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Being a gun owner


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22 hours ago, Cletus said:

handguns of any caliber do not stop people high on PCP unless its a central nervous system shot, from here on out CNS.  center mass shots that do not hit the spine is a timer.  A CNS shot is a switch... they go down.  done and done.  a direct heart shot on an intruder does not make them stop, in fact they can still fight back for up to 45 seconds.  sometimes they go down, sometimes they do not, some are stopped from the shock of oh no i got shot.  a good many times it wont even put them down tho.  In fact handguns do not necessarily stop the threat sometimes even with multiple shots and they are sober, no drugs at all. 

:thumbs_up:
 

11 hours ago, Cletus said:

my grandaddy was a marine.  he used a ruger .22 pistol for Home defense, i think it was a mark 2 or a mark 3.  my aunt has it now.  putting the bullet where you want it is more important than power.

Former Marine also, and years ago, my son got me a 1947 .22 cal,High Standard, model HD-Military,
I keep in my shop. He can hit squirrels out of trees at fifty feet. Open sight.
My pocket carry is a 380, 24, 7.

SEE BELOW; caliber vs placement......

Dr. Sydney Vail is a trauma surgeon and one of the nation's leading authorities on tactical medicine and the care of gunshot victims. His articles—"9mm Vs. .40 Caliber" and "Stopping Power: Myths, Legends, and Realities"are some of the most popular and most controversial in the history of POLICE Magazine and PoliceMag.com.

The following is an excerpt of a longer interview covering tactical medicine, tourniquet use by officers, and wound ballistics that will be published in the January 2018 Police Magazine and on PoliceMag.com.

POLICE: What's the highest number of rounds you've seen shot into a person who's survived?

Vail: The largest number of bullet wounds has been 22. Some were just entry, some were entry/exits. But 22, I think, was my maximum number. It's not uncommon for me to get 8 or 10 or 12 wounds and people survive.

I got involved in wound ballistics and what it really took to stop a threat during residency in Philadelphia because I had a friend on the police force who lost his job for use of excessive force by shooting somebody, I think it was, 18 times, and I always thought, maybe he needed to shoot that person 18 times to stop the threat.

As a surgeon, I saw what bullets don't do to the human body, meaning they don't kill it, they don't just stop it...which is why I wrote that article about stopping power; it's really a myth. I know that the human body can tolerate many gunshots and still function so that the person is still a threat to the police officer. So I make it known that I am willing to help defend a police officer who is accused of excessive force based on the number of shots fired. If it's a clean shoot, I'm happy to review it. If I can agree with them after that review, then I'll be there to testify for them.

POLICE: Is there really a significant difference in terms of wound ballistics between a 9mm, .40, and .45?

Vail: Other than the size of the ballistic projectile, nope. Because unless you hit something vital, it doesn't matter what you hit them with. You could hit them with a .45 in the shoulder, they're gonna survive. You hit them with a 9mm in the shoulder, they're gonna survive. You hit them with a .22 in the brain they could die. So, stopping a threat really does not come down to caliber, it is shot placement.

Handguns are lousy stoppers; it doesn't matter the caliber, they are just not great at stopping threats. Because of the ballistics profile and the amount of energy that a rifle round carries with it and dumps into the body, a rifle is a much better instrument to stop a threat.

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Perhaps it is a time to reflect upon the events of this weekend to date in America. I credit all the self proclaiming and testifying Rambos here as being faster, better shots, and far more deadly armed than I am. And, I find today  that; gee I am not all that impressed with any of us.

I am more impressed with the remembrance of a friend's action under stress of attack, one that  simply put his hands behind his back  of his 80 year old five foot two frame and stood between himself and an intended victim of a large powerful young assailant while proclaiming Jesus as his Lord and savior and praying aloud for both assailant and victim.  That man is my "Rambo" of  trust and obedience to our mutual Lord God and savior Jesus. If there be heros of faith he is one that I have been privileged to know, admire for his certainty of courage in Christ Jesus, and learn from many times over.

