt in President Trump's plan ?

 

Your reply is nearly parallel to my line of reasoning. You are correct, the peace plan is NOT the covenant of Dan 9:27. The covenant is the one for some strong guarantee of enforcing or administering an already in place agreement of some sort. Some agreement that is accepted in principle but neither party is following through on the terms and are either unable or unwilling to give the agreed upon considerations.

The Temple question is paramount. Of course the Jews want it and it's no doubt in the forefront of their collective mind. The Temple is the most emblematic ideal of their national identity and culture. I would think it's existence would come up at some point in the negotiations. 

Over the course of the last 12 months I have seen articles from Middle eastern print media where two imams have said they are agreeable to a Temple in Israel and the King of Saudi Arabia has made this suggestion also. I find it interesting Kushner and Greenblatt, two people of Jewish heritage, are on the way to speak to 'many' about this plan.

In any case you are correct about the stone Temple standing in Jerusalem at some point. Who knows when? There may be a Temple clause in the plan but no one knows because the of deep secrecy concerning the plan. I think there is and the delegation is shopping for support of the idea.

Many in the Islamic faith will of course stridently disagree with a Temple in Jerusalem whether on the Mount or in the city of David. If the Nation of Israel demands it stand on the Mount then the opposition will be even fiercer. This may be the whole reason why the plan needs a strong overseer or administrator. A leader who will stave off what's sure to be immense political and physical pressure in opposition to the Temple, even going to war against those who would march on Jerusalem to stop construction.

 

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

Daniel 9:27 covenant confirmed for 7 years is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Separately, that doesn't rule out a peace plan to amplify Israel living in peace right before Gog/Magog.     We will see what happens with President Trumps plan, as that is what is in the news right now.

I would really, really, like to see the terms of that plan.

[douggg]

4 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Over the course of the last 12 months I have seen articles from Middle eastern print media where two imams have said they are agreeable to a Temple in Israel and the King of Saudi Arabia has made this suggestion also. I find it interesting Kushner and Greenblatt, two people of Jewish heritage, are on the way to speak to 'many' about this plan.

Interesting about a temple.   I am wondering about the reliability of that print media, whoever it is, though.

I got into a discussion with the Jews (Judaism), several years back, about who they thought the many were - they said it referred to Jews.

[douggg]

15 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I would really, really, like to see the terms of that plan.

The most I hear speaking about the peace plan is Irvin Baxter, who is insistent that it is the covenant in Daniel 9:27.   But I don't agree with him on many many things.   And really don't like when he and Dave Robbins say God's word in bible prophecy says "...." and then give their interpretation, not actually God's word .   It is very misleading and irritating to me.   But I watch to see what is going on in the news, until I get disgusted with the self promotion.

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by douggg

[dhchristian]

On 7/29/2019 at 1:29 AM, Revelation Man said:

No U.S. President fits the descriptives here....this man has to be the E.U. President.

RM,

When You say things like this, you close the door to revelation. God can use whoever he pleases, and we need to remain diligent and watch. Human nature wants to put God and his revelation into a box that we can understand, but His plans are beyond our full comprehension. He is so much bigger than us.

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, douggg said:

 

I got into a discussion with the Jews (Judaism), several years back, about who they thought the many were - they said it referred to Jews.

I have heard that as well. It makes sense and certainly could be the fulfillment. Prophecy is Israelcentric.