BeauJangles Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 minute ago, alaric_w said: I am poor with patience. Sorry for the lack of it I'm not exactly the prince of patience either. No personal offense taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, alaric_w said: Are you thinking that being under the Holy Spirit no longer need to follow the basic 10 commandments? It is God (Holy Spirit is also God) who gave the 10 commandments. An illustration. In the old, God draw a line on the floor and we have to try our best to walk along the line without stepping out. In the new, the line is remove and Holy Spirit carries us to do the impossible.(Do you think the Holy Spirit will lead us into sin?). To understand this, you will need to have the Holy Spirit and experience life with him. Please reread my post you have not understood what I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaric_w Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 81 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 106 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/10/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Who me said: Which means the law is still valid and inforce. We may be freed from the legal requirement to obey, instead we have the moral obkigation as a mark of our love for Jesus to obey. By the way, sorry for my comment. Yes the law is still valid and in force. But there is a change. In the old covenant, if you do not obey, God will punish and curse the law breaker. Everyone obeyed God out of fear. (Under old covenant) Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Deuteronomy 5:9 the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me In the new covenant, God has forgiven all our sins (past, present and future). Even when we sinned we are still saved (salvation cannot be lost by our actions), God still blesses and love us. It is his love that causes us to love him back and unknowingly keep his law. (We keep the law by not focusing on the do and don't, rather we keep the law by flowing with the Holy Spirit) (In the new covenant) 1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. Ephesians 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. Hebrews 8:12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more. There is a great change before and after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ Edited July 31, 2019 by alaric_w 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovethelord Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 667 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 1,540 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 Hi Tzephanyahu, Hope below further clarifies: Mark Chapter 2 is about Jesus' controversy with the religious leaders who wanted Him to compromise and mix his message and ministry with theirs, but He refused to do so. Controversy over fasting and the Sabbath led Jesus to offer two parables to illustrate that just as new, unshrunk cloth cannot coexist with an old garment, the kingdom of God cannot be regarded merely as a patch over the regulations of the Mosaic law and extra biblical traditions. New wine vs. old wineskins illustrates the same truth—that Jesus brings a new era with new ways. In my first response I only used one of the parables Mark 2:22. Here are both parables together: Mark 2:21-22, “Besides, who would patch old clothing with new cloth? For the new patch would shrink and rip away from the old cloth, leaving an even bigger tear than before. “And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. For the wine would burst the wineskins, and the wine and the skins would both be lost. New wine calls for new wineskins.” Using the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge is also helpful in cross checking other places in the bible to cross reference verses etc.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 Thanks @lovethelord for replying. I understand your point of view on the matter. However, please bear with my response... We can hopefully all agree that moving away from Torah for the Jews would be a dramatic change. In fact, we could argue that such an enticement to move away from Torah would be inviting a lawful execution. If the Lord was saying to now ignore Torah, He would be instantly giving His detractors enough rope to hang Him with (which they still didn't have at the time of crucifixion). The Lord would also be contradicting His sermons, admonitions and even lose many followers and disciples in the process, as one was a zealot for Yahweh. Yet no one could say anything bad against the Lord - even though some tried desperately. So then, are we to think that such a dramatic change, which contradicts all the words of Yahweh and all the lessons of Israel's past, would be taught to us so briefly? If that's the case, isn't it very dismissive and off-the-cuff. Has such a dramatic change been authorised with just two simple analogies? I don't think so. I think we need to consider this soberly: If such a dramatic change was going to be authorised by the Lord, I don't think He would say it casually, off-the-cuff, in shorthand or in an analogy. I think He would say it clearly, definitively and repetitively - like He did with the message to "Repent". And what is it to repent? How do you know what to repent of and turn to, without Torah? Before the Gospels were written and the letters of Paul were collated - how did the followers and disciples know? Love & Shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCowboy Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 213 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 303 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 The law, to us in the new covenant, is like a textbook to learn God's word and his ways. It teaches us how God wants us to live and treat one another. Grace is his abundant love and forgiveness of our failure to fully comply. Noone can fully obey the law, we are infallible, man has proven this throughout the bible. We most certainly cannot reach the Heavenly Kingdom without the covenant of Grace. Just my two bits, JJ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovethelord Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 667 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 1,540 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 Hi Tzephanyahu, The Torah ie: “the Law” was given to the Israelites not Christians since he wasn’t physically on the scene yet. They were good in that it pointed people to Christ, showed us how to worship our Lord and atone for sin etc.. It is not used rightly when it is taught as a way of earning salvation. Believers are now under the Law of Christ which fulfills all these commandments: Galatians 6:2, “Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.” Matthew 22:37-40, “And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” Romans 7:4, “Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God…” Romans 7:6, “But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.” 1Timothy 1:8-11, “Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. 22 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said: So then, are we to think that such a dramatic change, which contradicts all the words of Yahweh and all the lessons of Israel's past, would be taught to us so briefly? If that's the case, isn't it very dismissive and off-the-cuff. Has such a dramatic change been authorised with just two simple analogies? I don't think so. Jesus in His wisdom gives us many examples and teachings in the bible of what it takes to become a citizen of His Kingdom. The parable I posted ie: Mark 2:21-22 were only two verses that I supplied. The religious leaders (experts in the Law of Moses) were always waiting for Jesus to say something they could use against him (Luke 11:53-54). By speaking in Parables Jesus was giving understanding to those with willing ears. Remember, the religious leaders were constantly rejecting Him so he began to speak in Parables so that those who were willing to hear His deep truths would listen. I'm a Christian with a willing heart and even I have had to study some of these parables myself to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, alaric_w said: By the way, sorry for my comment. Yes the law is still valid and in force. But there is a change. In the old covenant, if you do not obey, God will punish and curse the law breaker. Everyone obeyed God out of fear. (Under old covenant) Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Deuteronomy 5:9 the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me In the new covenant, God has forgiven all our sins (past, present and future). Even when we sinned we are still saved (salvation cannot be lost by our actions), God still blesses and love us. It is his love that causes us to love him back and unknowingly keep his law. (We keep the law by not focusing on the do and don't, rather we keep the law by flowing with the Holy Spirit) (In the new covenant) 1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. Ephesians 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. Hebrews 8:12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more. There is a great change before and after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ Old vs New......please check this out...... https://escapetoreality.org/2011/10/11/old-vs-new/#prettyPhoto Edited July 31, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted July 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: Old vs New......please check this out...... Nice! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted July 31, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, BeauJangles said: Nice! TONS of great stuff at that site .....escape to reality.com........The ultimate nightmare for modern- day Judaizers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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