It is him that I think of this day, one that needs to be a day  of prayer and perhaps even apology to God for pridefulness and  well perhaps foolishness, and one that is for weeping for  many a family that is decimated physically and devastated emotionally today, needing the community of Christ Jesus support  from  all of us.

Holy Spirit please restrain the evil ones. Lead me to stop any braggadocious prattle about prowness in combat and in self defense and instead turn to you in prayer for my eternal soul. Please bring many "little" comforters to America this day.

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Guest PinkBelt
31 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Perhaps it is a time to reflect upon the events of this weekend to date in America. I credit all the self proclaiming and testifying Rambos here as being faster, better shots, and far more deadly armed than I am. And, I find today  that; gee I am not all that impressed with any of us.

I am more impressed with the remembrance of a friend's action under stress of attack, one that  simply put his hands behind his back  of his 80 year old five foot two frame and stood between himself and an intended victim of a large powerful young assualant while proclaiming Jesus as his Lord and savior and praying aloud for both assailant and victim.  That man is my "Rambo" of  trust and obedience to our mutual Lord God and savior Jesus. If there be heros of faith he is one that I have been privileged to know, admire for his certainty of courage in Christ Jesus, and learn from many times over.

It is him that I think of this day one that needs to be a day  of prayer and perhaps even apology to God for pridefulness and  well perhaps foolishness, and one that is for weeping for  many a family that is decimated physically and devastated emotionally today, needing the community of Christ Jesus support  from  all of us.

Holy Spirit please restrain the evil ones. Lead me to stop any braggadocious prattle about prowness in combat and in self defense and instead turn to you in prayer for my eternal soul. Please bring many "little" comforters to America this day.

I'm sure more guns are the solution. We all know Texas is infamous for it's restrictive laws on carrying firearms around.

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15 hours ago, PinkBelt said:

I don't even know how to respond to a person who tells me complete context and study are not necessary. The voices in your head are not in any shape or form parallel to, nor a suitable replacement for God's word.

From what I've seen, most Christians believe and act as though there are some questions and directions in life where God will use scripture in an individual way to speak to individual Christians.  Take for instance a few Christians about to graduate high school and pondering college or trade school or employment.   As part of their meditation and seeking direction, God will likely use a combination of circumstance and other things perhaps including bringing some passage of scripture to their attention.  God might lead one across the passages dealing with Daniel and his friends essentially on a free ride scholarship and speak to their heart to go in that direction.  God might lead another to see that Paul made a living at times as a tentmaker and speak to their hearts to learn a trade.   God might lead still another across the disciples before the Sanhedrin where they are called uneducated men.  I usually do not question such testimonies and complain about using such passages out of context (though they are strictly speaking).   Most Christians usually do not condemn such use of scripture (especially if other circumstances lead that way as well).   However, few Christians would take them seriously if they tried to use those verses to apply to all other Christians with regard to career choices.

I was laying out the difference between God giving guidance to a particular person for a particular situation or direction in their life and someone who claims to speak for God to all Christians.   Most Christians I know make a distinction between personal reading and meditation for guidance in their lives versus deep and complete study for teaching and instruction.   There are many threads on this site (and other sites) where someone asks how to do Bible reading.  The responses usually include the entire range of advice from "read a few verses and meditate on them" to "read the entire bible, study it, and use other reference materials to learn more about the historical, linguistic, and other contexts to better understand it".    I've yet to hear any Christian condemn daily meditation on a single passage of scripture as "listening to voices in your head" even though little effort at complete study and context is made.  Not every Christian is going to read the Bible in Hebrew and Greek and spend hours per day studying scripture and biblical history.  Those who do are a blessing for us all.  Many Christians read a passage of scripture as a daily part of their prayer and devotion times rather than having a bunch of lexicons, bible dictionaries, and commentaries open each time they have their devotions.  

I've heard countless testimonies over the years of Christians saying how God taught them something through a particular passage that changed something in their lives.  I've heard many Christians whose devotional reading consists of meditating on particular passages of scripture.  It is not necessary to spend weeks or months or years doing a complete study on something for God to speak to one's heart about something.  I know many Christians who haven't read the Bible through yet.  I don't tell them God cannot speak to them in some way through what they have read for changing things in their lives, but I do not have full confidence in their theological conclusions when they pull verses out of isolation.

Daily personal reading and meditation on scripture does not require complete study and context for God to use scripture in some Christians' lives.  Countless Christians over the years testify to this.  I daresay that most Christians can point to something they learned from scripture that changed their lives when they were new believers and had not even come close to reading the entire Bible or even knowing that much about it.  In contrast, claiming to speak for God to all Christians in all circumstances requires a much higher standard of study and authority and years or decades of practicing this.  It DOES require complete context and study to be taken seriously and have an effective ministry in teaching or instruction.

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2 hours ago, PinkBelt said:

I'm sure more guns are the solution. We all know Texas is infamous for it's restrictive laws on carrying firearms around.

Hi PinkBelt, and All,

Had the wonderful opportunity this AM  to see and talk with  the man I mentioned as being one of my heroes of faith of Jesus. He gave me the most powerful handshake about cracked my  own knuckles. He is in his nineties now. He spent 27 years in the mountain villages of Iran as a Christian missionary, surviving it without ever having any weapon beside the power of God the Holy Spirit restraining the evil ones.

 I am so very blessed to have my pathways cross with so many that are truly heroic in their walk with God.

Listened this morning to a prison chaplain chat about" what will we be remembered for fifty years from now?", and also the local Gideon representative missionary in our area, plus old friends, since I am back in my old turf and church for the week. God is Good.

Even as I reflect upon the question of what of my own walk, I am happy even in my lacking of personal merit, for God is  good. I find that I sure do not want to be remembered for having hit a bad guy center mass with a shotgun blast that was trying to take my earthly treasures.  

It is humbling  me to reflect on these things the treasures of this world are mine temporarily, and  only by the will of God. They all will burn away. So whether they are loss today at the hand of a bad guy, or  later at the sovereign providential decree of God does not matter.

More important is whether I do as God leads and do I read, think  pray, and act upon what I read, think, and pray about, or not. To kill over stuff, and to risk my own eternal extra shame on trying to protect it with force, - nope don't thing so. Not for me. Others may be led differently, but for me the only fear I ever had was of government ( under Obama), and when I think about it, God had placed even that  government over me.

So.... I am good with what the day brings, each day the provision from God is perfect for best meeting my needs. Praise God!

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12 hours ago, Cletus said:

my go to scattergun is a mossberg 500.  20" smoothbore.  i put the hogue overmold foregrip and 12" LOP stock on it with a slip on(airtech i think size small for that stock) recoil pad over the houge recoil pad.  I can shoot it all day long and any loads i want and have zero bruising or soreness in  my shoulder the next day.  some guys say its a sissy thing to do, but for 20 bucks i think its a great investment. 

idk if you know this or not but if you are going to spend that much on a suppressor make sure its a design that will not effect your point of impact.  very few manufactures make them to do this.  surefire is one company i have heard does achieve this.  do your homework before you buy.  I have plans to get one with a 762 warcomp (the three prong flash hider/compensator in one) for an AR308 build.  it attaches to the muzzle device like a QD.  on/off.  i think they make one for 300BLK/7.62x39 too.

My turkey gun is a Mossberg 500 with a 28" barrel and a full choke. Great gun for turkey, pump runs smoothly. I've never had to worry about not getting the round chambered, I can chamber the round with 2 fingers. The guns actually older then I am....it was my grandpa's pheasant gun way back when.

I'm not to concerned about changing point of impact on my 300 blackout if I get a silencer, as I imagine when I do I'll switch to subsonic ammo and that alone will change the point of impact, and I have a reflex site on it which is extremely easy to re-zero. I built it for hunting coyotes in a heavily wooded environment at close ranges. But I do plan on getting a nice one if and when I do.

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On 7/30/2019 at 2:30 PM, Figure of eighty said:

I've always been against guns (Personally, I don't care if the next person owns them) they've always rubbed me the wrong way personally...

However, since I'm gonna have a little one I feel I need to not only be able to protect him but myself as well.  If and when I get a gun it'll be a small one I'm comfy with

like a pistol or something.

 

Just wondering what are some steps in becoming a gun owner. 

Thanks

Keltec makes some slim small(not to small) pistols. when you buy ask who gives safety class, they usually give other classes also.

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On 7/30/2019 at 4:30 PM, Figure of eighty said:

I've always been against guns (Personally, I don't care if the next person owns them) they've always rubbed me the wrong way personally...

However, since I'm gonna have a little one I feel I need to not only be able to protect him but myself as well.  If and when I get a gun it'll be a small one I'm comfy with

like a pistol or something.

 

Just wondering what are some steps in becoming a gun owner. 

Thanks

I feel exactly the same way. I’m afraid of guns, but I think it’s important for THIS country (US) to always allow the citizens to own guns if they so choose. It prevents government takeover by force. The holocaust could never have happened if the Jews had guns. Js. 

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On 8/15/2019 at 11:48 PM, Kristin said:

I feel exactly the same way. I’m afraid of guns, but I think it’s important for THIS country (US) to always allow the citizens to own guns if they so choose. It prevents government takeover by force. The holocaust could never have happened if the Jews had guns. Js. 

Yeah i think everyone's right to bear arms should be respected.

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On 8/4/2019 at 10:49 AM, Neighbor said:

Hi PinkBelt, and All,

Had the wonderful opportunity this AM  to see and talk with  the man I mentioned as being one of my heroes of faith of Jesus. He gave me the most powerful handshake about cracked my  own knuckles. He is in his nineties now. He spent 27 years in the mountain villages of Iran as a Christian missionary, surviving it without ever having any weapon beside the power of God the Holy Spirit restraining the evil ones.

 I am so very blessed to have my pathways cross with so many that are truly heroic in their walk with God.

Listened this morning to a prison chaplain chat about" what will we be remembered for fifty years from now?", and also the local Gideon representative missionary in our area, plus old friends, since I am back in my old turf and church for the week. God is Good.

Even as I reflect upon the question of what of my own walk, I am happy even in my lacking of personal merit, for God is  good. I find that I sure do not want to be remembered for having hit a bad guy center mass with a shotgun blast that was trying to take my earthly treasures.  

It is humbling  me to reflect on these things the treasures of this world are mine temporarily, and  only by the will of God. They all will burn away. So whether they are loss today at the hand of a bad guy, or  later at the sovereign providential decree of God does not matter.

More important is whether I do as God leads and do I read, think  pray, and act upon what I read, think, and pray about, or not. To kill over stuff, and to risk my own eternal extra shame on trying to protect it with force, - nope don't thing so. Not for me. Others may be led differently, but for me the only fear I ever had was of government ( under Obama), and when I think about it, God had placed even that  government over me.

So.... I am good with what the day brings, each day the provision from God is perfect for best meeting my needs. Praise God!

Matthew 24:43 (KJV) But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

I'm not disputing or debating your personal convictions, we all have our views on personal defense and government tyranny. But I have to ask; how do you know those someone(s) [how many of them are there going to be?] that just broke into your house when you were sleeping is just after your "stuff"? It's known by criminals today that it's much easier not to get convicted in court if there's no witnesses to the crimes. Especially in this day and age, bad things happen to good people. I can be the bug or the windshield, I choose to be the windshield. Once a criminal gets through your last warning [your locked door], I don't have time or opportunity to play 20 questions and assess his [their] intentions. I will not allow any passivity or hesitation to linger protecting my loved ones from an immediate potential deadly threat either. 

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